Taper Help - Assisting Husband on Valium Taper

[[Ro...]]

I've been supporting my husband through his taper since late 2022.  It's been a very long and unexpected journey as he was only prescribed Klonopin for a 2 week period to address unexpected anhedonia brought on by 3 weeks of sleep deprivation after a terrible recovery from an outpatient procedure.  Following those 2 weeks his primary care doctor had him taper off over the following 4 weeks and life has not been the same since.  A week after his last dose he started having extreme physical symptoms of a panic attack but with no mental anxiety.  That began the journey finding the Ashton Manual and working the taper. 

He tapered steadily from February 2023 through September 2023 and had to hold for 6 months to allow his system to settle and to deal with changing jobs and some family drama (definitely not symptom free but we feel confident we know what his "base line" is on the benzo).  He just stepped down on March 5, 2024 to 16mg and has been holding there since as the withdrawal symptoms weren't great.  He seemed okay about a week in, but then there was some family drama with his brother which caused a lot of anxiety/frustration and the symptoms got worse.  His biggest struggle is overstimulation (comes with a very persistent jaw tremor), low energy/easily fatigued and added anxiety (especially when feeling like this will never be over).    

I updated the profile page with his history, other medications, taper symptoms, and I also attached his taper schedule through this recent reduction. 

We are looking for help with ideas/suggestions for how to best come at this taper in a way that keeps the symptoms minimized for the smoothest ride.  We've started looking at micro tapers, or something called the brass monkey method.  It can be so overwhelming.   

Edited April 23 by [Ro...]

[[Fa...]]

Hi, @[Ro...].  I'm sorry your husband, and yourself, are going through such a difficult time.  It sounds as if you have done your research.  I'm glad to hear he has held his dose steady when symptoms have intensified and has been able to maintain a relatively 'functional' life - including the ability to work.

I'm sorry to hear the cut and hold technique, via simple tablet splitting, is too much for your husband to handle.  I unfortunately was one of the injured/sensitive ones as well that could not handle this technique.

For many members who have sustained significant 'benzo injury' (like myself) - making smaller, more frequent, reductions in dose seems to be the best route.  There are a number of taper techniques to accomplish this goal.  It sounds as if this is the direction you all are leaning.  Do you have a technique in mind you feel most comfortable implementing (tablet/manufacturer liquid combination, shave/weigh tablet jeweler's scale, etc...)

[[Ro...]]

@[Fa...]  Thank you for the reply.  I'm sorry you've had to deal with this on a significant level.  Did you find that doing the smaller more frequent reductions lessened the intensity/duration of your symptoms?   

We've been looking at the micro dosing but weren't really sure what strategy to try; leaning towards shave/weigh tablets.  We do have a jeweler's scale I bought proactively but then he ended up holding for 6 months. Then when we did a 0.5mg drop and it hit him harder than we anticipated (but it was also coupled with some unexpected anxious life events which made the symptoms worse due to how anxiousness causes overstimulation).   So, we need to pivot on the strategy and make the cut amounts smaller... but how small and how often to start off with are the questions.  

I read some horror stories from those who tried switching over to a manufacturer liquid so not sure we want to try that.  He does have a lot of GI discomfort which ebbs & flows but is more intense after a step down and I would hate for the liquid to add to that GI discomfort.  That said, that's why we're thinking shaving the pills might be the best.  We're not worried about wasting some of the med.  We have a wonderful psychiatrist we're working with who is so supportive of the situation and trying different approaches.  

We just need to figure out what dose reduction amount/schedule to try.  Any suggested methods/approaches for us to consider and research are welcomed!  It can be so overwhelming sometimes to figure out where to start.  Our goal is to minimize symptoms as well as the energy drain that comes with a step down.  He's able to work (with breaks) but then has no fuel left in the tank to do something fun in the evenings or weekends which starts to become depressing.  Luckily he is self employed as a consultant in the IT world and has only one client that he works for part time so his schedule has a lot of flexibility and the work brings him joy and provides purpose which is so important.  

He also has the added complication of managing his ADHD & GAD through this process which both us and his psychiatrist believe is making the whole process more difficult.  Anxiety triggers so much overstimulation for him which brings out stronger symptoms and the ADHD leaves him with very low dopamine (despite taking his stimulant which has diminished efficacy due to the benzo issue).  Trying to figure this all out is like the most complicated puzzle EVER!  

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by [Ro...]

[[Ch...]]

51 minutes ago, [[R...] said:

@[Fa...]  Thank you for the reply.  I'm sorry you've had to deal with this on a significant level.  Did you find that doing the smaller more frequent reductions lessened the intensity/duration of your symptoms?   

We've been looking at the micro dosing but weren't really sure what strategy to try; leaning towards shave/weigh tablets.  We do have a jeweler's scale I bought proactively but then he ended up holding for 6 months. Then when we did a 0.5mg drop and it hit him harder than we anticipated (but it was also coupled with some unexpected anxious life events which made the symptoms worse due to how anxiousness causes overstimulation).   So, we need to pivot on the strategy and make the cut amounts smaller... but how small and how often to start off with are the questions.  

I read some horror stories from those who tried switching over to a manufacturer liquid so not sure we want to try that.  He does have a lot of GI discomfort which ebbs & flows but is more intense after a step down and I would hate for the liquid to add to that GI discomfort.  That said, that's why we're thinking shaving the pills might be the best.  We're not worried about wasting some of the med.  We have a wonderful psychiatrist we're working with who is so supportive of the situation and trying different approaches.  

We just need to figure out what dose reduction amount/schedule to try.  Any suggested methods/approaches for us to consider and research are welcomed!  It can be so overwhelming sometimes to figure out where to start.  Our goal is to minimize symptoms as well as the energy drain that comes with a step down.  He's able to work (with breaks) but then has no fuel left in the tank to do something fun in the evenings or weekends which starts to become depressing.  Luckily he is self employed as a consultant in the IT world and has only one client that he works for part time so his schedule has a lot of flexibility and the work brings him joy and provides purpose which is so important.  

He also has the added complication of managing his ADHD & GAD through this process which both us and his psychiatrist believe is making the whole process more difficult.  Anxiety triggers so much overstimulation for him which brings out stronger symptoms and the ADHD leaves him with very low dopamine (despite taking his stimulant which has diminished efficacy due to the benzo issue).  Trying to figure this all out is like this most complicated puzzle EVER!  

Hi. I was impressed by your detailed information!

One thing I noticed was inconsistent hold times during his last attempts to taper...

For me, it was important to keep things as steady and consistent as possible throughout my taper. Perhaps much less so than many, I did not let symptoms dictate my taper rate. I remained consistent, rolled with whatever came, and kept going.

I do realize that the trend of late is to "micro-taper," but I think, when it comes to the long half-life Valium, that people are getting bogged down with excruciatingly slow tapers that could safely be sped up. People tend to want to eliminate all discomfort before they move forward, and that's an unrealistic goal. In most cases, getting off of benzos is dreadfully uncomfortable, period. When using Valium, slowing it all down so dramatically seems often to do not much more than prolong the agony.

The Ashton method has been quite successful in getting people off of benzos. I believe your husband is at 16mg Valium. You might consider dropping just .5mg every 14th day or every 28th day. That is a slow and consistent taper.

[[Fa...]]

1 hour ago, [[R...] said:

Did you find that doing the smaller more frequent reductions lessened the intensity/duration of your symptoms?

Yes, I did.  I am doing much better and am fully functional while still reducing my diazepam dose.  Everyone is different though, and I have very demanding life circumstances with my business, and young family life, so I have to be cautious.  My functionality is far more important to me than my time spent on diazepam.