A challenge to everyone here

[[Jd...]]

And redevan.   Do I really NEED to come on here daily and every time a person asks a question say “you need to go to your dr to get that kind of advice “.   Pretty sure 99% of questions on here relate to some form of medical or mental health problem and people coming for advice which is freely given.    I don’t wanna waste my time to prove the hypocrisy.   Why are you not scouring through each and every cbd thc Amanita.   Maybe go back and look at that muscimol thread.  Tons of pages of responses.  How many people have asked “what’s your thoughts on _____ supplement.  Lithium orotate or well any of the thousands people have tried.  
the difference is y’all jump my shiot over b12???? B12???? Because I said keep doing what your dr prescribed for you to do???   A registered nurse after seeing a patients labs agrees with the dr and tells the patient to continue doing it.   WOAH HOLD ON!! Risky stuff there lol of all the info on here b12 which you CANNOT overdose on.  Can you say that about Amanita or lithium orotate ? Do you seriously not see my point or just arguin for the sake of arguin 

[[re...]]

@[Jd...] Well let's assume, as I do, that you really are a registered nurse (even though I know I don't really know). So I can understand how your reaction is necessarily to observe, diagnose (within limits) and (within limits) prescribe - and by prescribe I don't mean with a prescription pad, but I mean just telling patients what they need to do. Anyway, that pattern of observe-diagnose-prescribe is perfectly fine when you're at work, in the hospital, or in the doctor's office, or wherever you work. But not here, on line at Benzo Buddies. We cannot do that here. Are there some fine lines to be drawn? Of course. Every rule has some gray areas, some twilight zones where lines must be drawn. But the rule itself is necessary. I'm just having a hard time understanding why you're having such a hard time understanding this rule. What you're actually doing here, the polling you were trying to do, is not what I have a problem with - although I can't speak for the moderators. I don't know where they come down on all this, where they'd want to draw the line. Maybe they'd feel more comfortable if you just stopped gathering this data completely. I don't know. But my only problem is with the big commotion you're raising about the rule. I can't understand why you're doing that.

[[Jd...]]

Lol just looked at who even began the “has anyone taken muscimol” thread in alternative treatment    Smh yeah talk about irony.   
 

[[Jd...]]

My problem is.   My advice / prescribing was “keep following your drs regimen your b12 is fantastic” to her asking me to look at it.     This isn’t MY prescription I’m simply saying I agree with it.  Her dr chose the dose of b12 and how frequently to take it.    Seriously we can’t say we agree that a dr order is appropriate but we can chit chat about muscimol and weed on here 🙄 

 

[[re...]]

@[Jd...] So you're saying that you understand the rule against diagnosing and prescribing, but you don't believe you were actually doing that. Is that right?

[[Jd...]]

Anyways I give.  Fine fork it don’t get y’all’s iron levels checked I seriously don’t get paid to be here so shit sakes lol I was just tryin to pass some info before I write my success story because I’m 95% healed and forget about this benzo nightmare.    My purpose may be different than y’all’s.  This site is information sharing in my opinion.  Trial and error.  Learn from each other.  It’s why we have long winded discussions on MUSCIMOL.  We are all in this together because no one else will.     I do still feel I think iron plays a part in some people here.  I’ve found 5.    Look at the moderator of alternative therapies.  Having a mare.  It’s not really discussing anything that wasn’t discussed openly.  He thought his levels were good too.  Come to find out he’s in iron overload.   There’s no shame in finding out something new.  His dr lied to him.  Just like mine did.  Gave a bs excuse for why his labs were off.  Now he realizes he was mislead and this whole time he thought I was full of shit.  Nah.  Iron overload

its really retarded of y’all to even be mad.  Like you got this paradigm to defend. “NOOO NOOO I WILL NOT ACCEPT THAT I MIGHT HEAL FASTER IF I TAKE THIS INTO MY OWN HANDS!!!!

 

fine!!!! Jeeze suffer for decades if that’s what really makes you happy.   I’m mostly healed and feel others could learn from what I learned but if you want to live in this paradigm that nothing can help you.  How dare me disrupt your happiness and inject some ideas of hope

please do forgive me 

[[re...]]

@[Jd...] Well, I don't object to what you were trying to do, as far as the survey goes. As I said, I can't speak for the moderators. But I thought it was an interesting idea you had. And I'm not angry, not even when you call me "Professor" - because, actually, I was a college professor, for years. But you can't know whether that's true or not, can you? I think you're an interesting guy with good insights. All I was trying to say is turn it down a notch, try to understand what was being asked of you, and just work it out - instead of going on the warpath. You know, that's one of the long-term benzo-withdrawal symptoms, I think. And I've said it many times on this forum: when we're going through benzo withdrawal and recovery, we don't act, and we don't react: we over-react. I've had to deal with that myself. But it's slowly getting better, I think. Anyway, get back to those patients, Jdoe. Talk to you later.

[[Na...]]

6 hours ago, [[J...] said:

?????  This site is devoted towards giving medical and mental health advice isnt It.   We commonly discuss using cbd for pain , magnesium for sleep , and people are always asking medical advice about how fast they should taper and we quote a dr dr Ashton but often give our own opinions on if that did or didn’t work for them and when to hold or continue. At least the old board did.   So with the new board anytime someone asks a mental health question or asks if it’s safe to taper off their 5mg of klonopin in 2 weeks like their dr said  we should respond “you need to speak with your mental health professional” because if we contradict what their dr said that is definitely giving medical advice.  Maybe the new board is different ? Because I see a lot of advice given on here which directly contradicts what their own dr or psychiatrist says to do.    
not being a jerk but asking me not to give advice on VITAMINS. When I am a registered nurse is pretty hypocritical when tons of people with zero medical background tell people to disregard what their primary care physician says.  Isn’t it ?

I can't add much that Redevan hasn't already said.

The site policy is quite plain. You are allowed to relate your experiences. You are allowed to relate studies or articles on the web. You can say things like "I've seen other members who tried X and got Y results", etc. etc.

You are not allowed to be prescriptive and essentially "sound like a doctor". Such as, reading someone's blood labs and replying "The only change I would make is switch to a non methyl b12 and folate to see if that decreases anxiety". That is directly prescriptive in nature.

There are lots of reasons for this policy, most have been discussed. The site might incur liability if someone takes your prescription and has an adverse result. Probably more importantly, ultimately no one knows who you are and whether you are qualified to make these direct recommendations. Maybe you're a doctor. Maybe you're an RN. Or maybe you just play one on the internet. Since we can't establish your qualifications we can't allow people to make pronouncements that imply they are qualified.

Contrast this with making comments about your own personal experiences - you are by definition eminently qualified to talk about that.  

In any case, as they say "Them's the rules". This has been site policy for a long time. This isn't just me talking, this thread was noticed by several long standing moderators and brought to my attention. 

Benzo Buddies has been around for several decades. This has been a well establish policy and it really isn't open for discussion.

Edited September 15, 2023 by [Na...]

[[Na...]]

27 minutes ago, [[J...] said:

Lol just looked at who even began the “has anyone taken muscimol” thread in alternative treatment    Smh yeah talk about irony.   
 

Yes, that would be me.

Asking if anyone has had any experiences taking musimol isn't prescriptive. And it isn't asking anyone to be prescriptive. It's asking for their experiences. Which is explicitly the type of thing site policy encourages.

[[Na...]]

20 minutes ago, [[J...] said:

I’m mostly healed and feel others could learn from what I learned but if you want to live in this paradigm that nothing can help you.  How dare me disrupt your happiness and inject some ideas of hope

please do forgive me 

It's perfectly fine for you to describe what you've done, how you think it's helped you, and what your results are.

That is specifically endorsed in the guidelines. By all means, do that.

 

[[Jd...]]

So Nathan what you’re saying is I shouldn’t be able to find any advice given on this board or the old board.   When someone talks about a problem or asks advice.  Those are the two most common posts here) you’re telling me I shouldn’t be able to find ANY advice given like “you should try taking _____”.  Or that.   Because if I were to post I really am having a hard time sleeping “.  The person responding HAS TO say “what works for me is….”   They never say things like “maybe you should try cbd or some sativa blends of thc”.   No one ever gives advice they ONLY post pub med citations or tells their own personal experience with themselves WITHOUT telling what the person who is suffering might try?

do you seriously think that’s been done consistently  Seriously 

[[Na...]]

34 minutes ago, [[J...] said:

So Nathan what you’re saying is I shouldn’t be able to find any advice given on this board or the old board.   When someone talks about a problem or asks advice.  Those are the two most common posts here) you’re telling me I shouldn’t be able to find ANY advice given like “you should try taking _____”.  Or that.   Because if I were to post I really am having a hard time sleeping “.  The person responding HAS TO say “what works for me is….”   They never say things like “maybe you should try cbd or some sativa blends of thc”.   No one ever gives advice they ONLY post pub med citations or tells their own personal experience with themselves WITHOUT telling what the person who is suffering might try?

do you seriously think that’s been done consistently  Seriously 

 

No, I don't think things have been done perfectly consistently. This is a board of fallible human beings that make mistakes - both as regular members and as moderators. So you will no doubt fine cases where someone stepped over the line and wasn't called out.  Also this sort of thing is very much a judgement call. It's hard to draw a bright line and people will vary over where it falls.

But your language in this thread was egregious enough that it caught several people's attention. The more flagrant the violation, the more likely it is to be called out. That's just the nature of things.

You really need to accept this and move on.

Edited September 15, 2023 by [Na...]

[[Jd...]]

https://naturobest.com/blogs/fertility-preconception/does-methylfolate-cause-anxiety
 

here’s an article.   It’s just the first one I found to end this ridiculous debate on how methylated b vitamins cause anxiety in some people 

If that article isn’t credible enough please do tell me so I can find a better one.   
 

do I now get a get out of jail free card and we can say I wasn’t talking out my arse? Maybe my advice was … gulp … correct ?   Or is that too early 

[[Na...]]

Just now, [[J...] said:

https://naturobest.com/blogs/fertility-preconception/does-methylfolate-cause-anxiety
 

here’s an article.   It’s just the first one I found to end this ridiculous debate on how methylated b vitamins cause anxiety in some people 

If that article isn’t credible enough please do tell me so I can find a better one.   
 

do I now get a get out of jail free card and we can say I wasn’t talking out my arse? Maybe my advice was … gulp … correct ?   Or is that too early 

 

Posting that article is perfectly fine. But you are still not allowed to read someone's lab report and essentially say - based on your labs you should do X. Is that clear enough for you?

This discussion needs to end. 

[[Jd...]]

When I said that she should follow her drs advice and her b12 levels looked good and if anything I’d change it would just be to non methylated b12 which is hydroxycobalmin (I don’t need a link do I?).  And folinic acid since it also is active yet non methylated.    
i have now posted links on the fact that there is no toxic burden of excess b12.   I have posted links to showing the benefit of homocysteine levels as a better indicator of b12 status in face of supplementation and now have provided a link showing that yes indeed some people do not react well with mythlcobalmin 

Is there any other opinions that I’ve share that were flagged that I need to find citations for ?

jeeze

[[re...]]

@[Jd...] It is a lot like walking a tightrope sometimes, isn't it? But stick around. I think you have a lot to offer. Only, in this case I think you're over-reacting. It happens to the best of us.

Hasta luego, caballeros

Edited September 15, 2023 by [re...]

[[Jd...]]

From the moderators last comment you can’t give advice even if you have citations and links now to back up your opinion.   Nah I wouldn’t want to give people hope and hopefully help anyone in here.   Seems that’s the last thing on the agenda in here. 
good luck. Uhhh trying NOT? To heal y’all 

peace 

[[Ki...]]

Well, it depends. Each individual is unique.   this is  from that very article and  from what I have seen posted here  or experienced  myself  sadly you have no idea of methylation status of the person you were advising .....The methy groups help lower homocysteine levels in many people...... Sadly   there are several problems for your  general advice.  And personally Iron increase my methyfolate levels thus more anxiety for me.  so its very  individual

Edited September 15, 2023 by [Ki...]

[[Co...]]

Hello @[Jd...]

The relevant rule:

Quote

Please adopt a non-prescriptive writing style. Relating your experiences, stating options, or posting suggestions of what other members might do are all welcome. However, advising members of what they should or must do is against the ethos of the BenzoBuddies Community. Nor should you attempt to 'diagnose' medical problems or suggest medical treatments to other members. This policy also applies to members with medical qualifications. A more detailed explanation of this policy can be found in our Guidelines Regarding the Giving of Medical Advice document.

The linked document from the above rule is under review - an updated version will be available soon - but that version still applies and might help you better understand.

BenzoBuddies is a peer-support community. BB and its members are not replacements for professional healthcare. This distinction is eroded if members employ prescriptive language. These rules apply to not just lay people, but all members, including doctors, pharmacists, pharmacologists, nurses, and all healthcare professionals, irrespective if we have verified their credentials or not.

Potential liability is not really the issue - BB as an entity and its Team would be almost certainly protected. Rather, it is just not proper for BB (or its members) to attempt to replace the patient-doctor relationship.

Nearly any subject might be discussed at BB, but the tone should be discussional in nature, relaying personal experiences, or the approaches and experiences you have noticed from other members, linking to authoritative sources, etc.

@[Na...] has volunteered his time to help. If not for him, the Long Haulers group would not exist. He and @[re...] have attempted to advise you of how we operate around here. I suggest you take notice, because as Nathan suggested, this rule is a policy position and is not open for discussion.

[[Jd...]]

Please see the post “please help heart stuff 8 years out” where a person is actually having bad symptoms.  HEART / CARDIAC symptoms.  It’s not as if they are asking advice on a ..b12..level.    This person is having CARDIAC SYMPTOMS.    Many of those symptoms actually sound like a fib to this not so knowledgeable person 🙄.  But he was given the advice that it’s most likely because of stress and the cessation of nicotine.  
let’s see I get my shiot jumped for giving advice on a vitamin b12 level.  Fyi for reference I could have told her to take 10 times the dose and NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN LOL it’s water soluble (see my link for if you can OD on b12 lol).  And here we got someone giving medical advice to a person having some pretty significant cardiac issues.  if I was wrong and gave the wrong advice. Nothing would happen !!! However if this person actually is in afib and here you are telling them it’s prob stress and nicotine cessation. Guess what they may DIE!!   But that’s ok! Cause you have posted a lot more than me and we gonna look the other way right !
 

but now if I said “I think you should have a heart monitor to make sure” I’m dispensing advice. 
sounds to me like the only thing allowable in here is giving advice based on post count.    Now if I had been posting on here for 8 years would this have been an issue?

didn’t think so!

stop being hypocrites then and giving medical advice too!!!!

Edited September 16, 2023 by [Jd...]

[[Jd...]]

And Nathan go look at the post “pondering a solution”. 
you literally are giving doseage advice. “If I was you I’d take 1mg/day etc etc 

LITHIUM DOSEAGE ADVICE!!!! lol and here a register nurse is in trouble for offering advice on a vitamin with no kind risk of toxicity WITH LABS to go off of 🤣

hypocrite of the year award 🥇 

[[Na...]]

You got me @[Jd...]. Maybe I did step over the line there. I'll take your admonition and try to do better.

Now if you will just do the same and move on maybe we can get back to trying to help each other rather than trying to "win" some petty argument.

I'm begging you man, let it go.

[[Jd...]]

I’m being sarcastic an an asshole.  I thought your advice was good advice.  People come here FOR advice.  They come here for MEDICAL and MENTAL HEALTH advice.  Granted we shouldn’t be diagnosing fn cancer and pretending we can diagnose complicated diseases here. But there’s no dr on the planet who will give lithium orotate advice.  So really I’m just being a smartass as to basically say I think it was a little fkd up to jump on me to tell a girl her b12 is fine and yes I did say SOME (not all) people have issues with methyl b vitamins and consider tryin the other non methyl forms.  Maybe it’s because this is new and not talked about stuff on here “methyl vitamins vs non methyl? Wtf is cyanocobalmin vs adenocobalmin vs hydroxy etc etc etc and maybe it seemed it was crossing the line because no one talks about this stuff here and there is that fear of the unknown “what if he tells her to take this stuff and she dies” when the reality is in my background I know. “The shits just a water soluble vitamin. NOTHING can happen.  I could literally make my cat eat a trash can full of it and prob nothing happen.  so yeah I will say I became a bit unhinged at the idea that giving vitamin advice was flagged material when everywhere you look , let’s be realistic..  We ARE ALL giving some medical advice and or sharing our experiences as to ensenuate and evoke an opinion from the original poster. 

I will agree to drop it but I stand firm that I think it was uncalled for to be called out on vitamin b 12 advice when clearly we can see we all are giving advice on here.  But it’s dropped
 

[[Jd...]]

Please whoever is able to.  Just delete this whole damn thread.  It went completely sideways from the original intention.   I’m not sure how to relay this but I have a good reason to believe I would say I’d guess 20% (not all) of the protracted members are actually a vitamin or mineral imbalance and think it’s something that it isn’t.  I am one of those people. I have found 5 others too right on this very board.  With that said in order of importance I think it is iron that is most commonly overlooked.  I do think b12 and folate have the possibility of causing similar symptoms however for the last several years drs have become more aware of what b12 and folate deficiencies do and so there is more wide spread testing where as iron requires an entire panel and I’m finding out a lot of drs really don’t even know what they are looking at or for and so they just don’t order it.  I feel that if every single last person in the protracted group were made to get an iron panel 10-20 would show severe issues and thus be healed when it was corrected.  Obviously I can’t prove that and hence why it’s a theory.  But this thread went way off in left field and far far from its intended purpose so please just delete it all

Edited September 16, 2023 by [Jd...]

[[re...]]

@[Jd...] - Actually, I'd like to continue the discussion, if you don't mind. Let me ask you about iron. My understanding has been that, except for women of childbearing age, most people don't have to worry about low iron levels unless they've been donating blood, for example, or lost a lot of blood in some accident, or perhaps surgery. Otherwise, the body normally recycles the iron from the breakdown of red blood cells. In fact, there is even a danger of having too much iron. Hemochromatosis is especially prevalent among people of northern European ancestry, especially men. So, aside from blood loss, what else might cause low iron levels?

Edited September 16, 2023 by [re...]