Too much meddling and moving here--gonna take toys, go home for now

[[ju...]]

A post about 12-step attitudes toward benzo 'accidental addiction' was moved to an obscure section of this board. Almost every day I post, some so and so with self-invested authority goes and moves it. My intellect *has been*, and remains, diminished from the benzo-go-round, while my moods have been laid wide open to wider and faster variability--I may be too crazy to post here, so I"m  gonna go on and find someplace at which I might find a broader welcome.

 

Do the monitors here have nothing more to do than to delete, move and flag? (Sounds not unlike the 12-step idea of Fix, Manage, and Control to me at the moment.)

 

jdixon

[[Be...]]

The movement of the thread is not a reflection on you or the value of your post, juliad.  The (volunteer) monitors are charged with the responsibility of helping the forum run smoothly which sometimes includes moving threads to a more appropriate board.  I hope you will come back and if not, that you find a forum which better suits your needs.  Take care. 

[[Ho...]]

I dont think it's anything more than them trying to keep the board organized. Nothing at all to do with you. I'm sorry you don't feel welcome here I hope you still manage to get some good support!

 

Holly

[[St...]]

A post about 12-step attitudes toward benzo 'accidental addiction' was moved to an obscure section of this board. Almost every day I post, some so and so with self-invested authority goes and moves it. My intellect *has been*, and remains, diminished from the benzo-go-round, while my moods have been laid wide open to wider and faster variability--I may be too crazy to post here, so I"m  gonna go on and find someplace at which I might find a broader welcome.

 

Do the monitors here have nothing more to do than to delete, move and flag? (Sounds not unlike the 12-step idea of Fix, Manage, and Control to me at the moment.)

 

jdixon

 

Hi juliad

 

I sent you a PM with a convenient link to the thread that was moved, I'm not sure if you have seen it yet. I'm sorry about this and I understand and apologize if you feel victimized, but as Beeper and Holly said it's not a refection on you. We understand that it's easy to get confused during benzo withdrawal so we try to keep the board in place. The "Withdrawal and Recovery Support" board is often the most used and we like to keep it clear for topics that need more severe attention as this area of the board gets filled very fast. I know you're going through a very rough time and I hope you continue to post to us with any help and support you need, but please understand that if we don't try to keep some kind of order, we may miss being able to supply the proper attention a person may be seeking.

 

 

Star  

[Guest [Si...]]

I dont think it's anything more than them trying to keep the board organized.

 

[[am...]]

soberrecovery is a haven for 12 step madness, the cult following is strong there...............nonetheless, 12 step is absolutely inappropriate for benzo withdrawal 

[[am...]]

Their ad proudly announces...."70% recovery!" Yikes. 

 

 

They have a failure/drop out rate of about 90%,

 

so of the 10% who actually buy into the cult and live by it with affirmation recitation every day, higher powers and sponsors 70% stay off the DoC by replacing it with cult rituals.

 

That basically means that out of every 100 people who walk through the door, 7 are sucked in and don't drink.  Very effective.  I'm sure the same percentage of users would wise up eventually any way.

 

It's a self serving cult and nothing more in my opinion.

 

 

 

agent orange has a nice piece on it

 

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

[[Ho...]]

Not meaning to turn this thread into a soberrecovery thread,  but I checked it out and this is the first topic that caught my eye:

 

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/newcomers-recovery/230470-taking-anti-anxiety-medication-klonopin.html

 

Sounds like quite a few of these people are on a benzo. Some good advice here and there but unfortunately no one to tell them "No, don't do it." 

[[am...]]

Not meaning to turn this thread into a soberrecovery thread,  but I checked it out and this is the first topic that caught my eye:

 

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/newcomers-recovery/230470-taking-anti-anxiety-medication-klonopin.html

 

Sounds like quite a few of these people are on a benzo. Some good advice here and there but unfortunately no one to tell them "No, don't do it." 

 

that site won't let you give advice.

 

it's a cult.  it might be better to deactivate that link lest BB is seen to be connected to step programs and cultism.

[[Ma...]]

Their ad proudly announces...."70% recovery!" Yikes.  

 

 

They have a failure/drop out rate of about 90%,

 

so of the 10% who actually buy into the cult and live by it with affirmation recitation every day, higher powers and sponsors 70% stay off the DoC by replacing it with cult rituals.

 

That basically means that out of every 100 people who walk through the door, 7 are sucked in and don't drink.  Very effective.  I'm sure the same percentage of users would wise up eventually any way.

 

It's a self serving cult and nothing more in my opinion.

 

 

 

agent orange has a nice piece on it

 

 

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness.html

 

I find that very offensive...

A 12 step program has SAVED MY LIFE, not from prescribed meds, but from the junk I was wasting my life with..  How does that site get their B.S. "failure rate" statistics?  I guess they go and follow up on every addict/alcoholic that walks through the doors of the meetings?  That would be the only way to come up with ACCURATE numbers.

 

You also need to learn what the definition of "cult" is..."A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister"   whjile I can only speak for NA, there is NO religion in there...you can be an atheist and still practice the 12 steps.

 

So while you are offending me and Im sure others with yours untrue accusations about a program that absolutely saved my life, at least have the facts beforehand.

 

why you would want to bash any 12 step programs that have even helped ONE person get clean and save their life, I have no idea. But that to me sounds a lot like what you accused the programs of being; self serving.

[[Pa...]]

Not meaning to turn this thread into a soberrecovery thread,  but I checked it out and this is the first topic that caught my eye:

 

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/newcomers-recovery/230470-taking-anti-anxiety-medication-klonopin.html

 

Sounds like quite a few of these people are on a benzo. Some good advice here and there but unfortunately no one to tell them "No, don't do it." 

 

that site won't let you give advice.

 

it's a cult.  it might be better to deactivate that link lest BB is seen to be connected to step programs and cultism.

 

Hello amano,

 

The link won't be deactivated because it conforms with our posting guidelines.  12 Step programs are internationally known, recognized and accepted, so their discussion here is welcome.  Whether or not you agree with their methodology, they do have success and they're pretty much the only game in town for those who suffer from addiction. 

 

 

[[am...]]

I find that very offensive...

A 12 step program has SAVED MY LIFE, not from prescribed meds, but from the junk I was wasting my life with..  How does that site get their B.S. "failure rate" statistics?  I guess they go and follow up on every addict/alcoholic that walks through the doors of the meetings?  That would be the only way to come up with ACCURATE numbers.

 

You also need to learn what the definition of "cult" is..."A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister"   whjile I can only speak for NA, there is NO religion in there...you can be an atheist and still practice the 12 steps.

 

So while you are offending me and Im sure others with yours untrue accusations about a program that absolutely saved my life, at least have the facts beforehand.

 

why you would want to bash any 12 step programs that have even helped ONE person get clean and save their life, I have no idea. But that to me sounds a lot like what you accused the programs of being; self serving.

 

I'm sorry if you find my opinion offensive.  You might not want to read my other thoughts on 12 step programs, as they are thoroughly critical of it.  But of course, everyone has a choice to hand over themselves to any program they wish, just as I have the choice to be critical of it.

 

I'm not going to debate the semantics of "cult" with you, you took the meaning that best suits your purpose, there are many definitions.

 

---

 

A little info for those who are unsure of what 12 steps involve.  I'll add why I am not a believer in this.  Just my opinion, no one has to like it.

 

 

THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS/NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS

 

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become

unmanageable.

 

Yes my life had become unmanageable, not because of alcohol and drugs, but because of the choices I made.  Everytime a snorted a line, popped a pill or slammed a beer, I had the choice to stop, I knew what I was doing, I knew the dangers and I willingly continued on that path.  I enjoyed it and did it of my own free will.  I will never blame anything else, no person, let alone a substance for my CONTINUED actions.  What I did whilst wasted I can partially attribute to the mix of toxins I had put in me, but ultimately the responsibility lay with me.

 

 

 

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to

sanity.

 

There is no higher power than oneself as far as I am concerned.  I have free will and intelligence.  I know what I am doing and am the only one capable of changing my actions voluntarily.  

 

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God (or Higher Power HP, was changed to include atheists) as we understood Him.

 

I could never, even if I believed in some higher power, hand over responsibility for my actions.  It would just be a crutch to blame my shortcomings on.  Every failure I made could be attributed to a weakness in the higher power.  I would rather be responsible and answerable to myself.  If I screw up, I pay, if I succeed I reap the rewards.

 

 

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

 

I don't need to do this, I know what my shortcomings are and deal with them appropriately.

 

5. Admitted to God (or HP), to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature

of our wrongs.

 

I cannot see the point in this.  The only person who needs to know is oneself. It is oneself who has to deal with it, how can another person or a HP directly change ones behavior and thought processes?

 

 

6. Were entirely ready to have God (or HP) remove all these defects of character.

 

If this is supposed to be about oneself, why must a HP be required to do all the work.  If the individual doesn't take responsibility then they haven't changed, they are relying on something else to make them into a certain kind of person, relying on something else is just like relying on drugs or alcohol to overcome problems.  The problems need dealing with, not circumventing.

 

 

7. Humbly asked Him (or HP) to remove our shortcomings.

 

I have the same view of this as I do no.6

 

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make

amends to them all.

 

Why, perhaps some people were at fault too.  I harmed people who were well deserving of being harmed, I apologize to those who get the brunt of my shortcomings, but for the most part I control myself as to avoid these situations for the most part.

 

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do

so would injure them or others.

 

Same as 9/.

 

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly

admitted it.

 

If the underlying problem has been dealt with and not handed over to a HP, then there should be no need to keep a running inventory of rights vs wrongs.  We aren't perfect and should expect a smattering of wrongs along the way.  It's no big deal, there's no need to keep punishing oneself for each indiscretion.

 

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with

God (or HP), as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us

and the power to carry that out.

 

No way I could do this, I am a free entity and rely on the power of though and logic to get me through this life.  I will not hand over my life to something and let it control me.  I am in control of my own affairs and create my own destiny through my actions now.  I am more interest in having the power and the tools to get me where I want to be, not where something else takes me.

 

 

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to

carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our

affairs.

 

This whole system, seems to me, to be a replacement for the substance abuse, at every turn there is abdication of personal responsibility and a constant need to to fall back on some part of the ritual.

 

 

 

These are things that I just cannot accept.

 

 

 

Cogito ergo sum

 

and as such I am solely responsible for me.

 

[[BY...]]

We are in a fragile state while going through this process. Remember, the Buddie on the recieving end is feeling very much the same as you. When you decide to rebut someones opinion, try and do so in kind. Think of how you would like to be treated and reply with that thought in mind.

 

This is not to recite Forum Rules, but to serve as a reminder to you(me).http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9681.0

 

Behaviour

 

Trolls

 

If you visit any forum long enough, you will eventually come across a 'troll'. A troll is someone who seems to enjoy disrupting the forum's atmosphere. They can do this in quite a few different ways: by posting in a manner that is in direct conflict to the forum's philosophy; plastering the forum with random posts; being argumentative in posts; or very blatant disregard for forum rules.

 

We cannot stress enough that if you suspect someone is a troll, please do not engage them in any way. PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS! 

 

They revel in arguments and will do their best to entice you to join them. They gain satisfaction from taking valuable time away from the forum's true purpose. You cannot reason with a troll. You cannot sway a troll away from his or her argument. You cannot win against a troll, because it is the very attention you will be giving that they crave.

 

If you suspect someone is behaving in a troll-like manner, please either use the 'Report To Moderator' function, or send an Administrator or Moderator a PM to alert them to the behaviour.

 

 

Using the 'Report to Moderator' Function

 

The use of this function sends a copy of the post to a moderator-only board on the forum. Please use this feature anytime you have a concern about a post for any reason.

 

To use this feature, locate the 'report to moderator' link near the bottom right corner of each post. Click on the link. You may chose to type a comment in the text box or simply leave it blank. You must click on 'Submit' for the report to be sent to the moderators.

 

 

Using the 'Report to Admin' Function

 

If you receive a PM (Personal Message) that gives you cause for concern (for any reason), please use the 'Report to Admin' function (the Administrators and the Senior Developer are the recipients of such reports). You will find this link at the bottom-right corner on each and every PM you receive. When you use this function, you will be given the opportunity to add a comment about why you are reporting the PM. If you are in any doubt, we prefer that you send the report - a false alarm is preferable to us not receiving reports of problem PMs.

 

 

Be polite towards, and respectful of, your fellow Buddies. We do not tolerate attacks upon fellow members.

 

Any account that is created for the purposes of causing arguments and/or ill-feeling, will be banned.

 

 

This thread is now unlocked,

The BenzoBuddie Team

 

[[ko...]]

Everyone has an opinion ~ and we are all entitled to ours.

 

Alcoholics anonymous saved my life.  I had been a member of a 'real cult' and in no way does AA reflect the attributes of a cult.  AA gives us suggestions.  Take them or leave them.  Cults suck you in and take your  money, your mind and your sanity.  AA's program restored me to sanity.  And the wonderful thing about AA is that I can choose my own higher power.  I don't have to believe in yours.  GOD to me is Good Orderly Direction and I've managed to stay sober for quite a number of 24 hours where all else failed. 

 

Every program seems to have it's detractors.