Can tolerance withdrawal cause kindling?

[Guest [...]]

I've been tapering at under 5 percent a month. taken me 24 months to taper 13 mg. im stuck at 7mg mark not able to move up or down as so destablised and disabled.drs dont think ill make it like this and wana reinstate my whole dose and back on K.

 

Hi ninja

 

I’m sorry you’re feeling so worn down and defeated right now. Let’s just try and figure out where your taper may have gone off track…

 

It says in your signature that prior to December 2022 you were tapering at 5% from 14mg down to 10mg, and then, from December you’ve been tapering at 10%? If this is so, why increase the reduction percentage? Did you try cutting at 10% at some stage and then realise it was too much?

 

However, going by your signature dates… it seems that from December until now (6 months), you’ve actually tapered from 10mg to 7mg, which would suggest you’re not recalculating a new 5% from the total remaining dose at the end of each monthly taper cycle, and instead, reducing by 0.5mg for each monthly taper cycle. This means your reduction percentage is rising with each new monthly taper cycle.

 

I also wonder if you’ve been building holds into your daily micro taper so the reductions aren’t always piling up on top of each other and causing a crash…?

 

Micro tapering is really no different than a ‘cut and hold’ in that you still have to stop reducing here and there…. build holding periods into your taper schedule.

[[ni...]]

signature is wrong. 5 percent or under has been whole way though. i hold for 5 days here and there but nothing stabilises me. should i hold for longer? ive tried a month but went downhill everyday so felt it was pointless. do i need to updose?

[Guest [...]]

It’s very difficult to know what to suggest with such limited information, but it sounds like you’re not able to taper right now, so I would try holding for a while to give yourself a chance to regain some balance. Depending on how symptomatic/destabilised one has become, it can take a considerable amount of time to stabilise again. Sometimes it can even take a few months, and it isn’t necessarily linear path because waves can sometimes appear and make you think you’re getting worse at times, rather than stabilising. It can take some time. Given how distressed and defeated you sound at the moment, I think I would hold for an extended period before resuming my taper.

 

I don’t think up-dosing is the answer for you. You haven’t tapered excessively fast, so I don’t think it makes any sense for you to up-dose right now. I think I would hold your dose where it is, and just wait until the storm passes.

 

Is there any particular reason you’re dosing 3 x per day?

 

Diazepam has a long half life, so I can’t see why you would be dosing any more that twice per day. Many members are comfortable dosing just the once per day.

[[ni...]]

I think i metabolise it fast, i crave my midday dose, its horrendous. i've never once stabilised since coming off this drug. so you think longer than a month? even though i went downhill everyday when i tried that before. I had awful reasons for going on- smypathetic nervous sustem switch on(some kind of autonmic disoder) as a result of central sentiziatoin and dytonia and PTSD, whihc caused severe pscyhiatirc symptomss, unable to talk to anyone, all that helped me was benzos.

[[ni...]]

so if i had this before, then I dont really have much hope really do i? and its why i never stabilise as, I was already in shittiest state.

[Guest [...]]

Hi ninja

 

It’s really difficult to know what the right course of action is from one member to the next, especially without having all the relevant information. After the information you’ve just provided, I really can’t say if a hold will help you or not. You say you went down hill every day that you held, and that makes me question whether holding is the right answer for you. I wish I could say for sure.

 

Still, you have tapered off half your original dose, so you’ve come a long way from there. The question is… are you just experiencing withdrawals, or are you also experiencing the reemergence of your previous underlying condition? I really think you need to figure this out.

 

I feel like there must be a reason that you began tapering of the medication in the first place, and if that reason still stands firm, then I would just try and continue your taper at a slower rate and make sure you hold long enough and often enough for your brain to keep catching up as you move through the remainder of your taper.

[Guest [...]]

Hi ninja

 

I’ve been thinking about your current situation, and just want discourage you from making any rash decisions…

 

To date, you’ve managed to taper away half of your original 14mg dose, so you’ve made significant inroads with your taper and should be proud of that.

 

Thinking about your situation, it’s really not unusual for members to reach a similar point where they feel they have hit a wall where symptoms have increased and they really begin to doubt they can make it though. This is a perfectly normal reaction, as your negative bias is very strong in benzo withdrawal. You may have intense withdrawal induced fears, such as - ‘even if do get off the medication, my pre-existing condition (PTSD) will just return as it was before’, but, this is not necessarily the truth. It’s just the truth according to the fear based negative bias looping around in your head at the moment. Once you withdraw and recover, it’s quite possible you may find that whatever potential pre-existing trauma that does re-emerge (if it does re-emerge) post recovery, will actually be much more manageable that it was previously.

 

As I say… many members reach a point in their taper where they start to wonder if it’s all worth it, but often it’s just a matter of reassessing one’s taper schedule and making some adjustments to help carry them through the remainder of the taper. It may mean holding for a period of time, or reducing the percentage of ones cuts, or even waiting out or taking care of any external stressors that are increasing or intensifying symptoms.

 

I would just ask you to consider the intense power of benzodiazepine induced fear, how it alters perception, distorts the truth, and ultimately creates what are known as ‘Benzo Lies’.

 

Don’t give up, ninja.

 

Give yourself a chance to reassess where you’re at in your taper and why…

[[ni...]]

thank you for you encouraging words. It seems eerything i was put on is re-emerging- pain, spasm, looping thoughts and PTSD. drs think im soo sick to come off, but i reached tolerance so feel stuck.

[Guest [...]]

Hi ninja

 

I would just ask you to keep in mind that benzo withdrawal will expose your weaknesses…. and common symptoms include - pain, spasms, and looping thoughts.

 

I think you’ll find that many members experience these very symptoms…

 

Benzodiazepines are muscle relaxants, so, once you drop below a dose that provides you the necessary therapeutic value, symptoms will emerge… mental, emotional, and physical.

 

I’m not dismissing outright the possibility that you may be experiencing a re-emergence of symptoms from a pre-existing condition… I’m just expressing that even if you were experiencing such a re-emergence,, those symptoms would  be greatly exacerbated through the withdrawal process, which would create the impression of them being much more intense than you would actually experience them on the other side of the withdrawal/recovery process.

 

I encourage you to take a thorough look through the benzodiazepine symptoms list and ask other members if they, also experience very similar symptoms as a part of their own withdrawal process.

 

I just think it’s worth careful consideration… and as you say… you’ve reached tolerance.