Kolonopin Withdrawal

[[Ro...]]

Hi!

 

I want to join Benzo Buddies because my psychiatrist is titrating me from a dose of 4 mg of kolonopin. I have been on benzos for 25 years and the last 12,  I have been on 4 mg. I have anxiety disorder and major depression and also social anxiety. At the moment, I am taking 3.75 mg of kolonopin and am already feeling very anxious. In a week I will go down to 3.5 mg probably for a month. I believe the taper will be slow. I am also in the process of changing antidepressants and am have been in a major depressive episode for months.

My doctor has prescribed me hydoxyine for anxiety, but it hardly works. I would like to be in this support group as I taper off the medication and probably afterwards. I was taking the kolonopin at 3.75 mg all at once and my doctor has asked me to split it into two doses of 2 mg and 1.75 mg. I already have a lot of anxiety. I am alone most of the time and also struggle with advanced arthritis which I am try to take care of.

Presently, I am taking 3 1 mg pill and .75 mg in .5 mg pills.

[[Pa...]]

Hello RollieGirl1, welcome to BenzoBuddies,

 

We’re glad you found us and we’ll support you as you rid yourself of the Klonopin but I want to caution you that tapering more than one medication at a time can be rough.  The reason being, its difficult to know what medication is causing what in case you need to make adjustments due to extreme withdrawal symptoms.

 

I’d also like you to know that once we become dependent on or tolerant to our dose, the drug begins to cause the issues we were put on them to address.  I never experienced anxiety until I started taking Klonopin and the anxiety the drug produces is far and away worse than normal anxiety so please understand part of what you’re feeling may be due to the drug.  And once you’re free and recovered from it, you may find you’re in much better shape than you thought you were.

 

We suggest reducing your dose by about 5-10% every couple of weeks or a month but what words even better is using your symptoms to guide your taper, this can hopefully keep you functional.

 

I’ll provide some links to get you started but please let us know how we can help you.

 

Pamster.

Colorado Consortium Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance

 

Planning Your Withdrawal (Taper)

 

Withdrawal Support (during your taper)

 

Ashton Manual symptom list

[[Fa...]]

Hi there,

 

I was on Clonazepam for many years, also.  I would like to try to help people not fall into the place where I am, and that came from a taper that was too fast.  The saying 'listen to your body' is of the utmost importance.  I did not do that.  I followed the Ashton Manual, and although I could not transition to Diazepam (my body would not adjust), I did follow the taper schedule for Clonazepam (Klonopin) seeing that it had a one to two week cut schedule but it does say to go at your own pace.  My problem was I didn't know what was an acceptable amount of discomfort to determine my pace.  And, most of us want to have the drug out of our system faster than slower.  I think we all start with that mind set.  And, it is not the most beneficial.

 

The guidelines are 10% based on your current dose...not the dose you start on.  Many miss that.  I did.  But, the 10% is just a guideline.  As a result of going too fast for my body initially, I developed Akathisia.  This happens often with rapid tapers and cold turkeys.  So, this email is a cautionary tale of what can happen if you taper too fast.  And, if you start too quickly, it can be hard to get your NS to a more settled state for the remainder of your taper.

 

Everyone is different, and I realize this.  I just want to be able to write and say that it is so imperative that you move slow and steady so as to give your body the best chance to move through the taper as 'comfortably' as possible.  Of course, comfort is relative and subjective.  However, please do not go too fast.  You have been on for a long time, and the body needs a lot of time to adjust to the absence of the drug.  Especially for long term users as we are.

 

If I can help even one person not experience the extreme difficulties of tapering too quickly, I would be happy.

 

On a personal note, I wish I had known about micro liquid tapering from the beginning.  I started by dry cut and hold.  It has been shown over and over again that micro tapering will allow your body to slowly adjust to the decreases rather than taking one hit a month and going through a couple weeks of possible extreme symptoms....recovering from the symptoms only to do it all over again.  In my opinion, it is a disservice to ourselves to put ourselves through that.  I speak from my own experience, but many have expressed the same thing...whether micro tapering via liquid or micro cuts using a jeweller scale.

 

I hope I have given you some food for thought.  I wish I had looked into this before I began my taper.  The Ashton Manual is a good starting point, but since it's conception, so much more information and tips have been shared by those who have gone before us.  You can find water titration tapering on You Tube as well as dry micro tapering tutorials.  Most important piece is to ensure you are always doing your cut percentage based on your current dose...not your original dose.  If you always use your original dose, the taper will be far too fast.

 

Wishing you only the best on your healing journey.

 

Warmly,

F

[[Ro...]]

Thanks for your responses. I am getting my medication from my doctor and I am not math minded. I do not know how to measure percentages of the medication. Right now, I started at 4mg and have gone down to 3.75 mg for one month and then I believe they will take me down to 3.50 mg for a month. I always took my kolonopin all at once and now they have asked me to split it into two daily doses. I have done this the last two days and feel very anxious and depressed. I take 2 mg in the late morning and 1.75 mg in the mid-afternoon. If you have any suggestions about calculations please let me know. I am very scared and already dealing with anxiety. Thanks again for your response.

 

Rolleigirl1

[[Pa...]]

It can take a a week or so for your body to become accustomed to taking the medication twice a day, any change takes time, so patience is very important.  I suggest you wait to make another reduction until you’ve stabilized with dosing twice a day.  We consider someone to be stable when their symptoms quite changing drastically, have leveled somewhat and you can perform your daily tasks, stable doesn’t mean feeling good.

 

I feel the next reduction your doctor has planned may be too big, have you looked at this document I provided?  This would be an excellent resource for your doctor to help you. Colorado Consortium Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance

 

What size are your pills?

[[Ro...]]

Thanks for letting me know that it might take a week or two for my system to get used to splitting up my doses. I am taking 1 mg tablets and .5 mg tablets that I split in half to get my total daily dose of 3.75. I will discuss with my doctor about the document you suggest I read. I am very anxious and it's hard to read... I have ADHD and can't take Ritalin anymore because it makes me too anxious. I will do my best to read the document though. I'm going to ask him when I speak to him on Monday what the next dose will be. Thanks so much for your responses to my messages. I truly appreciate your support right now. I went off of a large dose of Zyprexa a month and a half ago and am still dealing with that. I am now on a low dose of it which was better than going from 5 mg to nothing.

[[Pa...]]

I hope your doctor is willing to let you and your symptoms guide your taper, not everyone will suffer with coming off of  these drugs like we do so it can be difficult for doctors to understand our needs.

 

When you see him and if he’s amendable, it would be helpful if he prescribed the lowest dose pill so you can continue to dry cut for as long as its comfortable to do so.

 

 

[[Fa...]]

Hi there,

 

Klonopin and Clonazepam are the same.  I am in Canada, so it's Clonazepam for me.

 

I started cutting at .25 every two weeks.  It caught up to me fast.  Very fast.  I would venture to say that even if I had waited a month having cut that amount, it would not have been that different. Plus, you will not be sticking within the 10% (maximum) guideline on that schedule if looking at cutting every month at .25 mg.

 

I, too, hope that your psychiatrist allows you to go at your own pace.

 

This is only my opinion...but, these cuts are high.  And, I so badly want you to ease into this....so important especially at the beginning.

 

There is a YouTube channel called Benzo Brains.  There is an example of a water taper in her videos.  Now, she starts with 300ml of water.  That is less than a year of tapering at 1ml pulls every day if there are no holds.  So, that is too fast, in my opinion.  I would start with .5ml pulls...you can even start with 500 ml of water.  But, it is an example of how you can do your taper.  And, this will take time to transition to as well, if it agrees with you.  Usually, just switching over to water titration, without making any reductions during, takes a couple of weeks to get your body used to the new delivery system.

 

There is dry micro-tapering, also.  But, I found it too much for my brain.  I am a right-brainer...English/arts, not numbers!

 

As for the math...it can be difficult when we are in a deficit position cognitively.  I get it.  I had to get help with a spread sheet.  However, the spread sheet is a guide...not a rule.  I change it all the time as I have had to hold at times.

 

An example...if you were to use 500ml of water, drop 1 mg of Klonopin in, 1 mg Klonopin divided by 500ml of water = .002mg.  So, for every 1ml you would pull, you would be removing .002mg of the drug.

 

So, for 3.75 mg, 3.75 mg Klonopin divided by 500ml of water = .007mg.  If you dropped all of your pills in together, started with a 1ml pull per day, you would be able to subtract .007mg off of your starting dose of 3.75mg which would be 3.74 mg in one day.  That is how you can determine over a certain period of time how much you have dropped let's say over a 28 day period.  In a 28 day period, you would have dropped to 3.55 mg. (.007mg x 28) That is how to determine your percentage per month drop.  And, you can start with a .5ml draw, or a 1ml draw.  And, you can hold when you need to according to how you are feeling.

 

The water titration that is shown on Benzo Brains does not calculate the percentage.  But, you hold your draws as need be.  She has several videos on there regarding tapering that are useful.  She is part of the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition.  She is very reputable.

 

Again...just some food for thought.  This is the time to do this sort of thinking.  I know it is a lot, but it is important.  Feel free to ask me any questions, and I will do my best to answer.  I am not an expert...just someone who has made many errors initially that I have learned from...a little too late.

 

Warmly,

F

 

 

[[Ro...]]

Hi Everyone!

Since I started my withdrawal journey months ago, I have made some progress. I went from 4mg of Kolonopin to approximately 2.875 (I am using a razor to cut my dose and not using a scale yet). I bought a scale that I saw someone on a YT video use and I can't seem to figure out how to use it. I am feeling anxious and socially anxious and agoraphobic most of the time. Today I got outside and walked around the yard a couple of times. I have also purchased several books off of Amazon about benzo recovery.

 

I just bought a new scale that is "NEWACALOX Reloading Scale 100 x 0.001g, High Precision Portable Multifunction Lab Powder Scales" and it will be delivered tomorrow and I am hoping for more accurate doses. I have split from one dose a day to two and plan to taper using the 5-10% guidelines. My psychiatrist actually read the Ashton Manual and seems to be on board with allowing me to make decisions on when to taper and how much. I am open to any advice or suggestions from the group.

 

This whole process is really frightening to me and it has already changed my life in difficult ways. I am grateful for the small things that do happen day to day that feel good to me. I am also on 225 mg of Effexor, 10 mg of olanzapine, 100 mg to 200 mg of hydroxyine and 400 mg of Gabapentin. My doctor would like me to taper from the Gabapentin--before continuing the taper of Kolonopin-- and then he will put me on Buspar for anxiety. I hope it is more effective.

 

Should I chop up the kolonopin with a razor and measure it as powder and then put it into water to drink? Thanks for your time reading this. I am new to this and trying to learn.

 

Best,

RolleiGirl

[[Pa...]]

I have to caution you about tapering the Gabapentin while you’re tapering the Klonopin, we advise only tapering one drug at a time, otherwise you won’t know what is causing what so you can make adjustments.

 

If you’d like help with your new scales or with the calculations you’ll need to make, you can start a thread on the titration board.