Need help with taper please!

[[Sh...]]

Has anyone gone straight from klonopin to diazepam with no taper?  Doctor put me on 20mg diazepam yesterday, (from 2 mg klonopin)  spaced out through the day in 5 mg increments.  Completely stopped the klonopin.  I feel horrible, but am sleeping better and can finally have a bowel movement.  Eating is a little easier.  I could handle it but have to make a trip again.  6 hours one way to see another md for my kids, so I have to make it.  My husband is driving.  Another stressful situation here at home has me worked up.  He also gave me trazadone for sleep which I have not taken yet.  Wanted to see how the other went first.  I plan to call him Mon.  He also answers emails.  What should I ask him to do to help me through this.  He is on the benzodoc list and does this a lot.  He said it would not be easy.  I hesitate to ask to go up on the dose b/c that will just make all this take longer, but don't know if I can do this for the long haul.  How long, using this method, would it take for the klonopin to be out of my system and the valium to stabilize?

[[cu...]]

Has anyone gone straight from klonopin to diazepam with no taper?  Doctor put me on 20mg diazepam yesterday, (from 2 mg klonopin)  spaced out through the day in 5 mg increments.  Completely stopped the klonopin.  I feel horrible, but am sleeping better and can finally have a bowel movement.  Eating is a little easier.  I could handle it but have to make a trip again.  6 hours one way to see another md for my kids, so I have to make it.  My husband is driving.  Another stressful situation here at home has me worked up.   He also gave me trazadone for sleep which I have not taken yet.  Wanted to see how the other went first.  I plan to call him Mon.  He also answers emails.  What should I ask him to do to help me through this.  He is on the benzodoc list and does this a lot.  He said it would not be easy.  I hesitate to ask to go up on the dose b/c that will just make all this take longer, but don't know if I can do this for the long haul.  How long, using this method, would it take for the klonopin to be out of my system and the valium to stabilize?

 

Shiloh,

 

2mg of Klonopin is the equivalent of 40mg of Valium. Your doctor essentially gave you a 50% cut in your dosage.

 

Others will certainly chime in, but I would think you may experience some w/d symptoms from this drastic cut.

 

cubfan4real

[Guest [Si...]]

2mg of Klonopin is the equivalent of 40mg of Valium. Your doctor essentially gave you a 50% cut in your dosage.

 

cubfan is correct.

2mg of Klonopin is equiv. to 40mg of Valium.

 

I feel horrible, but am sleeping better and can finally have a bowel movement.  Eating is a little easier.

 

When I c/o from Klonopin to Valium.. I did it in stages.

I would not advise a straight c/o like this, but if you are finding your symptoms tolerable and manageable. I would just stick with the 20mg. You will stabilize more than likely. Don't make any cuts until you do!

I found when I crossed, I could eat better as well.

 

Hopefully others will chime in.

 

S#

[[Sh...]]

I am worried about seizures, still waiting for a reply from an email I sent him.  Not holding my breath.  Think it is going to be a long weekend.  anyone know how long it takes valium to cover klonopin at this rate.

[[cu...]]

I'm not sure it will "cover" the Klonopin, since you effectively reduced your dose by 50%.

 

I can't speak for valium as I will be dry cutting my Klonopin, and will switch to water titration if necessary.

[[Sh...]]

What should I do?  If he doesn't reply, do I tough it out 'til Monday and hope he gives me some more valium or gives me a taper program.  Or do I go ahead and take some klonopin on my own.  I have no idea how much or how long to take.  I just know I am in a bad spot right now and don't know what to do.

[[cu...]]

What should I do?  If he doesn't reply, do I tough it out 'til Monday and hope he gives me some more valium or gives me a taper program.  Or do I go ahead and take some klonopin on my own.  I have no idea how much or how long to take.  I just know I am in a bad spot right now and don't know what to do.

 

Can you increase to 40mg of valium to stabilize until you are able to speak with your doctor? I know a slow crossover from Klonopin to Valium is the recommended method.

 

Hang in there...

 

 

[Guest [Si...]]

Shiloh,

 

If you're not stabilized on the 20mg of Valium, then talk to your doctor.

 

Are you stable?

 

How do you feel?

 

I am worried about seizures, still waiting for a reply from an email I sent him.  Not holding my breath.  Think it is going to be a long weekend.  anyone know how long it takes valium to cover klonopin at this rate.

 

When I crossed from klonopin to Valium, I could feel the Valium covering the Klonopin as I crossed, which was two weeks.

 

It's up to you whether or not you need to increase the dosage of Valium.

 

Hopefully your doctor will contact you soon.

 

S#

[[Sh...]]

I don't feel well at all.  Impending fear of doom, beginning to itch, rapid heartbeat, feel detached from reality, major anxiety.  Afraid of what's to come since I am on the wrong dose and not tapering.  And it's Friday night and he's not answering me.  I can tough it out I guess, but don't want to do myself any damage or have a seizure.  He gave me trazadone for sleep, would that help or hurt me?  I have never taken it before, so am leery of it.  I am allergic to many meds.

[Guest [Si...]]

It's up to you, but I would try sticking it out until you get in touch with your doctor.

 

The symptoms you are describing are withdrawal.

 

I cannot answer your question about Trazodone.

 

Some charts suggest that 1mg of Klonopin = 10mg of Valium

Ashton states 1mg of Klonopin is equiv. to 20mg of Valium.

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Sigma,

 

Ok, thanks for the advice.  I didn't know about the one chart that said 1mg = 10mg valium.  Don't like that one.  I am now having chest pain and that really scares me. 

[Guest [Si...]]

Shiloh,

 

Yes my doctor has a chart that states 1mg of Klonopin = 10mg of Valium.

 

I don't find it accurate.

 

In my belief it is 20mg of Valium.

 

1:20 ratio.

 

The chest pains are withdrawal as well.

 

Hang in there.

 

Have you shown the Ashton Manual to your doctor?

 

 

[[Sh...]]

He is on the benzodoc list, that is why I went to him.  He says he's done this a lot and has researched Ashton, but has his way of doing it.  He is open-minded though, if I can just get in touch with him, I think he will adjust things.  Someone on another forum suggested that I go back on the klonopin 'til I talk to him.  I really don't want to mess with the program if I don't have to.  I do know that this is not tolerable over the long haul and I need a change in the program.  Why do these things always happen on Fri nite?  Are the chest pains dangerous or just a symptom of wd?

[Guest [Si...]]

Shiloh,

 

How is everything going?

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Hi Sigma,

 

After a horrendous night and day, things are a bit better.  The md finally called and we talked him into following the Ashton method.  I hope this is the right thing to do.  Everyone seems to think this is one of the better ways to beat this.  I just know that I just spent the worst night and day of my life curled up in the fetal position asking God if this was my fate, to please take me home.  It was awful.  So I hope things get better soon.  The md wants to call in the meds every two weeks, which makes me a little nervous, but I guess he wants to see how I do.  I worry (a lot) about screw ups, stuff not getting called in and me not getting the meds and a another night like the last one.  I guess I am a bit of a pansy.  I would rather go slow and repair the damage slowly and be functional for my family.  A whole year it will take, such a long time, but worth it.  Better than being on this poison.  Thanks for helping me.  Shiloh.

[Guest [Si...]]

Shiloh,

 

I understand the feelings that you are feeling. I have had them as well, but it will get better.

 

You have my sympathy.

 

What mg of Valium are you on?

 

What did your doctor say about your dosing at the time?

 

I would rather go slow and repair the damage slowly and be functional for my family.  A whole year it will take, such a long time, but worth it.

 

Yes, it is worth it in the long haul.

 

 

[Guest [Si...]]

I guess I am a bit of a pansy.

 

lol, no you're not that.

 

Anyone that can go through this is no coward at all.

 

 

[[re...]]

I promise what you are experiencing is w/d.  With a major reduction like you have had, 50% reduction, will cause the extreme of all extreme w/d's.  I know personally.  I know it doesnt make you feel better but I have been there. 

 

Sigma, 20mgs of Valium = 1 K,  what dr told you it equals 10mg.  That freaks me out!!!!!  It reminds me of my dr telling me to "suck it up" when he screwed me over at the beginning of my nightmare. 

[[Sh...]]

I am starting the Ashton protocol. I take .5 klonopin, and 10mg valium at 6am, .5mg klonopin and 5 valium at 2pm, and 15 valium at 10pm. I feel horrible.  I have to leave for a trip tomorrow 6 hours away.  As it is right now, I don't think I will make it.  It is very important that I go for my kids need to see a doctor.  I can't eat, feel like I am going to throw up all the time am very weak.  What can I do to get into good enough shape to make the trip.  MD will probably not adjust dose.  I tried trazadone at about 2 am, but not any help, so probably made me feel worse.  Please help.  I was taking 2mg klonopin but had been taking my dose as needed because doctor never told me otherwise.  Made a recent trip to see a benzodoctor and he said up the klonopin to 2.5 a day for three days to make the trip.

[[Be...]]

I don't know what you could do now to feel better by tomorrow, Shiloh.    Have you been doing a slow crossover as recommended in The Ashton Manual?  When did you make the last substitution and what dose did you substitute?  Just curious about how you are doing the crossover in case you've been going too fast or not getting an equivalent dose of Valium.  I've seen peppermint and ginger teas recommended for nausea.  Other than that, I don't know what to suggest. 

[[Sh...]]

I have been following the ashton protocol exactly as shown on the chart.  Have been at it for about 3 days.  Could I go up a little on the klonopin to make it to st louis? The doctor had me go from 2mg up to 2.5 to make it to tx to see him.  I was in bad wd then too.  The extra .5 klonopin made it tolerable.  I don't want to mess with the program, but  I am a mess.  If I could just stay home and tough it out, that  would be one thing, but making a 7 hour trip is another.  I started on stage 4 on the 3mg schedule.  Could I go back to 2.5 of klonopin 3X day  to make the trip, then go back to ashton taper when I get home?  As it is now, I cannot function.

[[Sh...]]

i am now on stage three of ashton. I hope this is close to where I need to be so as not to lose my mind.  was very uncomfortable this afternoon.  almost not functional.  it was after I forced down a bowl of potatos, I just felt sick and my heart started pounding, rapid breathing, thought I was gonna die for a while. I just hate eating, but have to force it.  Lost lots of weight and can't afford too much more.  I guess that's normal.  What a hideous drug. 

 

I keep hearing different things about the valium crossing over the klonopin.  I've heard anywhere from a few days to a month.  So which is it?  Just want to know how long I have to deal with this.

 

Nights are horrible, and mornings not much better.  Why such major anxiety in the am.  I guess the realization that we have to face another day of this nightmare. 

 

I have to make a trip six hours away tomorrow, and am petrified.  With my problems of the last few days, don't know if I can do it.  Is it kosher to take a small updose like .5 klonopin each day to get through it?  That's what the doctor had me do to get to his office 350 miles away for just three days. That was before I started the ashton on thurs.  Now that I've started ashton that would probably screw everything up.  This is a very important doctors appt for my kids, so I have to make it.  If I did take extra to get through it, how would I get back to the normal schedule?  Or would I just be screwed up for weeks?

 

Thanks for all your help.

 

Shiloh

[Guest [Si...]]

Sigma, 20mgs of Valium = 1 K,  what dr told you it equals 10mg.  That freaks me out!!!!!  It reminds me of my dr telling me to "suck it up" when he screwed me over at the beginning of my nightmare.

 

Yes, that's what he said, but I went by the Ashton Manual instead.

 

Shiloh,

 

Try to remain calm while crossing over. I got worried at the beginning of my c/o.

You have to give the Valium time to build up in your system.

 

I keep hearing different things about the valium crossing over the klonopin.  I've heard anywhere from a few days to a month.  So which is it?

 

In my experience, it took 2 weeks - month for the valium to build up.

Everyone is different when it comes to this.

 

I would try to avoid taking an extra dose.

 

Hopefully, you will stabilize once you cross over.

 

S#

[[dr...]]

Shiloh:

 

I'm glad your doctor is on board with Ashton's protocol.  A really important support should be in place for you.  Hang in there!

 

Draftsman

[[Sh...]]

Draftsman,

 

I started on stage 3 of the ashton.  Several people have said that is too much of a cut of the klonopin to start, that I should stablilize first.  I was unaware that it took so long for the valium to cover.  Some say a few days, some say a month. I have to take a 7 hour trip tomorrow.  I have had some rough spots since starting the ashton.   Is there a way i can substitute a dose of the valium and add klonopin if things get really rough. I have extra klonopin but not extra valium.  If I were at home and could deal with the discomfort here it would be another thing.  We have to make this trip to a doctor for my kids.  The doc I went to for my tx was 6 hours away.  He said I could go up from 2mg which I was tolerant at to 2.5 for 3 days to make the trip easier, which it made all the difference.  In your opinion, what should I do.  I have be on ashton for 4 days tomorrow.  I expect to get pretty uncomfortable.  Can I sub the klonopin then go back on the ashton without screwing things up too badly. Would like to hear your opinion.  Thanks for your support. Take care and God bless.  Shiloh