Jump to content
Important Survey - Please Participate ×

CLONOPIN HELP! I can’t figure out taper dosage. Where is everyone?


[CK...]

Recommended Posts

I copied this from general support. I don’t know how to move. Apologies.

 

Desperate for advice on % of clonopin to cut down for each period. I can’t switch to another benzo with smaller doses. I have 0.5 tablets and need to order scale, file, pill cutter. I am horrendous at math. I’m too visual. It seems that trimming off 0.001 per day from 0.875 (weight of 0.5 mg pill is 0.200) will take approx 200 days. Is that correct? You see my dilemma. Or do I shave off 10% (0.7875) and hold for a few weeks then shave another 10% off of that, etc.

 

Starting at 0.875mg/ once per day (0.5 tablets) see signature for how I’ve broken pills for 0.875 dose.

Like this?

Weeks 1 - 2 = 0.875 (globally hold for more weeks if symptoms get bad)

Weeks 3 - 4 = 0.7875

Weeks 5 - 6 = 0.70875

Weeks 7 - 9 = 0.6378

Weeks 10 - 12 = 0.57402

 

I will go slower if I start to develop worsening symptoms, of course. I just can’t figure out the math and I don’t fit the Ashton Manual suggestion.

 

Thank you! ❤️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 82
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • [CK...]

    38

  • [he...]

    7

  • [Li...]

    4

  • [Pa...]

    3

It looks like the taper schedule that you have laid out is a reasonable one.  It looks like you understand well the importance of letting your symptoms dictate the amount of the cut and the rate.

 

You can look at my signature for an example of how someone else does the shave and hold.  We're each different and you may find a better pace for yourself.

 

Sometimes we change our plans, and instead of cut and hold, we switch to the DMT method (Daily Micro Tapering).  Oftentimes hold periods are done during this kind of taper, too.

 

As you know, a gram scale like the GEM20 is a good way to make precision cuts.  A nail file is not required, but I use one and it seems to work well.

 

Any other questions, please ask..

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi CKing56

 

As you get lower you will probably be wanting to use a scale, so below is a link to the one I use, however the GEM20 that Rocknroll mentions is quite popular on here, so you may choose to go with that.

 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Precision-Milligram-Tweezers-Calibration-Weighing/dp/B011J88S8M/ref=asc_df_B011J88S8M/?tag=googleshopdsk-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=341774158480&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15326910344609212524&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9071742&hvtargid=pla-310643494494&psc=1

 

 

Math - weigh your tablet or normal dose that you’re measuring by eye and taking at the moment , and lets say that your particular tablet/dose weighs 0.172mg on the scale (this is just an example of what 1 of my Valium tablets weighs), you would then get your calculator and punch in 0.172 and the multiply that by 0.95 (for a 5% reduction) or 0.90 (for a 10%) reduction. This will give you the remaining weight of your dose… less the 5 or 10%.

 

It will be more difficult to do an accurate daily micro taper because of both the potency of clonazepam and the possible fluctuations or inconsistencies associated with weighing such small reductions from such a small potent benzodiazepine, so you could just try the cut and hold method at say 5% reductions every two weeks, or however long you feel it takes to feel recovered to your baseline symptoms. Remember, (as Rocknroll pointed out) in most cases, doing a daily micro taper doesn’t avoid the necessity of holding for a period, as reductions do still catch up to you, and I think this is a common misconception among many who choose the DMT. You do need to hold on a dose at times to avoid the reductions piling up on top of one another.

 

There are other options for micro tapering, including compounded liquid suspensions, but that’s more Libertas’ area of expertise, so if any of what we’ve discussed here becomes problematic, and you’d prefer to try a liquid option (if your prescriber was on board), then just let us know and I’ll see if Libertas can lay out some information in regard to your liquid method options. However, I would just get you to post to the Titration board to carry on that conversation.

 

Let me know if the way I have explained the math makes sense.

 

Just in regard to the math… big thanks to Libertas!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, both! For now, I feel the slow taper and hold is best, but time will tell. I’m going to let the severity of any symptoms dictate the schedule. I don’t really trust any custom pharmacies around here for liquids. Hopefully, I’ll be able to manage the cut and hold down to the smaller dose. Perhaps then I could switch to a med with smaller dose options (smaller dose per tablet). I’m grateful to have found this group and thankful for your kind words and encouragement.

 

❤️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have Solco clonazepam? I believe those weigh .200 g. Teva and Accord weigh about .170 g. Just don't go too fast, but don't be afraid to try going faster if you seem to be doing okay at a certain rate. You don't want to go slower than you need to, but you definitely don't want to go faster than you can handle.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear hereforhelp,

 

I have the generic ClonazePam tablets. I’m not sure who makes them. Round, orange, scored. I’ve yet to purchase scale, but I do know pill weights tend to vary. I’ll be aware of that. I plan to cut 10% every 3rd week, and hopefully, that isn’t too fast or too slow. It’s frustrating not knowing what to expect. I do tend to think the cut and hold might be safer (for me) than the micro tapering (shaving off minuscule amts daily), but I could be wrong. BTW, I checked out the scale you use. Quite fancy. I can barely afford heat! I guess I’ll go for the basic version and calibrate a lot.

 

Thank you for responding. It means a lot.

❤️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear hereforhelp,

 

I have the generic ClonazePam tablets. I’m not sure who makes them. Round, orange, scored. I’ve yet to purchase scale, but I do know pill weights tend to vary. I’ll be aware of that. I plan to cut 10% every 3rd week, and hopefully, that isn’t too fast or too slow. It’s frustrating not knowing what to expect. I do tend to think the cut and hold might be safer (for me) than the micro tapering (shaving off minuscule amts daily), but I could be wrong. BTW, I checked out the scale you use. Quite fancy. I can barely afford heat! I guess I’ll go for the basic version and calibrate a lot.

 

Thank you for responding. It means a lot.

❤️

 

Hi CKing56

 

I understand the issue with excessive energy prices. It the same in Australia, which brings me to the point… the link to those scales is in AU$. It’s probably about half that if you’re in the UK or US.

 

However, I just checked the GEM20, and they were cheaper at about half the price again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Winters Sun,

 

Yes, the scale hereforhelp mentioned is still over $1000 in the US. I’ll stick to the Gemini or the other more affordable ones. Just trying to afford basic living is insane all over the world. Ironically, benzos are cheap or free with insurance. Pathetic how our HC is in the US.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Winters Sun,

 

Yes, the scale hereforhelp mentioned is still over $1000 in the US. I’ll stick to the Gemini or the other more affordable ones. Just trying to afford basic living is insane all over the world. Ironically, benzos are cheap or free with insurance. Pathetic how our HC is in the US.

 

Benzos are very cheap. Yeah, you don't have to have a scale like mine. I decided to use the money I was saving for a laptop to get a scale I could count on because my anxiety was so bad, and I had had a bad experience with a kitchen scale I got on Amazon way back. I didn't want a repeat of that. But lots of people use the GEM20.

 

It sounds like you have Accord tablets, which should average about .170 g. That's what I have been taking from the beginning. They're crap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hereforhelp,

 

Well, that sucks. I’m guessing the scale was off. Not good. I’ll be needing a new Mac soon, so I’m going to go with the lesser priced scale for now with fingers crossed. I just placed the order. Yes, the tablets I have are crap. They don’t cut down very well. I just spoke to my prescriber about my tapering and she said “You don’t need a scale. Just do 1/4 cuts a week” because, of course she did. Are they all so misinformed? Maybe. I’m not at all anti-med, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into. We are on our own in this. Best of luck to you. I need to look at your sig to see if you’re off everything.

 

BTW, love Eugene Levy! The Best!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Winters Sun,

 

Yes, the scale hereforhelp mentioned is still over $1000 in the US. I’ll stick to the Gemini or the other more affordable ones. Just trying to afford basic living is insane all over the world. Ironically, benzos are cheap or free with insurance. Pathetic how our HC is in the US.

 

Ohh, I thought you were referring to my link as I couldn’t see hereforhelp had provided a link. Mine (Smart weigh) are about $34 US and I think the GEM20 are about $14. I tend to weigh my doses multiple times, because every now and then I catch the scale shift in its resting weight, but they are perfectly fine for dosing. You simply pay attention and take care whilst weighing.  :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hereforhelp,

 

It seems you’re stuck at a very low dose. What a bummer, but such patience! I’m wondering if my anxiety will come back in a big way once I get down to such a low dose. I might consider Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation at that point. Insurance covers it and I’m treatment resistant to all antidepressants. Such fun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Winters Sun. The threads can get confusing if one doesn’t enter a name. Apologies. I think I ordered the scale you suggested. I like the carrying case and I will be calibrating and re-checking a lot.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Winters Sun. The threads can get confusing if one doesn’t enter a name. Apologies. I think I ordered the scale you suggested. I like the carrying case and I will be calibrating and re-checking a lot.

 

:thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, isn't a liquid taper a lot easier and cheaper?  All you need is a schedule, some jars, a plastic syringe.  Here's an instruction video I found very helpful....

 

 

clearbluesky

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly, isn't a liquid taper a lot easier and cheaper?  All you need is a schedule, some jars, a plastic syringe.  Here's an instruction video I found very helpful....

 

 

clearbluesky

 

It’s certainly an option, clearbluesky!

 

I tried it, however it didn’t work out so well for me, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work for CKing56.

 

It certainly may be worth a try, although, I think it would be wise for CKing56 to first read - Titration: Limits and Limitations, under ‘titration’ on the Planning Your Withdrawal (taper) Board.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, clearbluesky  :thumbsup:

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hereforhelp,

 

Well, that sucks. I’m guessing the scale was off. Not good. I’ll be needing a new Mac soon, so I’m going to go with the lesser priced scale for now with fingers crossed. I just placed the order. Yes, the tablets I have are crap. They don’t cut down very well. I just spoke to my prescriber about my tapering and she said “You don’t need a scale. Just do 1/4 cuts a week” because, of course she did. Are they all so misinformed? Maybe. I’m not at all anti-med, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into. We are on our own in this. Best of luck to you. I need to look at your sig to see if you’re off everything.

 

BTW, love Eugene Levy! The Best!

 

Eugene Levy is so funny. Completely agree.

 

Yeah, your prescriber doesn't know a thing. Some people can cut like that and are fine, but obviously we are not in that group, and we're not as rare as they seem to believe.

 

I am not stuck, as I haven't stopped tapering, but things have definitely gotten harder and I've tried moving at different paces, just in case the cuts had caught up with me. I'm down to .129 mg K today.

 

I also tried two liquid formulations and couldn't do it. That's definitely an easy option, if you can tolerate liquid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m glad you don’t feel stuck. It seems the beginnings and endings are hardest. I wish more clinicians would get on the de-prescribing train. I find it odd that most have no experience with difficult patient withdrawals. I hesitate to mention these boards or anything not from a highly reputable site. I guess those who get off benzos easily and their prescribers are unaware of those of us who struggle. That a therapist would not wish to be supportive boggles my mind. Mine suggested I find someone else if I didn’t trust her. (Well, good luck with that these days. Backpedaling commenced.)

 

If I taper 10% every two weeks I won’t be at 0.129 until… 2025. Jeeze. Not thrilled about that. I can only wish for a Schitt’s Creek Reunion Special and no crazy symptoms. Best of it with that last bit of devil candy.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I taper 10% every two weeks I won’t be at 0.129 until… 2025. Jeeze. Not thrilled about that.

 

It took me 21 months to taper 1mg. The first 9 months I tapered at an average of 7.5% per 2 weeks and the last year I tapered at 5%/14 days. I hope this gives you a bit more hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, you just need to surrender to the process. Chasing dates is futile. We all get get there in the end, it's HOW you get there that matters. Whether you suffer in agony or whether you try to remain functional.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tapered at just over 6%/14 for many months and then dropped to 5% this summer after symptoms increased in May, but it really didn't help much. After trying to go even slower and finding no relief, I sped up and settled on about 8.5%, and it was no worse (and possibly better) than 5%. Since the end of August, I've tried speeding up every few weeks, just to see what I can tolerate. Things change as your dose changes. Your body can handle less or more. You just have to test and see. Don't get stuck going super slow for the entire taper, unless you absolutely cannot tolerate going faster. It's worth trying every so often to see if things have changed. These days, different speeds have different effects, some good and some bad. I'm trying to settle on one I can tolerate for the time being. Nothing is certain in this other than you will get off eventually if you keep going.

 

And yes, a Schitt's Creek reunion show would be great. I'd love to see that cast together again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m trying not to get caught up in the timing, but it’s all very daunting. I’m high-risk for serious disease from Covid and I found out you can’t take Paxlovid with clonopin. Very dangerous. Cutting for the duration is suggested. (eye roll)

That was what got me investigating and now I believe I’ve been in a tolerance state for years with new and very odd symptoms no doctor or tests can explain.

 

I’ve been on 0.875 for about 16 days now, after two days of 0.75, which caused too much anxiety. I’ve only experienced some mild anxiety very late at night (I take full dose in morning), but yesterday developed chills, nausea and more anxiety (possibly over worrying about getting sick, but who knows?). I’ve stopped walking outdoors due to freezing weather and did two days of harder indoor workout. Not sure that made me feel sick. Feel better today. Still on 0.875 and will probably stay here until Jan 1, if more symptoms besides tolerable anxiety continue.

 

I’m just wondering if tolerance and withdrawal cause flu-like symptoms. I wear a mask everywhere. Live alone and haven’t been anywhere around people in weeks. No Thanksgiving. Only go indoors for food shopping and medical with an n95. This is the main reason I want out. Covid is never going away and I need a life. Covid test was negative.

 

Trying to be positive. My scale arrives tomorrow! Yay? ❤️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh my dear, do I ever know how you feel!!!  I got Covid at the end of October after being so extremely careful the past year and a half.  But not one person at my class reunion was wearing a mask.  I should have known better than to follow my classmates over a cliff.

 

NOW because of post-covid complications, I can't get a flu shot, nor can I risk getting the flu.  So it's like being back in covid isolation all over again. 

 

And here at the end of my taper, I can't tell what is WDs and what is long covid.  Oddly enough there seems to be quite a bit of overlap in symptoms.

 

In any case.....my heart goes put to you being alone!  I do necessary shopping in a mask, and my BF spends some time here, but at least half the time I'm alone.  His birthday is Saturday and I can't go to dinner with his family, can't get together with friends over the holidays.  It's a terrible time to be stuck home alone.  You are smart to be careful about covid, though.

 

I'm wondering.....you said a person can't take Paxlovid if they take Klonopin.  Why is that?

 

clearbluesky

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...