Updosing go resolve tolerance withdrawal

[[Kt...]]

Thanks so much for all your support and advice. That does make sense. I’m sure, though, that pamster has said that ambien to Valium is like going from the frying pan into the fire. I think she believes that Valium causes withdrawal symptoms after your taper, whereas ambien doesn’t. And I’ve just noticed that there isn’t really anyone else on this forum who’s done the ambien to Valium crossover - they all seem to have tapered directly. I feel somehow that I’m on a gentler drug, and am worried of worse withdrawal symptoms when I cross.

 

The thing is though that maybe I don’t have a choice. I’m so ill in other ways at the moment that my body can’t handle withdrawal... So maybe crossing is the only answer. I could very well just end up in tolerance withdrawal to Valium though - that’s my fear.

 

I’m sorry I know I’m going round in circles. The withdrawal is completely trying my brain in knots and I play these arguments in my head in repeated circles day after day....

 

Thank you so much again for everything.

[[sl...]]

You're very welcome. I'm sorry I can't offer more support than my suggestions.

[[Kt...]]

You’ve been so much help - I really appreciate your taking the time and giving me such detailed answers to everything

[[Kt...]]

I have one more question if you have a minute and if I’m not driving you completely crazy...

 

As I mentioned, with the zolpidem, if I get the dose off by even 1% I feel it dramatically, so I have to weigh it precisely and minutely on my scale. With the valium, when I’m taking half a tablet to get 1mg, will I have to do the same and weigh it precisely to make sure it’s exactly the same each night? Or because of its long half life, will it be ok to just take the half, as long as I take the other half the next night? Will my body not feel the minute difference between the two halves as it does with zolpidem? (I’ve bought an aluminium pill cutter as you suggested, but obviously it won’t be accurate down to the tiniest fraction)

[[sl...]]

You're not driving me crazy Ktkat999. 

 

Yeah, I hear that you feel small changes in dosage. This is because the zolpidem half-life is absurdly short. I can understand why you'd feel swings in dosage with even very small reductions because that 1% reduction is felt entirely within the day. I reduce daily by 0.43% of my clonazepam per day, and I would NOT want to go faster. I suspect a 1% reduction in your dosage is going to hit you like being in the middle of a 14%/14 day taper, which is generally not well tolerated (5-10% is recommended and some people need to go slower). I can barely do 6%/14 days. This is why I don't think you're super sensitive; I think you've just reached the end of the line with Ambien and you're too sensitive for it's boom-and-bust usage cycle.

 

Once your on a therapeutic dose of diazepam, I think this sensitivity is going to disappear for you; I'm certain of that. Diazepam is so slow to be eliminated from the body that small reductions are often not felt for weeks if at all. It's marvelous in that respect, and this is why I suggest the crossover. Even if you dosed somewhat erratically with diazepam (which I don't recommend), the long half-life will be constantly smoothing these changes out. Life gets so much easier on a longer half-life medicine; I am really wishing you had this ease and convenience now because I hear it's so needed!

 

So I think you're aiming for something you really need: a much longer half-life, and diazepam is the best candidate I know of. I'd be on it too but my body so far is tolerating clonazepam very well and I use a DMT to artificially create a slower, smoother reduction in medication. Diazepam will do this slow reduction automatically; it's very desirable.

 

The mountain ahead of you is a little precarious; you're considering crossing over and that passing may be a few days to a couple weeks of hard days. But I hope I've helped to illustrate the reward on the other side; even Ativan, which many buddies struggle to taper, would be a far cry better than Ambien, but I'm suggesting to aim for the best: that's diazepam. You deserve the best!

 

Please keep us posted! More questions are welcome. I want you to have all the support you can, here on the forum and in the real world.

[[Pa...]]

Ktkat999,

Thanks for explaining more of your situation to me. I'm so sorry to hear how difficult this has been for you. I am concerned because benzo tapering alone doesn't seem like it will address the variety of difficulties you described, and tapering itself can be mentally and physically taxing. Unfortunately I can only offer you tapering suggestions, but I hope that you can receive more care for your other health struggles; you deserve to feel better!

 

The doctor is willing to prescribe valium but I’m still waiting for the prescription. Still going back and forth in my mind, though. Can’t help feeling from everything I’ve read on these boards and what pamster said that I’d be transferring to a worse drug with more likelihood of protracted withdrawal. But in my current state I don’t think my body could take tapering the ambien directly... But am I adding months or years to my sentence by moving to Valium?...

I highly doubt that Pamster has said that diazepam is "a worse drug with more likelihood of protracted withdrawal". It should be just the opposite.

 

Framing benzo use as a prison is something I do regretfully often and it's not helpful for me. I believe that benzo use is delay tactic, and while it is over-prescribed, I think that we can still glean this benefit of delay as we find our way out of the maze, assuming we keep in mind that this is only ever a short-term, high-cost delay.

 

Diazepam is an excellent benzo if your body can tolerate it. It will lengthen your "sentence" in exchange for minimizing your withdrawal symptoms; that's just the nature of slow benzo tapering. For someone struggling like you are, I can only see this as a good thing.

 

Also your Ambien dosage is so low, you won't be on very much diazepam; some people crossover and start tapering from 30-40mg of diazepam because like myself they were on the equivalent of something like 2mg of clonazepam (Klonopin). I have several years of tapering ahead of me; instead you are far closer to the finish line. But it looks like that finish line isn't getting any closer with your current usage of Ambien.

 

You've got a suggested crossover schedule, you've got a diazepam script coming to you (I hope they gave you 2mg tablets), I think you'll want a good aluminum pill cutter, and as far as I can tell you don't have much to lose by trying the crossover!

 

It's your decision. So much of healing is self-empowerment and choice, so I celebrate that this forum is all about giving suggestions and allowing buddies to choose for themselves. I support you going back and forth in your head as long as you need to but I wanted to clarify some points you made which I didn't think were accurate.

Let us know what you decide! We're all cheering for you! 

 

You're correct slownsteady, I doubt I said that, I never discuss the possibility of protracted withdrawal for two reasons, no one can state what exactly the time frame is for protracted withdrawal and I don't make predictions like that, it would be negligence on my part.

 

I might have said I'm more afraid of a true benzo in terms of symptoms and withdrawal than I am of a z-drug because my own experience taught me that one was far easier to quit than the other. 

 

I've supported Ktkat999 with whatever method she chooses to use to find her way out of this nightmare and I still do. 

[[Kt...]]

Thank you both. I’m sorry I misunderstood, pamster - my brain is like crazy mush at the moment!

Slownsteady thank you so much again for your reply. I’m being brief as my eyes won’t let me use my screen much, but I’ll reply properly when they’re better

 

Katie

[[Pa...]]

No worries Ktkat, we understand how difficult it is to think and absorb information while going through this, I had difficulty with looking at the computer too, the stupid smiley's drove me nuts, hated them!