bad information on Reddit

[[Ju...]]

So you're under the impression that street drugs don't cause addiction the same way as psychiatric medicine? Where did you come up with that idea? They are both drugs and you can become mentally dependent on them, and you can even become more mentally dependent on psychiatric meds. The definition of addiction is literally becoming mentally dependent on something. And that's what people do with every single psychiatric drug, that's why it's called psychiatric.

 

People actually become more physically dependent and more mentally dependent on prescription medicine then any other kind of drug, including street drugs. So to be completely immune to drug addiction just because you have a prescription, makes no sense whatsoever. A prescription has nothing to do with it actually. Why would drug addiction care if you have a prescription or not? It's a biological phenomenon.

 

I think where everybody is getting confused is because they're saying to themselves, I have a prescription or I have a reason to take it. But why would the human body care why you're taking it? It doesn't. And your body doesn't care whether or not it's legal either. All your body knows is how to react to the pill that you're putting in your body. And upon stopping the pill, your body knows how to react AKA withdrawal. And if your body is addicted to it, or dependent as you want to call it, which is the same thing, it will have problems for a long time trying to readjust to how it was from birth.

 

So for anybody to say they are not addicted just because they have a prescription or just because it's a certain kind of drug, like psychiatric compared to Street, makes no sense at all. You have to think about science, science doesn't care what you're taking it for or what kind of drug it is.

 

Also, the human body doesn't care if it's over the counter or not. Whether you're taking codeine over the counter because it's legal, or you live in a country where it's not legal, it's the same drug to your body regardless. Or if you're taking legal amphetamines, they could make illegal the next day, so does it have anything to do with addiction? No it doesn't. Your body is going to react the same whether it's legal or not.

 

And people actually have the most trouble getting off of psychiatric drugs because those are the most addictive, people just don't see them as addictive because people don't use them as recreational drugs. Nobody ever went out there and said I'm going to take some antipsychotics or some antidepressants and get really high today for fun with their friends. That's why people don't think of them as addictive. But just because a doctor recommends something doesn't mean that it's safe or that it's not addictive.

 

I think people forget about opiates on benzo buddies. Those people were instructed to take opiates and those are also FDA-approved and prescribed and legal. And some of those people took them for the exact same amount of time as benzos. And when they quit, they found out they were addicted. So then they had to take methadone or Suboxone.

 

If there was a withdrawal medicine for benzos, everybody would be taking it. So why would you think that you can take a controlled drug and end up with drug withdrawal and end up on an online support group but for some reason your immune to being a drug addict? Sometimes you guys don't make any sense.

[Guest [pa...]]

No, I'm saying that street drugs cause both dependence and addiction and most psychiatric drugs only dependence. It's very easy to OD on TCAs for example. But you aren't likey to OD on them unless that's specifically what you set out to do, because TCAs don't cause dopamine rush. So, they're uncontrolled and labelled non-addictive even though withdrawal from them may get so bad as to make it impossible to withdraw (or drive you to suicide), which isn't the case with street drugs. On the other hand porn and sugar are both addictive. But you can't OD on them, and they don't cause dependence, only addiction.

[Guest [ba...]]

These dependence versus addiction exchanges often start out well-intended, but rarely end up that way.  Let's please not get personal or take things personally or we'll have to lock the thread.

[[cl...]]

"Once you become dependent on something, whether it's physically or mentally or overall, that means you are addicted. Just like we are addicted to water and food. We're also all addicted to sleep."

 

I'm fairly sure science would not include food, water and sleep as "addictions."  If that was the case, all warm and cold blooded animals would share this addiction, life itself being impossible without them, making the word too broad for usefulness.

 

Neither would we say a paraplegic is addicted to a wheelchair, or a cancer patient is addicted to chemo, or a diabetic is addicted to insulin, or any number of other unfortunate medical interventions necessary for survival.

 

Still, it's an interesting argument and you all make excellent points.  It's true, the medical world is long overdue in nailing down definitions, as "addiction" and "dependence" have significant connotations. 

[[Ca...]]

...at the risk of being repetitive..

-and for those that are interested...

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/2016/09/05/dont-harm-them-twice-when-the-language-surrounding-benzodiazepines-adds-insult-to-injury-part-1/

 

 

 

 

[Guest [pa...]]

I'm fairly sure science would not include food, water and sleep as "addictions."  If that was the case, all warm and cold blooded animals would share this addiction, life itself being impossible without them, making the word too broad for usefulness.

That's the thing. You're dependent on food, water, sleep, etc. you are not addicted to them. But you can get addicted to certain foods (fatty and sugary food cause dopamine rush). However you can't get addicted to water, or sleep. Likewise you can get addicted to things that you can't  get dependent on (e.g. video games, porn).

[[Ju...]]

But you can get addicted to water, I've been addicted to it when I was on benzos. I used to carry a Camelbak water bottle with me 24/7 anywhere that I went and I didn't feel OK unless I had it with me, it was like OCD but it was an addiction. I would feel the need to drink it even when I wasn't thirsty. Everybody would always ask me why I have my water with me constantly. I never had an answer for them other than I'm addicted to it.

 

And you can get dependent on sugar, if you eat lots of sugar for months and months straight, when you quit eating it you will be in a really horrible mood and you won't feel right and you will be run down and lazy and miserable for a while.

 

And you can get dependent on porn, lots of people get all anxious and don't know what to do with themselves when they haven't watched porn and relieve themselves in a long time. They don't get sick if they don't have it, but they have mental problems because of it.

 

And there's people that have dopamine problems because of sleeping too much. Some people sleep all day and they are very depressed, instead of getting up and doing some physical exercise to get some endorphins going and natural feel good chemicals in their brain. And because of that, it's a repetitive cycle of depression. So maybe that one's not addiction but they need their sleep more than other people because they do it too much.

 

So you're right, maybe benzos and food and porn and everything else, maybe it's not an addiction at all. But whenever you talk to somebody and they do something more than everybody else and they can't stop, usually they label that as an addiction. I've even heard people say they're addicted to coloring, like they have to do it nonstop.

 

So I mean maybe you don't consider it an addiction because you don't put everything into a general label. But if you're just having a casual conversation with a friend, and you say I'm addicted to water or I'm addicted to pills or I'm addicted to this food, basically you're addicted to something because you can't stop doing it. It doesn't matter what the technical term is, it's just how you describe it.

 

So I see where you're coming from, no we didn't take benzodiazepines to get high. But that doesn't mean that we weren't addicted to them. It just depends who you ask. It depends what their version of the word is. But you shouldn't take it personally or negatively, it's just a word.

 

And you also have to remember that doctors think benzodiazepines are some of the most addictive substances known to man. So if you tell them that you're having withdrawal, they're going to say you're addicted to them. Why else would you have withdrawal? Dependent AKA addicted.

 

And here's some more food for thought, whenever you say you're physically dependent, do you think that your brain is not part of your physical self? Your brain is part of your body, so if your brain needs the pills, that means it's also psychologically addicted. Your brain is also part of your psychology. So it doesn't matter if you're dependent or addicted, it's the same thing in your brain.

[[JG...]]

I think the problem with Reddit is that it's got a very macho culture of brutalism more generally, although in terms of peddling false information, trolls and so forth, I personally think Twitter and Facebook are worse. Reddit's definitely not the place for peer-reviewed, robust independent research, and the subs are only as good as the moderators, who are, inevitably, a mixed bag. If you have a reddit sub that is overwhelmed with inappropriate posts, I think they have a report function, but to be honest, signposting people away from inappropriate or dangerous advice on the internet (whether reddit or elsewhere) is a bit like raging against the dying of the light, with apologies to Dylan Thomas.

[[He...]]

I usually say I became dependent on benzos.  I know this because when I tried to stop I had withdrawals.  I also know this because when the doctor advised me to stop, I said 'why?  I'm not addicted'.  He said 'I suspect you are by now'.  That bothered me.  I knew it, too.  But the idea of stopping frightened me.  Please let me keep the pills, right?

 

So was I addicted or dependent?  I have asked myself this many times.  I did not seek the drug, I did not crave the drug.  I felt I needed the drug to cope.  I pretended I did not, in hopes I could keep getting it.  The word dependent sounds softer and it's easier to say that one.  Slippery slope.

 

I have a friend who buys her benzos off a friend down the road.  It disturbs and scares me.  I have advised her that she can become addicted.  She says no way.  She says she has it under control.  I ask her what are the actual benzos and dose.  She doesn't know.  I ask her why?  she just likes it.

 

Is she addicted or dependent?  When I described my withdrawal, she almost did not believe me.  She suggested that maybe some people are stronger.  I tried to explain that there is no way to determine this in advance, it's not a willpower or stronger weaker thing.

 

She takes her benzos for fun.  I took mine for anxiety.  Hers were street.  Mine were prescribed.  I experienced withdrawal.  So will she someday.  In these ways we are equal.

 

We are both women in our mid 60s.  Not young.  Not stupid.  Nice people.

 

Recently a friend of mine was shocked when I said I had become dependent on prescription pills.  He actually looked horrified.  He started talking about street addicts in this very condescending way.  How stupid they were, why they made that stupid choice etc.  I asked him what the difference was between them and me?  He didn't know.  I explained they were coping or whatever, and so was I.  We just came to it down a different road.  I don't feel superior to them.  I realize I could just as easily be outside homeless drug seeking as inside not homeless with a comforting prescription when I take my pill.

 

We both end up on the same pill.  We both suffer withdrawals when we try to stop.

 

People are so uneducated.  They get lost in semantics and judgement. 

 

I'm not sure what my point is here exactly.  But, if someone says I was 'addicted' I probably will have to agree and then educate them on my unique experience.  So they can learn that nice, mature, smart people can just as easily become dependent or addicted as can younger street people.  The drugs don't care who you are.

 

 

[[ci...]]

I'm over there on Reddit as well...I WAS in 2 benzo-related groups:  1)  BENZO RECOVERY and 2)BENZODIAZEPINES...The latter is filled with folks "bragging" about the amount of (u pick the drug) that they took the prior weekend..and how "effed" up they were.....sigh..made me sad reading those stories..so I left it..still am in the B.R. group but I agree with my fellow posters...Lots of misinformation being given out...a bit depressing so I am an infrequent visitor over there..BB is home..haven't posted much this year..I will try to improve:)

 

Anyhoo, that was my 2 cents...

 

Happy holidays fellow BB members..

 

Let us all hope for a better year in 2021..

 

Cinnabar

[[Ju...]]

I agree with what was said on the last two posts. Especially from healing 64. It doesn't matter if you call it addikted or dependent because it's the same thing. It's just that some people like to compare drug addicts to meth heads and people that steal. But the reality is people get addicted to every kind of drug. Benzos are no different.

 

The only way benzos are different is because you don't get effed up like they say on Reddit, not in the same way at least. The Euphoria is in the loss of anxiety, not in a high. So do they make you feel better, of course. Do they make you hallucinate and feel like heroin? No they don't. But are they addictive? Yes for sure.

 

And once we are completely healed 100%, will we care whether or not we were addicted or dependent? Most likely no not at all. So it's just a argument really, a senseless argument.

 

Sometimes when people think they are better than I drug addict I will stir them up on purpose just because they are arguing with somebody that's been through the same thing and trying to put them down. So on this Christmas I'm going to be nice.

[[Fr...]]

I personally disagree with the original comment. I will see a lot of people being firm that people should not cold turkey due to risk of seizures. I find them to be up lifting. A lot of the times someone will say I have been off for two months and feeling a little better. On there people will support and say great job. On here I have seen a lot of well wait until you hit the six month wave like it is a given. The speaking of amounts gives it somewhat of an AA or NA feeling. It doesn't come off as a who did more. Like other people have mentioned there is a benzos group on reddit that promotes high use. Glorifies it. That group is hard to read because you know those people are younger. I have seen ages like 59's and 60's on reddit benzos recovery. Just my two cents.