Lamictal (or Lamotragine) & Phenobarbital replacement - Success!

[[pi...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

I wanted to share with you how I safely got off Klonopin after 18 years of daily use.  I went to a Dr. just over a month ago who ramped up a mood stabilizer called Lamictal (generic Lamotragine) that I had been on a small dose of for 2 years or so.  I say this because if anyone decides after reading this to try this approach with a Dr, they will need to ramp you up.  Anyway, I was on 75mg a night, then upped to 100mg twice a day for 1 week.  Week 2, I cut from my daily 1mg of Klonopin (sometimes more, depending) to .5 for another 2 weeks.  This is when the sx starting really sucking (headaches, dizziness, muscle pain, nausea, GI issues).  After 2 weeks on .5mg, I started phenobarbital: 30mg 3 times a day and CUT the Klonopin entirely.

 

A note on Klonopin for those who don't know - the half life is 72 hours, despite what you may have read or been told.  Because of this, you are most at risk for a seizure days 4 and 5 completely off the benzo (don't worry about the first 3 days - it's still very much in you), hence the Phenobarbital (anti-seizure) and Lamical (mood stabilizer & anti seizure).  Most people do all of this in a 3 week in-patient detox.  I chose not to.  I did have to take more phenobarbital for day 4 & 5 because you are supposed to be slightly slurry and on 90mg I was just too lucid, so I was up to 210mg for days 3, 4, 5 & 6.

 

Day 4 and 5 you will most likely experience, in addition to the other sx, hallucinations - visually or auditory (tinnitus or other abnormal hearing) and taste.  I had visual hallucinations, but was hunkered down - when you are on phenobarbital, you can't drive.  I had a loss of appetite too and just drank a lot of sparkling water.  Pepto Bismal is ok for nausea, as well.

 

After day 7 completely without a benzo in your system, physiologically speaking, you are not at risk for seizures.  I didn't have a problem and remember - I had benzos in my system for 18 years.

 

After day 7 off the K, I started tapering from the phenobarb down to a very low dose (30mg) in 1 week.  I am still on the Lamictal for now - I will still experience sx for probably 18 months due to the long term use, but I am safely benzo-free and on day 13!!  Once I'm off everything, or just the phenobarb and back down a bit on the Lamictal (I probably need it for my brain chemistry circumstances), I could use GABApentin (some know this as Neurontin or other brand names) for the year, year and 1/2 to help cut down the sx.

 

If anyone else has tried this method, I'd love feedback - and if you haven't but are interested, let me know!  I feel very lucky!!

[[el...]]

Hi Piano,

 

I"m glad you are doing well, but we have had quite a few members who have withdrawn from benzodiazepines through a detox as you have, and there haven't been many positive experiences. They ended up here for help.

 

Once you get off the supportive meds, you will still be dealing with a discontinuation of benzodiazepines following long term use, along with discontinuation of the new meds. Keep in mind you must taper carefully off these meds. (Lamectil, Phenobarbitol, and neurontin.) Lamectil is particularly difficult.

 

I think most people would choose doing a slow, safe taper off of one medication rather than replacing it with three very heavy-duty neurological and psychiatric meds.  

 

The half-life of klonopin (Clonazepam) is 18-50 hours.  

[[Pr...]]

Just curious, Piano. What did your "abnormal hearing" entail?

 

Glad you're feeling okay

[[pa...]]

Congrats on getting off of klonopin... How long has it been since you last took klonopin? Hopefully your detox will go better then what I've seen in the past.

My only concern for you isnt the klonopin but the lamictal as well. I saved lamictal for last because it was supposed to be the easiest but its pure hell, much worse then ativan withdrawal. Alot of people had told me they had no symptoms at all, but I wonder how many of them came off AFTER coming off a benzo... I hope you'll do a little reading, theres only a little reading to be done on lamictal anyway, and be cautious.

Hope things continue going well,

Amanda

[[pi...]]

Hi Paxton & ELJAY,

 

First of all, thank you for the encouragement?  I did say that I was already on a small dose of Lamical (75mg for several years).  That's due to the fact that there is a severe chemical imbalance that runs on both sides of my family and I'm a first generation child of parents who are both seriously affected.  I've dealt with antidepressants for a long time and much prefer a mood stablizer.  Getting off Effexor and Cymbalta, prior to that were awful and extremely difficult.  I have also taken tricyclics and SSRIs that have become ineffective over time, so I've had to switch.  I know what my body and mind need for balance since I have dealt with going off of everything and seen myself and my life fall apart 3 times.  I am a sole home owner, started a successful music company 9 years ago that is now global, with many employees, etc. and am fortunate enough to make a living as a musician.  I say to illustrate that I am not irresponsible or frivolous about what I posted.

 

I haven't started Neurontin yet - and will take heed from everyone about it.  I don't plan on jumping into it. 

 

I've been off the barbituate for 3 days now after a fast taper (but hey, it was a fast ramp up - on and off in less than 2 weeks) & while I am experiencing sx like everyone else, I just stated that I did it safely in this manner without a seizure.

 

As far as the half life of Clonazepam, I know that as far as a "Wikipedia definition" goes, it says 18 - 50 hours, but the research I have done with global A:B patients seems much longer, the longer the subject is on it.  It was also my experience when I was at the worst in the wd.

 

I wasn't posting my experience to hurt anyone, just to share my experience and hope for some feedback.  I know a lot of anxiety sufferers also deal with andogenous depression and other genetic disorders or neurotranmitter shortcomings, so this less conventional method I hoped may help some.

 

I have found this forum so incredibly helpful and informative - the support most of all.  I'm sure I will be visiting for a long time and am greatful for all of the kindness and help.

 

For Princezz:  I've had tinnitus in my left ear that has varied in pitch and volume for 5 days now.

 

Peace on day 15 - benzo free (and now barbituate free)!

 

[[pa...]]

Hi Piano,

Sorry if I'm not encouraging. I've seen a bunch of detox stories and not many have ended well. I HOPE yours is different, truly hope that you are one of the exceptions. But I'm sure you looked into the risks of going this route and know what may happen. I personally have no experience with it, I thought my 8 month taper off ativan was hard enough. But for the lamictal, the name alone sends a literal tremor through me. Since you said you were planning on backing down in the future I just wanted to tell you that IMO its the pill from hell. Hopefully your taper down is very much unlike my own.

Good luck

Amanda

[[xe...]]

I think most people here have little fascination with the exact science of preventing a seizure by jumping on numerous heavy-duty addictive psychoactive drugs.. I am glad you are so positive, but I hope you stay that way for months to come.. I have absolutely nothing but bad experience getting on one drug to get off another, it always winds up (much) worse in the end.

 

Neurontin has w/d reported to it akin to benzos, it is most definitely GABAergic. I would never touch the stuff.

[[...]]

I did a phenobarb cross-over and it did reduce the withdrawal until i stopped taking it.  The half life of this drug is extraordinarily long so it took a week or two before it really hit me.  The thing about this drug is that it's cross-tolerant to benzos so it's really like just switching to a different benzo as opposed to "getting off" of one.  Once it works its way out of your system, you will resume having withdrawal symptoms IF you are meant to have them.

 

I don't want to discourage you, but I do want to warn others who might read this and try this method.  If there is one thing I know for certain, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY to avoid benzo withdrawal or to speed it up.  Everyone will experience whatever they are meant to experience until the gaba down regulation has completely reversed and any drug or supplement you take will either do nothing or will interfere with the healing process.

[[JJ...]]

Everyone will experience whatever they are meant to experience until the gaba down regulation has completely reversed

 

well said.

[Guest [Si...]]

Everyone will experience whatever they are meant to experience until the gaba down regulation has completely reversed

 

well said.

 

Agreed.

 

S#