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This is my second night same meds no sleep. I double my dose tonight and still nothing. 4 sleepless nights this week. Should I jump? If they aren’t working what’s the point. 2.8zop, 1.5val please help
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This is my second night same meds no sleep. I double my dose tonight and still nothing. 4 sleepless nights this week. Should I jump? If they aren’t working what’s the point. 2.8zop, 1.5val please help

DONT jump at 1.5 val it will make you worse. What dose did you last feel good at?

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I was doing ok at 3.75 zop. But honestly I haven’t felt well the entire time. I only just started Valium in April

What dose did you start val?

You may have cut too quick.

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I’ve only ever been on 1.5mg Valium. I have kept it the same whole time

Hi

There are things that worsen withdrawal such as cigarette smoking

Eating cruciferous vegetables and other things like pepper that mess with the enzymes that we use to metabolise valium.

All of these things can have an effect on withdrawal.

I don't know if you smoke, I don't know if you eat cabbage, kale, cauliflorwer or other cruficerous veg, rapeseed oil is another one, pepper.

All of these things can have a bad effect on withdrwawal because they interfere with metabolism.

I don't know the equivalent valium zopiclone dose, if you did not gradually cross over from zop to valium, that will take time to recover from as you are supposed to do a gradual crossover.

Hope that helps for now.

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Hi journey. No I don’t smoke and don’t eat any of those foods. I do eat cauliflower but not since my last cut. I don’t drink alcohol and I don’t drink coffee. All I know is I was doing ok til that last cut. I’m sure if I hold steady it will even out. I hope
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Hi journey. No I don’t smoke and don’t eat any of those foods. I do eat cauliflower but not since my last cut. I don’t drink alcohol and I don’t drink coffee. All I know is I was doing ok til that last cut. I’m sure if I hold steady it will even out. I hope

What was the val dose you cut from? and how much did you cut by? when did you cut?

Asking in the hopes I can be of help.

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U really don’t know how much I appreciate this. Thanku journey. I was taking 2 x 7.5mg zopiclone a night, I reduced down to 1 x 7.5 zopiclone fairly easily, but then things started to get bumpy. It was actually June I started to take Valium as my dr suggested it might help interdose withdrawals. I was going ok getting 4-5 hrs sleep a night then I dropped to 3/4 of a 7.5mg tab. Started getting a couple of nights that I don’t think I slept if I did it wasn’t for long, but then it evened out and I was getting 3-5.5 hours a night. I went down another 1/8th of a tablet to 4.68mg and sleep still stayed the same, so after another 2 weeks I dropped another 1/8th down to 3.75mg. Again sleep stayed between 3-5 hours so after another 2 weeks on 3.75 I dropped another 1/8th of a tab bringing it to 2.8mg. The first few days were ok but I have not sleep 4 nights since this reduction. I haven’t changed Valium dosage at all during this time except last night I took another dose because I was so desperate to sleep. I did nothing x
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I should have said the double dose did nothing. I feel like do I just bite the bullet and flick the zopiclone. And keep the Valium. Or do I try to reduce Valium so I can jump from both at once. God I just want this to end x
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Shayna, sorry. I don't know if this is any use.

In a way, I'm just trying to  follow any answers to your thread.

But... I know nothing about Zopiclone except that I've tried it once years ago and it was of no use to me.

As for valium... I kind of want to know the same thing. I've been parked on 4mg for over 2 years maybe. (I honestly don't know without checking my diaries...) But that was a drastic reduction from years of abuse on my part. Plus using alcohol too.

So I am definitely clinically dependent on the valium but the dose became useless and paradoxical, leading me to supplement it with alcohol, daily, for months now. Anyway... None of that was working so I cut out the alcohol and then found the diazepam doesn't do anything except make me agitated. So I jumped off that about 236 hours ( ;D not that I'm counting! )

This is far from my first attempt at this but it is the longest and I'm really determined to make it my last. I have accepted that not sleeping will be a thing for some time, among all the other symptoms, but this time I have the support of my family and others and do not intend to back down and re-instate. I'm reacting disproportionately to really pretty minor stressors and experiencing a range of symptoms that I knew would come. Yet I have not taken even a tiny dose to cope and don't intend to. I think 1.5mg would make it worse at this stage.

But that is me, sorry to try to hi-jack your thread.

Personally, if I were you, with what I know now, I wouldn't want to leave zopiclone only to then have to taper off valium, but that is for you to discuss and figure out. Like I said, I don't know how bad the zopiclone is, having not been down that road. All I can suggest is that you play it by ear wait for a much more knowledgeable answer than mine. I am interested to see what others may say about this.

There's a lot of experience here and, more importantly, a lot of support. I may be on here for a while myself, though I've been absent so long I can't find my own page yet. lol. To me; jumping off 1.5 mg diazepam doesn't seem that much. But we are all so differently affected... I wouldn't like to definitively try to advise either way. I'm really not that clued up!!

Wishing you the very best in your efforts and hope that you can pick some sense out of my jibber jabber. Feel free to talk some if you are up feeling rank. I fully expect I'll be around for many, many nights to come. And days and in between times etc. Sometimes sharing is the best we can do. Though I am confident someone will have a better answer than mine soon.

Best regards for now and hang in there. (Off to find my own story, if possible. It's been a while..  :) )

 

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Thanku so much for ur reply challenge. God it makes me cry every time I read someone’s story. I think out of devastation this has happened to another person but also just outpouring of oneness with you all x u make me feel like I can do it. So I jumped from 4? We’re u having trouble sleeping before jump? How much are u sleeping now? I just feel like, if I’m not sleeping on the meds, I’d rather jump now than putting myself they weeks of weaning. Thanks so much for ur reply. U had no idea how much it means to have the support x
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Shayna, sorry, I was away reading.  Yeah, I was never a great sleeper, not even as a kid. It started catching up with me about 15 years ago... as in became a problem. (Well actually it has always been a problem, falling asleep in classes, flunking exams, etc...) What I mean is I used to be fine being a night owl. Then anxiety set in at some stage and used drugs/drink to get longer and deeper sleep. Or so I believed.

Yes, I was having trouble sleeping before my jump. It is very bad for now. Luckily, I have the flexibility to sleep  a little during the day. Not everyone has this option. I don't know how long I can expect it to last but I'm hazarding a guess that I'll be struggling for a least a month with the symptoms. Hopefully then it will be time to try something new to get a sleep routine. Not a medicine. Some other way. I don't know what yet...

I've got a big stack of books to read and I'm eating as best I can but not able to exercise much at all. Just don't want to dive into a strict exercise plan too soon because of the phantom aches that occur during valium withdrawal. I am anxious enough without spraining muscles around my chest area. As I'm sure you can imagine.

What kind of symptoms are most troubling you regarding coming off zopiclone? I tried them once for sleep but found that they were effective for about 20 minutes of sleep but then woke up with some weird eye functions. So never bothered with that medicine again. If you know what symptoms are going to come, maybe you can plan ahead for some of them. I had thought about getting some aspirin in for muscle and headaches but they come and go as they please, so I decided against. I'm eating more bananas to help with the muscle stuff (magnesium, I think... but also tryptophan is meant to help with sleep issues.)

Anyway, don't cry for me, this has been largely my own fault and I delayed for way too long. Besides, I'm sure I'll be crying enough myself soon enough... :idiot::laugh:

But as to the diazepam, yes 4mg or maybe 5 was my average dose and it was not helping at all. Maybe it was making me feel worse overall? In fact, I know it really. It did help me for years. But I overused it and became too dependent on it. Now it is a dead end for me. You may still get some use out of it. I don't know. We are all different. If it isn't helping you by now though, I can see that it ever will...

That's 5 am here and I've got an appointment at 11 am. It doesn't look like I'll be sleeping much, so  I'll be slurring my speech and acting unsteadily. But at least I am becoming me again. Again though, I'm lucky. The appointment is at home and I can struggle through it and maybe grab  a nap in the afternoon. Plus the person coming has knowledge of my medical background and they don't judge. Though this will be the first we meet properly, you know? The real me. Unmedicated and vulnerable...

Here is hoping you are asleep and get at least a few hours. I'm intending to be around for a good few days yet. Please do continue to share how you are doing. Or what you are deciding. Take care and try not to worry. Whatever you decide doesn't have to be set in stone. Play it by ear and trust your own instincts. Oh.. I nearly yawned there... A good sign for me??  :)

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Hello x just the insomnia really is my main symptom. If I sleep I feel pretty good, compared to how bad I felt on higher doses. If u are able to sleep, maybe try cbti? Spose to be great helping people consolidate their sleep, although it didn’t work for me due to wd, but I plan on trying again once I’m off. I’ll be around too no doubt, thanks so much for the support it really helps. I hope ur appointment goes well, I’m sure u will do fine. I think we always expect the worst be suprise ourselves who we can pull it together when we need to. There’s a podcast about cbti called insomnia coach so u can get an idea what it’s all about  :smitten:
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Thanku so much for ur reply challenge. God it makes me cry every time I read someone’s story. I think out of devastation this has happened to another person but also just outpouring of oneness with you all x u make me feel like I can do it. So I jumped from 4? We’re u having trouble sleeping before jump? How much are u sleeping now? I just feel like, if I’m not sleeping on the meds, I’d rather jump now than putting myself they weeks of weaning. Thanks so much for ur reply. U had no idea how much it means to have the support x

Please don't jump.

Please see my last post in this thread to you.

You are taking both zopiclone and valium, these have differing half lives and differing durations of actions, this is what is messing your GABA system up. PLEASE DO NOT JUMP your insomnia will get much worse.

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Thanks journey. So u think it’s best to continue zop wean then once that’s done try wean Valium? I’ll try... the never ending wean is taking its toll. Xx
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Thanks journey. So u think it’s best to continue zop wean then once that’s done try wean Valium? I’ll try... the never ending wean is taking its toll. Xx

No, you need to continue taking valium and while doing so, gradually cross over from your zop dose to it's equivalent in valium so that you are on ALL valium.

There is an equivalency table online somewhere in the Ashton manual.

Once on all valium you can then start tapering.

 

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I hear you about the never-ending wean taking its toll Shayna. But listening to journey's advice does make sense to me. Better a seemingly never-ending taper than possible never ending insomnia plus withdrawals that can be avoided.

 

journey, you sound very together and measured. This is maybe because you are sticking to a taper plan? Wish I had been this sensible. I hope you continue this way and it works! There is no easy way but there is  "bad" and "worse" and "better".

 

Shayna, I fell asleep just as the world around me was rising, again!! I felt so calm and nodded off. But the withdrawal-associated vivid dreams have left me back at shaky and weak and sore etc. I really do recommend doing all possible to avoid withdrawals. Yes, insomnia sucks. Agree: it seems seems to take forever. But there are no short cuts. It's all bad but you can make it easier or worse. (I made mine worse, but I wasn't at all clued up on tapering. And not that clever...)

But it turns out today's meeting was postponed anyway, so I grabbed what little sleep I could.

 

I'll look into cbti. Thanks for the tip. It may not work yet, due to withdrawals, but it may help in the future. I think sharing ideas, tips and discussion is helpful too. :) Bearing mind we all experience stuff differently, and at different paces and in different ways.

 

Together, humans stronger? Keep up the good work and be safe. I'm going to accept that today was a little down to begin with but may improve...  :)

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I hear you about the never-ending wean taking its toll Shayna. But listening to journey's advice does make sense to me. Better a seemingly never-ending taper than possible never ending insomnia plus withdrawals that can be avoided.

 

journey, you sound very together and measured. This is maybe because you are sticking to a taper plan? Wish I had been this sensible. I hope you continue this way and it works! There is no easy way but there is  "bad" and "worse" and "better".

 

Shayna, I fell asleep just as the world around me was rising, again!! I felt so calm and nodded off. But the withdrawal-associated vivid dreams have left me back at shaky and weak and sore etc. I really do recommend doing all possible to avoid withdrawals. Yes, insomnia sucks. Agree: it seems seems to take forever. But there are no short cuts. It's all bad but you can make it easier or worse. (I made mine worse, but I wasn't at all clued up on tapering. And not that clever...)

But it turns out today's meeting was postponed anyway, so I grabbed what little sleep I could.

 

I'll look into cbti. Thanks for the tip. It may not work yet, due to withdrawals, but it may help in the future. I think sharing ideas, tips and discussion is helpful too. :) Bearing mind we all experience stuff differently, and at different paces and in different ways.

 

Together, humans stronger? Keep up the good work and be safe. I'm going to accept that today was a little down to begin with but may improve...  :)

Thank you Challenge

 

It's not the taper that is bothering me, its the excess cortisol due to external non benzo stressors.

I'm scripted and only take valium.

If you check my posts, a few posts ago I posted how I titrated with milk, as I have been addicted before and slid off painlessly.

NOTE it was not WD that made me relapse it was external stressors, thinking the odd short half life hypno wouldn't do me any harm, but of course it escalated.

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Thanks journey. So u think it’s best to continue zop wean then once that’s done try wean Valium? I’ll try... the never ending wean is taking its toll. Xx

No, you need to continue taking valium and while doing so, gradually cross over from your zop dose to it's equivalent in valium so that you are on ALL valium.

There is an equivalency table online somewhere in the Ashton manual.

Once on all valium you can then start tapering.

 

Thanks journey, the equivalent zop to Valium is 5mg to 7.5mg zop. So because I am under 3.75mg zop, which would be 2.5mg Valium... I’m basically already taking the correct amount of Valium aren’t I?    So the equivalent in Valium to 2.8 zop would be 1.8mg Val.

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Thanku challenge and journey x I so appreciate ur replies and advice. So just so I’ve got this right, I should up my dosage of Val, cross over then continue tapering. At 1.8 mg Val? Sorry is my maths correct? Thanku!
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Thanks journey. So u think it’s best to continue zop wean then once that’s done try wean Valium? I’ll try... the never ending wean is taking its toll. Xx

No, you need to continue taking valium and while doing so, gradually cross over from your zop dose to it's equivalent in valium so that you are on ALL valium.

There is an equivalency table online somewhere in the Ashton manual.

Once on all valium you can then start tapering.

 

Thanks journey, the equivalent zop to Valium is 5mg to 7.5mg zop. So because I am under 3.75mg zop, which would be 2.5mg Valium... I’m basically already taking the correct amount of Valium aren’t I?    So the equivalent in Valium to 2.8 zop would be 1.8mg Val.

 

Stay on the valium you are on, and convert the zopiclone to its valium equivalent and add that to the valium you are already on so your whole dose is all val. Do this gradually . Sorry cant help with the maths.

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Thanks journey. So u think it’s best to continue zop wean then once that’s done try wean Valium? I’ll try... the never ending wean is taking its toll. Xx

No, you need to continue taking valium and while doing so, gradually cross over from your zop dose to it's equivalent in valium so that you are on ALL valium.

There is an equivalency table online somewhere in the Ashton manual.

Once on all valium you can then start tapering.

 

Thanks journey, the equivalent zop to Valium is 5mg to 7.5mg zop. So because I am under 3.75mg zop, which would be 2.5mg Valium... I’m basically already taking the correct amount of Valium aren’t I?    So the equivalent in Valium to 2.8 zop would be 1.8mg Val.

 

Stay on the valium you are on, and convert the zopiclone to its valium equivalent and add that to the valium you are already on so your whole dose is all val. Do this gradually . Sorry cant help with the maths.

 

Ok I understand. Then once I’m across do I just go by how I feel in taper? Or is there I time frame?

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Thanks journey. So u think it’s best to continue zop wean then once that’s done try wean Valium? I’ll try... the never ending wean is taking its toll. Xx

No, you need to continue taking valium and while doing so, gradually cross over from your zop dose to it's equivalent in valium so that you are on ALL valium.

There is an equivalency table online somewhere in the Ashton manual.

Once on all valium you can then start tapering.

 

Thanks journey, the equivalent zop to Valium is 5mg to 7.5mg zop. So because I am under 3.75mg zop, which would be 2.5mg Valium... I’m basically already taking the correct amount of Valium aren’t I?    So the equivalent in Valium to 2.8 zop would be 1.8mg Val.

 

Stay on the valium you are on, and convert the zopiclone to its valium equivalent and add that to the valium you are already on so your whole dose is all val. Do this gradually . Sorry cant help with the maths.

 

Ok I understand. Then once I’m across do I just go by how I feel in taper? Or is there I time frame?

There is no time frame, cuts have to be small, I preferred the milk titration as I slid off easily with no post withdrawal symptoms, you can get homogenised milk for vegetarians now, its got to be full fat.

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