I bet the majority of people don't make it

[[Ju...]]

After Pamster commented, it made me think about your comment on benzos and Fentanyl again. Like in your situation with your pain, nobody forced you to take benzos. So you're sitting there saying in one breath, we need to get out of the victim mentality. And then the next breath, you are saying you were not made aware of how the medicine was and almost sounding like it's the doctor's fault. So which one is it?

 

And then you wanted to start talking about the fentanyl crisis. Well it's the same thing, it's the people shooting up Fentanyl and snorting it on the street that are having problems. Nobody forced them to do that but they did it anyways. They went against medical advise. They did it recreationally. Maybe they would have been better off just getting an IV in the hospital under supervision. I've had fentanyl in the hospital multiple times and it's great and it helps. I don't know why they should ban it. There's always going to be stupid people doing stupid things.

 

So basically nothing you said makes any sense. Just because people have problems with drugs, does not mean the drug created the problem. That just means there's stupid people doing stupid things.

 

Fentanyl did not create the crisis, heroin did. And then it started getting cut with fentanyl. And yes there's people that take heroin and Fentanyl because of prescription opiates, but the doctor didn't tell them too. So that's their fault. Not the drugs.

 

And then with benzos, nobody forced you to take them for pain. Nobody forced anybody to take anything. Everybody on benzo buddies accepted their medication. I'm not saying the doctor wasn't partially at fault, but nobody should be dispensing them or controlling them. We all have free will and should take responsibility.

 

Banning drugs does not create problems. For example look at Colorado and Florida, look at all the drugs that are legal and widely prescribed, there's tons of problems. And then look at some more like here in North Carolina, where they are more conservative about things. Far less problems. I've lived in both States so I know.

 

When I was younger I used to think like you. I was like well if they ban something, it's going to create problems for the whole entire world and it's the bans fault. And then I grew up. I can think more clearly now. It's the people's fault. They should not be doing stupid things and should be taking responsibility for everything they do in life. Whether it's prescribed or not.

 

Everybody needs to remember, we have free will. Nobody forced us to smoke synthetic marijuana or shoot up Fentanyl or take heroin because our opiates ran out or self medicate or anything else. In fact, the doctors recommended against it. People just don't listen. As far as crime, and cartels and stuff, people always like to use them in arguments also. But that doesn't make any sense either. They will always be around regardless.

[[Ma...]]

Thank you Pamster.

 

Hey JustInTime.I think you are misinterpreting what I meant by prohibition causing the fentanyl crisis and some other things I said. Prohibition specifically causes drugs to be adulterated with other substances once they are in the black market. If heroin was legal or regulated for instance you wouldn't have to worry about it being cut with anything. That's pretty much all I meant by that. And cannabis being prohibited definitely caused people to replace it with synthetic cannabinoids, but mostly because people need to pass drug tests.

 

Banning a substance is not going to get rid of it because it will just end up on the black market and that's what I'm concerned about. I'm mostly concerned about adulteration and contaminants, and  the overall quality of these drugs. I should have been more clear about that. The most dangerous part about prohibition is that it creates stronger, more pure substances because it is more profitable and easier for bootleggers to deal with fentanyl. Banning something like kratom for instance, would cripple that industry because it is too bulky and most kratom users are not interested in extracts. Also, the kratom you would be able to get would probably be more likely to be contaminated and not lab tested for quality. As far as other aspects of social harm that legal and illegal drugs cause is a topic of a different type of discussion.

 

My concern with my original prescriber, (who happened to lose his medical license for overprescribing opioids and benzos btw), was the heavy scripts he gave me so willingly. He initially gave me a 1mg alprazolam, two week script, but when I went back a few weeks later he had me on 2mg of clonazepam all within the first month, which is ridiculous. The next month I was on 3mg of clonazepam. Plus he gave me Suboxone, baclofen and other meds. He even offered me Adderall, which I reluctantly turned down out of fear of death. He knew I was an addict and had mental health problems. So, I blame the guy for steering me wrong. He could have done more to help me. But at the same time, I was drug seeking die to my injury. I specifically went to him to begin with because I knew I would get those scripts. There is blame on both sides. I take responsibility for my bad decisions to a an extent. But I can't help but be resentful because he could have abided to more ethical prescribing guidelines.

 

If they changed the laws in how they prescribed benzos they would have to create some type of benzo clinic so some people can keep getting their benzos indefinitely at whatever dosage they needed until they were able to taper off, and I mentioned that previously.

[[Ju...]]

I hear you. I agree with your logic, about how if things are not criminalized and made unavailable, worse versions of things would not come out most likely. However, with China making synthetic versions of things, designer drugs, it's inevitable now. And you will always have doctors willing to prescribe in whatever amount they feel necessary.

 

For example, I was taking 8 mg of Klonopin per day just a few months ago. My doctor started me at 6 and increased to 8. That's about the highest dose you can possibly get that I've heard of it at least. I'm sure there's probably people getting 20 mg a day for seizures and stuff like that, I can't speak on that. Just like when I was in Florida, I had a pain clinic that was prescribing upwards of 200 mg of Oxycontin per day along with extended-release 80 mg morphine and Percocet for breakthrough pain.

 

Also, I was being prescribed valium at the same time. So all of these pills were prescribed at the same time. The doctors can't lose their license because they are not breaking any laws. They have informed their patients about the risks and if something happens to the patient, it's the patient's fault. That's how the pill Mills are able to keep functioning.

 

So about Fentanyl, fentanyl has been around for a long time. It didn't just come out whenever heroin started coming back really strong. People found that they could cut it and make it stronger for cheaper. But it would have been around regardless. So heroin did not create that problem, neither did other opiates.

 

Or with your example of Kratom, it does not matter if they ban that here, it grows in other countries as well. And it's no more bulky than marijuana. Marijuana has been on the market for a long time as well illegally, Nothing Stops it. So there's no slowing Kratom down, also people grow It in America and their own house and backyard.

 

Or take weed for example, yes a lot of people use synthetic weed so they don't have a urine test that's dirty, but then there's people like me that lived in Colorado and use Marinol to pass a piss test. That way you piss hot no matter what and it doesn't matter if you smoke weed from the dispensary or from the street, it's going to come up hot no matter what and you have an excuse from the prescription. Dronabinol is what it's called.

 

Or if you take something like benzos away, people use phenibut or barbiturates or kava or alcohol and other things instead. They also tried to get rid of barbiturates but they are still around. They got rid of Quaaludes a long time ago, but they are still in other countries. So there's no stopping Gaba drugs.

 

Or let's say they start doing prescriptions at a clinic, then it would be the same problem as methadone clinics and Suboxone clinics, people would have to go everyday or every week. You would find a couple doctors that are willing to do a month. And then people would have to pay cash. So how would you go to the clinic every day to get benzos while going through withdrawal? That creates problems.

 

And then you have the technicalities like if a clinic can prescribe, so can a regular doctor. Any medical doctor can prescribe anything they want. There are certain medicines that they have to have certain training to do so as well, things like Suboxone.

 

And then you have pill presses for things like the new Xanax with fentanyl, there's no stopping them. It comes from China. And then you always have people that are passing pills to family members and Friends. And then you have the people that hold on to them that don't even need them. And whoever wants to take it is going to most likely.

 

But I do agree with you and I get what you're saying, I'm making it really technical but that's how the world is. But I'm agreeing with you on the fact that once you ban something, worse things come out of it usually. But you're always going to have people that want to use drugs the wrong way and they will. Even if they have a prescription, they will still use them wrong. So there's really no stopping it. Either it's synthetic or it's not and either it's prescribed or it's not. And if people want something, they will get their hands on it somehow one way or the other.

[[Bi...]]

I was sitting here brainstorming how many different possibilities of things can go wrong when coming off of benzos. There's people that died as a result of withdrawal, there's people who committed suicide during it, there's people that got locked up in prison, and there's people that have accidents during withdrawal.

 

So considering how bad this last cold turkey was, I'm pretty sure that it would kill about half of the people that go through it. They wouldn't even have time to get on a site like this and type. We would never know about them. Doctors probably just call it natural causes.

 

And then there's the people that killed themselves, we might hear about it but most likely we won't. It's one of those subjects that are taboo in society, other than people that were on CNN and stuff like that. Or maybe if we know their family. Aside from that, we wouldn't know.

 

I'm sure there's lots of people that have car accidents or fall or whatever else, while going through benzo withdrawal. Who knows, maybe some people get shot out of anger or go to fast and run into something.

 

And now I'm thinking there's a lot of people in prison because of them, from committing crimes while on them or even coming off of them. Just like alcohol, I'm sure it's the same with benzos. I almost ended up in prison multiple times but luckily I wasn't a violent person and didn't do too many really over-the-top things, mostly just dumb small things. And I had a lot of control.

 

And then there's probably tons of people that overdose which we don't know about and just assume it's almost impossible but we don't know that. And then there's also the people that mix benzos with other CNS depressants and die.

 

Anyways, not trying to be all negative, it's just that I'm guessing we lose a good half of the people that took benzos, basically directly related to them. I'm sure there's probably tens of thousands of people that have died because of benzos. They just were not as lucky as us to be able to tell our stories and type on the internet.

 

You do sound like a person who is generally terrified of life.  This is obviously the reason they started you on benzo's but the problem is that benzo's just make you more nervous in the end.

 

My doctor put me on the worlds best remedy against worry.  Sleep deprivation therapy.  I am only allowed to sleep 4 hours per night now with 2 "cat naps" during the day. My brain is getting a big dose of natural gaba now.  I can't actually worry since I am always tired now.

 

Remember it was the INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION 170 years ago that forever changed human nature and gave use the "3 square meals per day" plus the "8 hour per night" sleep cycle to increase factory productivity. 

I times past we would only eat when hungry and only sleep when "Sleepy"  Some religious habits gave us 'Dinner' at sun-down but as for breakfast and lunch these are very new age concepts.

When it comes to eating people "nibble" by nature and eat about 20 tiny snacks per day and sleep 2 hours at a time about 4 times per day at various times with no pattern. We are classic insomniacs at night by nature, on the guard for danger and predators.  It's modern FACTORY/ OFFICE life that screwed our natural rhythms up.

My doctor taught me that "insomnia" only affects people who believe it is unnatural not to sleep from 10:00PM to 6:00AM

I sleep when I feel sleepy and stay awake when I can't sleep and do work in my home office late at night.

[[Ju...]]

I sleep whenever I get tired and whenever I feel like it throughout the day. I feel that my mental health is better overall when I can sleep when I want. Sometimes I sleep all night, and sometimes I only get a couple hours of sleep during the night and then I sleep a few hours during the day. I'm not really sure what controls my sleep. It's always different.

 

And with food, I eat when I'm hungry. I always eat as much as I want for the most part, although I have been trying to limit my diet a little bit because of getting a fat stomach. So I'm also trying to walk a little bit more everyday.

[[Le...]]

I just wanted to pipe in from WAY back in this thread that my husband told me the other day that my parking (in our driveway) has dramatically improved this year.    I remember (when I was on Benzos) being so embarrassed to find my car in a shopping parking lot totally crooked taking up 2 spaces when I returned to the car  .  Also, I guess my car had lots of dents in it that he got repaired while I was bedridden.    And.... I have had at least 2 occasions when I woke up after being out having only 1-2 glasses of wine (not knowing ANYTHING about Benzo and GABA) and racking my brain trying to figure out how I got home.  I drove.  All of this to LEARN from but you can laugh at it if you want since no one was hurt Thankfully. 

[[ki...]]

i had trouble even finding this board. the same day i found it on my phone was the day i tried to find on my computer and couldnt. thankfully i bookmarked it on my phone, but i had been researching for over a few months before this even popped up into G00gle results

[[ki...]]

i think the concept of "withdrawal" eludes most people. for example, a lot of people dont realize a hangover is actually a form of withdrawal. that's why they say to drink a beer in the morning to snuff it out. I have experienced withdrawal from booze so i understand the concept but if i didnt? this would be exponentially more difficult.

 

With benzos though, I don't know if people actually know whats going on, know where to look, know how to look, or know who to trust.

 

We have professionals because we cant possibly be an expert at everything so if they didn't warn us, and cant figure it out, then what hope can anyone have

 

Heck, I know my way around the internet, and even i had a hard time finding this place.

 

If the internet didn't exist I probably wouldn't make it. You would have to reveal yourself and your struggle to everyone just to try and find someone who has been through it and most people wont risk that.

[[Ju...]]

Yeah, benzo buddies was a lifesaver for me, or I would have went right back on them after a couple months.

[[Be...]]

I had to get off them because I was in tolerance and interdose w/d.  Had no choice. 

[[Ga...]]

i think the concept of "withdrawal" eludes most people. for example, a lot of people dont realize a hangover is actually a form of withdrawal. that's why they say to drink a beer in the morning to snuff it out. I have experienced withdrawal from booze so i understand the concept but if i didnt? this would be exponentially more difficult.

 

With benzos though, I don't know if people actually know whats going on, know where to look, know how to look, or know who to trust.

 

We have professionals because we cant possibly be an expert at everything so if they didn't warn us, and cant figure it out, then what hope can anyone have

 

Heck, I know my way around the internet, and even i had a hard time finding this place.

 

If the internet didn't exist I probably wouldn't make it. You would have to reveal yourself and your struggle to everyone just to try and find someone who has been through it and most people wont risk that.

 

You are so right!

 

I got no help from Drs or NP's

 

In real life, just one Pharmacist. Who seemed to know what benzo WD was like.

[[Pt...]]

i think the concept of "withdrawal" eludes most people. for example, a lot of people dont realize a hangover is actually a form of withdrawal. that's why they say to drink a beer in the morning to snuff it out. I have experienced withdrawal from booze so i understand the concept but if i didnt? this would be exponentially more difficult.

 

With benzos though, I don't know if people actually know whats going on, know where to look, know how to look, or know who to trust.

 

We have professionals because we cant possibly be an expert at everything so if they didn't warn us, and cant figure it out, then what hope can anyone have

 

Heck, I know my way around the internet, and even i had a hard time finding this place.

 

If the internet didn't exist I probably wouldn't make it. You would have to reveal yourself and your struggle to everyone just to try and find someone who has been through it and most people wont risk that.

 

You are so right!

 

I got no help from Drs or NP's

 

In real life, just one Pharmacist. Who seemed to know what benzo WD was like.

 

 

I had a pharmacist friend who told me I wouldn’t run into any problems taking Xanax every night for sleep for 6 months. It’s true that the medical community is largely ignorant and uneducated in this. They seem to think Benzos are just alcohol in a pill, which is so not true,

[[Ju...]]

Yeah I was having tolerance withdrawal also. Even with 8 mg of Klonopin a day, I would start going into withdrawal only about an hour after taking my last Klonopin. So I had to take them like clockwork.

 

And yeah, I had a stupid pharmacist telling me I wasn't experiencing withdrawal anymore just a few months ago. I called and said I needed to be back on them again, so they sent a message to the doctor and my doctor said no. And this pharmacist was like you're not having withdrawal anymore that only last for a couple weeks.

 

So I was like what are all the symptoms from then? He was like well that's probably just an anxiety condition and maybe you need to be on some antidepressants or something so you need to talk to your doctor about it. So he was one of those pharmacist that was telling me to go take some ssris as if it would help my benzo withdrawal.

 

And then I talked to the therapist at the mental health department of my doctor's office, and she said yeah you can take antidepressants for the rest of your life but you can't take benzos for the rest of your life, which didn't make any sense because you can take both of them as long as you want and either of them are going to give you problems if you take them over a few months in the first place.

 

I don't really think one is worse than the other or one is better than the other. All antidepressants are bad also , that's what I think and I don't really care what anybody else says about it. It's not backed by science and I don't have any links or anything like some moderators want, but it's really bad stuff and anybody that has taken them can tell you that.

 

The only people that think they're helping are the ones taking them. It's the same thing with benzos, the only people that think they help are the ones that are taking them. They also have some emergency uses but that's it.

[[Im...]]

Please check out this video:

 

 

I signed on just to help people like you (and me) because I have recently gotten LOTS of answers. It's not benzo w/d even though it looks/feels like it, not for me... maybe not for you. Benzo w/d is UGLY, don't get me wrong. But some things are more than what appears to typical drs.

 

I thought I was dying.... literally in HELL, dead. I actually have Lyme antibodies, Bartonella infection, and two mold infections. They produce the same effects as benzo withdrawal. Message me if you need more info. I posted to the Post Withdrawal Board in more detail too.

 

 

[[Ju...]]

That's horrible, sorry to hear that. How did you find out that you had something in addition to benzo withdrawal? Were you convinced that you didn't have withdrawal from benzos or something?

 

In my situation, I'm pretty sure it's just benzo withdrawal because I have waves and windows like everybody else. But you never know. Luckily my blood work has been fine and so has my urine.

[[Im...]]

That's horrible, sorry to hear that. How did you find out that you had something in addition to benzo withdrawal? Were you convinced that you didn't have withdrawal from benzos or something?

 

In my situation, I'm pretty sure it's just benzo withdrawal because I have waves and windows like everybody else. But you never know. Luckily my blood work has been fine and so has my urine.

 

My blood and urine was normal too. I was in the hospital for a week with every test to them known ran... Im not going to try to talk you into this. I knew something else was wrong.  There are only 2 labs in the US that do the mold tests and you have to have proper Lyme tests. I was improperly tested in the hospital and it came back negative.

 

I wish you all the best and hope it is only Benzo w/d for you, but remember.... something got you on them in the first place. You have to figure out what that was and what REALLY caused it.

 

Before I start sounding conspiracy theorist, I will move on.... Just keep this in the back of your mind and the link to the Dr if you need it in the future. Dont go too long in misery and certainly do not harm yourself. Im saying this to anyone reading. There are tests to be done that typical drs know nothing about. I went to about 10 different drs who missed every single one of my infections and dismissed it as anxiety and depression.

 

I am not here to discuss my case. I am on the path to healing. I want others in my situation to be as well. Im just paying it forward.

[[Be...]]

I would have to disagree that all AD's are bad.  I was on the tricyclic AD's, Tofranil and Norpramin, for many years and they really helped me.  They both stopped my panic attacks so I wasn't afraid that happening anymore and it gave me more confidence.  And coming off of them was no problem either.  I took them at bedtime and they helped me sleep too.  Only side effect for me was dry mouth.  Coming off of them, I just reduced the dose for a few days and then jumped and had no w/d at all.  I think the SSRI's and newer AD's are dangerous.  I took some Paxil, Celexa and Effexor years ago and they made me feel really horrible.  I don't trust the newer AD's.  Tofranil has been around for about 60 years and has a proven track record. 

[[Ju...]]

Mold and AD's...both bad. I've had both and they're both something that makes me feel horrible. Maybe they help some, but not many.

[[Be...]]

I don't think people should be on AD's for many years or be on them at a young age.  I was in my 20's and only took them for a few years.

[[Ju...]]

It's hard to say, I just know from all the people I've talked to, they made them suicidal instead of getting rid of anxiety or depression, which is the opposite of what they claim. However, I think lots of drugs do the opposite once they stop working. I'm just glad you're alright and didn't have a bad experience like many others.