Need to get off lorazepam, zolpidem and Seroquel to get ECT - ASAP!

[[Be...]]

Thank you all for your thoughtful posts.  I hope I'm not the kind of person who will be depressed no matter what.  Since it's been going on so long I have sometimes thought that I will never be free of it.  I grieved hard for my brother for at least 2 months and was too upset to attend his service.  Now I don't tear up everytime I think about him but I know I am still in the grief process for him, as well as my dad and mother.

 

In answer to some of your questions, my nuclear family is all dead now.  I have two elderly aunts in other States and my brother's wife and 3 "children" about 400 miles away.  All the kids are addicted to prescription pain killers and benzo.s and I think one is on crack.  Needless to say, I have minimal contact with them.  I do have a best friend who moved in with me 2 years ago and we have a mutual friend that we socialize with.  Both of them are very supportive, although my roommate is really pushing me to do everything possible to stop being depressed and anxious.  I know it is very difficult living with someone who can't do things with you and finds no joy in life.  Also, she just retired and really wants a "playmate" I think.  Her being home all day is pretty stressful for me right now but I expect I'll get used to it eventually.  (Now I think of it, my mother took years to adjust to my Dad being around all the time.  She used to tell him she took him for better or worse but not for lunch. 

 

I'm starting to taper off lorazepam/ativan and am on my 5th day on the reduced dose of 1.75mg/day, down from 2.0mg.  I've been taking 2-3 mg for years and wondered when I can safely make my next .25mg reduction.  Last night I did not get "the sweats" and have had minimal cramping in my toes  . Of course, I am more agitated most of the day and not able to sleep as well but I kind of expected that.

 

I don't want to go too fast and cause some of the withdrawal symptoms I have read about or have to go back up again but I also want off of this drug as quickly as possible. I finally got an appt. with a new psych doc (who doesn't accept any insurance  ). The appt. isn't until 2/25 and I will be asking for a schedule and support at that time.  However, I wondered if I could safely reduce by .25mg before then.  I currently get my scrip in 1mg doses and split them to save money and I can't cut them smaller than in quarters.  I realize that at some point I will need to start getting the script in .5mg doses so I can make smaller reductions but I want to use what I have if it makes sense (ie, another .25mg drop).

 

I also wondered what you think about crossing over to valium and then tapering off that.  Another forum recommends following the Ashton Method which prescribes this.  On the face of it, it seem like substituting one addiction for another but apparently valium is much easier to wean off of. 

 

Kathie

 

[[si...]]

my recommendation is no - many people do it - but i have not seen good results.

 

i have heard of some having good results and i wish there was a separate section for peoples completed tapers so people could compare and see how they went - but right now i don't think there is one.

 

get .5 if you can and taper from that - less muss - less fuss and less confusing.

 

that is my opinion and i am sticking to it - others may differ based on their experience.

[[ja...]]

None of it is easy. I myself crossed over to valium and have been tapering that.  I am now at 4 from 15 mg.  It has not been an easy ride either but the ativan was horrible for me.  So, you can have a lot of opinions but only you can choose the way to go that you think is best for you.  Love, Janus

[[si...]]

there ya go - janus was on the same drug i was on and found it harder to taper from ativan then to cross over.

 

for me (if a doctor would of) i think valium would of been harder.  it really is a personal choice provided the doctor supports you and will write a script.

 

i preferred direct taper - and janus feels a cross over is easier.

[[Ta...]]

Kathie,

 

I am tapering directly off of klonopin but am open to crossover if it becomes intolerable. Some people experience hard time at lower doses of klonopin and switch over. So, I leave the door open. I was not ready, at the start, to deal with another benzo. Stay with the devil you know...

 

Try not to rush and have big cuts. I think most of us who have been on this med for years need to go slow. 

 

 

[[Be...]]

Silver - I see that you were on the same dose I was on and dropped by .5mg (3 times I think).  Did you run into problems doing that?  How long had you been on ativan before you started your taper?

 

Janus - Wow, you are nearly benzo-free.  I keep thinking there's a formula for success but thanks for reminding me that everyone is different in their response to withdrawing from benzos.

 

Tanya - I hadn't even thought about the fact that I could ask my doc. for valium later if I run into trouble.  Somehow thought I needed to head off difficulties that were inevitable ahead of time.  Thanks for posting.

 

Kathie

[[si...]]

beeper - i did not have to work and i live alone - so no body had to tolerate what i went through except me.

 

i was glade to get off as fast as possible w/o doing a cold turkey - does that answer your question?  and yes it was hard - within two weeks or a week of getting off i would stop in mid sentence when speaking to someone and say "wow this is really hard".

 

but its pretty much all over except the sleep thing is still wacky - and i thought for a long time i was on benzo's for 20 yrs but actually it was only 18 yrs.

[[Be...]]

and i thought for a long time i was on benzo's for 20 yrs but actually it was only 18 yrs.

 

"only 18 years" 

 

It certainly sounds as if we had similar doses of the same drug for about the same amount of time.  Makes me think I ought to be able to do what you did in the timeframe you did it but I know everyone is different. 

 

How does one come up with a successful taper plan? 

 

If I don't have to deal with more than I am now while withdrawing, I think I can do it without crossing over to valium as recommended on another benzo forum.  However, I'm concerned that if I decline too much too fast, I'll have bad withdrawal symptoms that will lead to failure.  I am rather easily discouraged, possibly because of the long-standing depression.

[[si...]]

do you need a taper plan - i don't do taper plans but someone can help you with that.

 

it is suggested 10% every two weeks - some go much slower though.  i took big cuts but held them for a month so i wouldn't shot my system.

[[Be...]]

Yes, I am trying to develop a taper plan.  I saw my ativan-prescribing GP/internist today and she thought I could come off .25mg each time, reducing every few days.  Then she said I might need to stay on a low dose of ativan for life.  Demonstrated to me that she knows nothing about benzo tolerance or withdrawal.  She did give me a script for some .5mg lorazepam to use when I need to make smaller cuts.  I currently cut my 1 mg tabs in halves and quarters with a pill splitter so figure I can do the same with the .5's.  I don't think I can cut only 10% at a time since I can't cut even the .5's that finely.  I believe this would work if I crossed over to valium since the equivalent doses are 10x higher, but GP would not even listen to my reasons for wanting valium or read the information I took her on the subject. 

 

Thanks for mentioning that you took a month to stabilize on those big drops.  I just hope the GP will continue to prescribe the ativan for several more months so I can do it slowly and avoid some of the awful prolonged and delayed withdrawal symptoms I've been reading about.

 

Thanks for posting.

[[si...]]

cuts are traditionally held for 2 wks at 10% - i am not an expert at this - but i did my cuts and held them for one month to adjust.

 

i cut 1/2 mg three times and then 1/4 of 1 mg for the last parts.

 

if i would of cut 1/4 mg all along it may have gone smoother - and yes you are right doctors (many) do not have a clue.

[[Be...]]

Thanks for your thoughts, Silver.  I don't plan to reduce again until after I see the new doc on 2/25.  I just realized I've already reduced by 25% since 2/4 and don't want to jeopardize my progress by trying to come off it too fast.  I hope I can continue making .25 mg cuts for another few months. 

 

I've read some real horror stories here and elsewhere about protracted withdrawal which I hope to avoid, of course.  I wish there was a formula that came with guarantees: do xyz and you won't have any problems.  It is helpful to learn from everyone else's experiences, though, and I appreciate you taking the time to read my posts and post a reply.

 

Kathie

[[si...]]

no problem kathy - this forum has done so much for me - it is pay back time - no complaints here.

 

i did 25% cuts and held them for one month - worked - was hard - but it worked.  i do not recommend doing what i did though - i had a limited supply.

[[ja...]]

Hi Beeper-stay away from the horror stories as much as possible as they will only make you more fearful of what likely is NOT going to happen.  Some of this withdrawal involves the psychological component and reading about protracted wd and others' horror stories is not healthy nor helpful.  There is a fine line, because some of it can be very informative and helpful.  Just know that the worst is likely not to happen to you and expect the best with some bumps on the road.  Janus

[[Be...]]

Janus - I surely didn't go looking for the bad stuff.  The "horror stories" just came up while I was searching for info on withdrawing from benzos.  They made me realize that it was serious stuff and that I would be advised to taper slowly. Any doc I have asked about it have recommended tapering over weeks rather than months and I think that would be a mistake from what I've read.  Anyway, I sure am trying to stay positive and the encouragement I get from you and the other members certainly helps. I thought for years I would have to be on ativan or something like it for the rest of my life.  Now I know I have to get off of it and just want to do it with as few bumps as possible.  Still pretty fragile emotionally after losing my family.  Thanks for caring enough to post.

[[si...]]

beeper - people that are not having many problems most likely see no need to post much - they may not even need our help.

 

but there are many on here who are doing ok.

 

the benefits of knowing what is hard is this - you will know you are not dying nor are you going crazy.

 

understanding the process is empowering and ought to work on a positive level - frame of mind makes a real big difference - a positive attitude goes a long ways.

[[ja...]]

I know how difficult it is to keep reading things and then come across the horror stuff.  Here at BBO we try to keep positive and well informed so as to help members get an accurate and clear perspective as well as helpful info.  We are working on new documents to do more of that.  Janus

[[si...]]

knowledge is power - so for some it is rough - for others it is not - fear plays a real real real big part.

[[Be...]]

I intended to start a new thread since I am no longer considering ECT (at least for a while).  However, I didn't feel like going back over my history so decided to post at least once more here.  I guess I should switch to the support section, right?

 

I had been doing surprisingly well after my last cut.  Some periods of insomnia, sweating, and rapid heartbeat - and nearly constant low-level anxiety, of course - but I'm not feeling so smug about it today.  I'm over-the-top anxious, crying, depressed, feeling hopeless again.  I'm just try to get through the day an hour at a time.  I developed a pain deep in my hip a few weeks ago that returned yesterday so it hurts too much to walk very far.  I'm sure that being so inactive isn't helping.  I'm thinking of trying to track down some Calms Forte here locally.  (I saw I could order it online but I want it now!)

 

I know I need to think of these as passing symptoms but I just want to scream and get out of my skin.  I've tried the slow breathing technique but I can't keep it up.  No one around me understands what I'm going through nor wants to hear about it anymore so I came here.

 

Thanks for listening.

[[ja...]]

Hang in there Beeper-there will be an end to this...this is a journey of ups and downs and it will eventually all get better.  The inactivity doesn't help, I agree, but then there are times when there is no other choice.  Just don't get down on yourself.  Take care and do something nice for yourself.  Try not to react to what you are feeling and know this is withdrawal and it is part and parcel of the nasty package.  Love, Janus 

[[si...]]

beeper you would be surprised how drugs turn on us and make us feel crazy - remember they are mind altering and not like the stuff i played with in the 60's - this is some real mean stuff.

 

so you are feeling better  i gained a lot of self confidence through my taper to - prior to my taper i was going to sign myself into a mental institution.

[[el...]]

Hi Beeper, I'm glad that you are postponing the ECT for now. You know you can always have that option if things don't improve.

 

[[Si...]]

Whoaaa - back the truck up here. All the drugs you are taking are depressants and in the combination you are using it would be reasonable to feel depressed. ECT is a major shock to the brain and they still do not know why it would work or if it works. Some research has shown it is not much better than placebo.

 

And why, if you are depressed are you not being prescribed an antidepressant instead of CNS depressing medications.

 

Coming off this combination of drugs and then stressing the brain further with ECT is not something I would risk.

 

Sit

[[Co...]]

Hi Sit,

 

It is difficult (actually, impossible) for us to understand the full situation of a member. Even if we were doctors (which we are not), it would still be risky to deal in such absolutes. I often have reservations about what people are doing, but it is better that we act more as a sounding board for others to make up their own minds. They should talk to their doctors, but if their doctors are unreceptive to discussion about their health needs, they should probably seek out a new doctor. Our doctors should work with us. I know that some cannot change doctor for a variety of reasons, but it is still better that we avoid being proscriptive. I must admit, I have a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of ECT (I know nothing about it though), and knowledge of ECT around here is thin at best. It would be better to point people to reliable (authoritative) resources in such situations.

[[Si...]]

I have intimate knowledge of ECT - have worked with it and know it well. Also have had clients that were post-ECT. You can do psychopharmacology 101 and know that taking 4 CNS depressants can cause depression.

Sit