Many report struggling with anxiety, but are we really coming undone?

[[Ma...]]

This is my theory..

 

1) reports are done by doing research. So you need to ask people about their anxiety and in former times no one would talk about that so maybe its only a change in time, that we today say it clear "I am suffering from anxiety" and, especially men, in former times, would not have admitted it.

 

2)the brain of humans has never been this overstimulated like it is today! With the electronic media, which is so fast and the hole world never asleep it means the brain gets input 24/7 - and I truly believe thats why our brains react with anxiety and panic. The poor organ need a rest.

[[Fl...]]

There is a lot of generalization going on here. I've been involved with families from many walks of life who are very good parents. They participate with their children and their interests including school, extra-curricular events, family activities, sports, arts, leisure, etc., etc.

 

Which is something that shouldn't have to be stated because it is a given.

[[Fl...]]

Wow

 

and not a word from any of you about the VERY REAL economic and environmental issues facing MOST Everyone...

 

Duh

 

Struggle is a natural part of life. Human nature dictates that life will never be perfectly fair, but I would venture to guess that most of us here live in first world countries where life has never been easier. We just lack the perspective to realize how good we have it. Not to mention the poorest people in the US are infinitely better off than the average person in less developed countries.

 

We are comparing our problems with an unrealistic expectation set by what we see on t.v. and facebook. I have to wonder if we might have less anxiety if we had to walk through a third world slum on the way to work every day.

[[se...]]

Wow

 

and not a word from any of you about the VERY REAL economic and environmental issues facing MOST Everyone...

 

Duh

 

Struggle is a natural part of life. Human nature dictates that life will never be perfectly fair, but I would venture to guess that most of us here live in first world countries where life has never been easier. We just lack the perspective to realize how good we have it. Not to mention the poorest people in the US are infinitely better off than the average person in less developed countries.

 

We are comparing our problems with an unrealistic expectation set by what we see on t.v. and facebook. I have to wonder if we might have less anxiety if we had to walk through a third world slum on the way to work every day.

 

I don't see that our anxiety has anything to do with whether or not we have that perspective.  If we were to have the realization that we live with more comfort and convenience now, that's somehow supposed to make us less anxious?  I have that perspective and have lived poorly in a less developed country and the US and I'm no less anxious for it.

 

I think my previous post and the article included about Brené Brown's work hits the nail on the head and relates pretty well to your second paragraph and also addresses several of the previous posts.  I'm just going re-quote it for everyone in case you want to look again. 

 

I agree, GreenCup and Lapis.

 

Another concept came to mind.  I really like Brené Brown's explanation of scarcity and think it relates to the increase in self-perceived anxiety in our culture.

 

For me, and for many of us, our first waking thought of the day is “I didn’t get enough sleep.” The next one is “I don’t have enough time.” Whether true or not, that thought of not enough occurs to us automatically before we even think to question or examine it. We spend most of the hours and the days of our lives hearing, explaining, complaining, or worrying about what we don’t have enough of.…Before we even sit up in bed, before our feet touch the floor, we’re already inadequate, already behind, already losing, already lacking something. And by the time we go to bed at night, our minds are racing with a litany of what we didn’t get, or didn’t get done, that day. We go to sleep burdened by those thoughts and wake up to that reverie of lack.…This internal condition of scarcity, this mind-set of scarcity, lives at the very heart of our jealousies, our greed, our prejudice, and our arguments with life.…

- Brené Brown, Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead

 

Here's a good article with more information:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jul/27/brene-brown-people-sick-being-afraid

[[Fl...]]

I don't see that our anxiety has anything to do with whether or not we have that perspective.  If we were to have the realization that we live with more comfort and convenience now, that's somehow supposed to make us less anxious?  I have that perspective and have lived poorly in a less developed country and the US and I'm no less anxious for it.

 

Obviously some people are just anxiety prone and having perspective may not have as much of an effect on them, but if the average person were to spend a few years living as people do in less developed countries they might see that the problems that make them anxious are fairly inconsequential.

 

 

[[Lo...]]

I don't see that our anxiety has anything to do with whether or not we have that perspective.  If we were to have the realization that we live with more comfort and convenience now, that's somehow supposed to make us less anxious?  I have that perspective and have lived poorly in a less developed country and the US and I'm no less anxious for it.

 

Obviously some people are just anxiety prone and having perspective may not have as much of an effect on them, but if the average person were to spend a few years living as people do in less developed countries they might see that the problems that make them anxious are fairly inconsequential.

 

One thing is that people in many less developed countries tend to have more close knit communities. It's often a requirement for survival. Loneliness and everything that goes with it tends to be a much bigger problem with first world countries. People may have stuffs and comforts of the modern societies, but being disconnected from fellow humans can take a huge toll over time.  There is no doubt to me that some people are predisposed to being shy and anxious in social situations, but there are many factors and elements in developed countries that make the problem of loneliness much worse.

[[co...]]

FG

 

You are using a very tired trope about "first world" and "undeveloped" countries.

 

Can you not see how our lives have been torn asunder by medical debt (even Mexico has universal health care) and stagnant wages...and the "gig" economy, the non-dischargable student loans that are keeping young people from achieving the "American Dream"?  Birth rates are down, deaths of despair *everywhere* (opiates, suicides)...and for folks in the west very real concerns about weather related disasters.

 

I grieve for so many things that have disappeared...the swimming hole that's dried up by early June, or the birds/insects I don't see any more.

 

Fact is, the Case-Deaton study of just a year ago says US LONGEVITY has decreased by a good amount and continues to do so...why is that, if the poor 'have it so much better' than 3rd world countries?  At least there, family systems are still pretty much in place where us in the western civilized world have been atomized into 'individuals' who are suppose to just pull up on the ol' bootstraps.

 

The UN also last year (maybe 2016) studied poverty in the US and came to the conclusion that severe poverty is alive and well in the wonderful US of A, we're talking 1$ a day.

 

Do you not see the homeless epidemic anywhere in sunny red state Florida?  O. It's all *their* fault.

 

Grieving the loss of an uninhabitable planet is very much in the undercurrent, despair affecting many who are paying even the smallest amount of attention, and getting 'news' from MSM is pure propaganda...eddy bernay's so proud.

 

The information is out there...

[[Fi...]]

The author said in the article: "once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop". What an understatement!

 

If the author has a genuine interest in benzos, anxiety & other bwd symptoms and if the author wants to fairly report on those issues, I suggest that his next survey should be of people who have been affected by them.

 

Just my opinion.

[[Fl...]]

One thing is that people in many less developed countries tend to have more close knit communities. It's often a requirement for survival. Loneliness and everything that goes with it tends to be a much bigger problem with first world countries. People may have stuffs and comforts of the modern societies, but being disconnected from fellow humans can take a huge toll over time.  There is no doubt to me that some people are predisposed to being shy and anxious in social situations, but there are many factors and elements in developed countries that make the problem of loneliness much worse.

 

I completely agree, and that is why I stated earlier that there are certainly things that can increase anxiety in richer countries as well. It isn't as if we don't have the opportunity to be social though, we are doing it to ourselves and it is something that can be changed. Being poverty stricken in a dirt poor, corrupt country- not so much.

[[Fl...]]

Can you not see how our lives have been torn asunder by medical debt (even Mexico has universal health care) and stagnant wages...and the "gig" economy, the non-dischargable student loans that are keeping young people from achieving the "American Dream"?  Birth rates are down, deaths of despair *everywhere* (opiates, suicides)...and for folks in the west very real concerns about weather related disasters.

 

No one is claiming that rich countries don't have any problems, but I wonder if you would be willing to give up your life in the western world to live in say, a village in Haiti? Guatemala? Afghanistan? Maybe a county in central Africa?

 

It all seems so horrible until you're asked if you want to trade places with someone who has really serious problems. When we start to see people in the western world choosing to trade their debt and stagnant wages in favor of crushing poverty and 20 years off their life expectancy, maybe then we can talk.

 

The UN also last year (maybe 2016) studied poverty in the US and came to the conclusion that severe poverty is alive and well in the wonderful US of A, we're talking 1$ a day.

 

Lets add in all of the welfare benefits someone who makes $1 a day gets, and compare their life to the average person in a poor country.

 

Do you not see the homeless epidemic anywhere in sunny red state Florida?  O. It's all *their* fault.

 

You think homelessness is unique to the western world?

 

Grieving the loss of an uninhabitable planet is very much in the undercurrent, despair affecting many who are paying even the smallest amount of attention, and getting 'news' from MSM is pure propaganda...eddy bernay's so proud.

 

If anyone is seriously distressed over an "uninhabitable" planet they might want to get some therapy because their problems are obviously a lot bigger than that.

[[...]]

One thing is that people in many less developed countries tend to have more close knit communities. It's often a requirement for survival. Loneliness and everything that goes with it tends to be a much bigger problem with first world countries. People may have stuffs and comforts of the modern societies, but being disconnected from fellow humans can take a huge toll over time.  There is no doubt to me that some people are predisposed to being shy and anxious in social situations, but there are many factors and elements in developed countries that make the problem of loneliness much worse.

 

I completely agree, and that is why I stated earlier that there are certainly things that can increase anxiety in richer countries as well. It isn't as if we don't have the opportunity to be social though, we are doing it to ourselves and it is something that can be changed. Being poverty stricken in a dirt poor, corrupt country- not so much.

 

How a wooden bench is starting a revolution in mental health

CNN  October 16, 2018

 

On the Friendship Bench a form of problem-solving therapy aims at the potential triggers of distress and patients are guided toward their own solutions.

Although Friendship Benches are now finding success in cities across the world, the project in rural Zimbabwe still holds a special place for Chibanda. His patient Erica lived and died in the eastern highlands of the country, a place where such services may have saved her life. What if she didn't need to pay the bus fare to Harare? Did she have to rely solely on old-fashioned antidepressants? What if she could walk to a wooden bench under the shade of a tree and take a seat next to a trusted member of her community?

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/16/health/depression-mental-health-zimbabwe-africa-partner/index.html

 

 

[[se...]]

The author said in the article: "once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop". What an understatement!

 

If the author has a genuine interest in benzos, anxiety & other bwd symptoms and if the author wants to fairly report on those issues, I suggest that his next survey should be of people who have been affected by them.

 

Just my opinion.

 

The article is not about benzos or bwd symptoms.  The author did not conduct the survey and is female.

 

Here's my opinion:

"once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop":  True statement.    Kudos to her for mentioning it in an interesting piece on anxiety in Canada.

 

And really?? Does the author and her integrity deserve to be berated for what this statement doesn't include?  Give me a break! Why don't we call for her job for such gross misconduct!  Let's get the word about benzo w/d awareness by exposing her for the fraudulent benzo "expert" she claims to be! 

[[La...]]

Thank you, seltzerer. Well put. I think it's a timely, interesting, thought-provoking article on the topic of anxiety here in Canada. I'm glad for the mention of certain psych meds (benzos, SSRIs), but the theme is obviously something else. I don't often check this Canadian national newspaper, but when I did, I found this article and thought it might be of interest to other BBs. So far, the conversation has been really thoughtful and thought-provoking, so thanks, Buddies!

[[Fi...]]

The author said in the article: "once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop". What an understatement!

 

If the author has a genuine interest in benzos, anxiety & other bwd symptoms and if the author wants to fairly report on those issues, I suggest that his next survey should be of people who have been affected by them.

 

Just my opinion.

 

The article is not about benzos or bwd symptoms.  The author did not conduct the survey and is female.

 

Here's my opinion:

"once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop":  True statement.    Kudos to her for mentioning it in an interesting piece on anxiety in Canada.

 

And really?? Does the author and her integrity deserve to be berated for what this statement doesn't include?  Give me a break! Why don't we call for her job for such gross misconduct!  Let's get the word about benzo w/d awareness by exposing her for the fraudulent benzo "expert" she claims to be! 

 

There is some wisdom than can be learned from this old adage:

 

"Opinions are like (Butt)holes, Everyone has one and most of them stink."

[[Lo...]]

From the article:

The drugs are effective for the severely sick, but not for people whose problems are closer to normal, doctors say. Benzodiazepines like Xanax also come with a high risk of addiction — once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop — and wildly popular antidepressants known as SSRIs can cause a fierce withdrawal syndrome.

 

 

 

I find the statement that these drugs should somehow be effective for severely sick but not for people whose problems are closer to normal very confusing. If the side effects of these drugs are potentially problematic, I don't see why a severely sick person would somehow be able to magically tolerate them and be ok. I just don't grasp the logic of this part of the article.

[[co...]]

Denial...

 

will work until it doesn't.

 

Hope your tiny house has pontoons...

 

Gee, if all those poor peeps have all that free money available, then why are they houseless?

 

TV memes don't take a lot of hard thought...rinse, repeat, and keep us at each other's throats while the uber riche laugh and prepare for their big escape to bolt holes in NZ or...the moon!

 

"I got mine!  Too bad about you!"

[[se...]]

I honestly have not followed the whole third world perspective line of reasoning er... ideaology.  I think you have half the arguments right though.

 

LF, it’s about two different patient population risk profiles. Benefit does not outweigh the risk in those whose problems are closer to normal.

[[Lo...]]

I honestly have not followed the whole third world perspective line of reasoning er... ideaology.  I think you have half the arguments right though.

 

LF, it’s about two different patient population risk profiles. Benefit does not outweigh the risk in those whose problems are closer to normal.

 

Right, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that someone who has severe mental health problems might have been on an SSRI or a benzo or a combination at some point at their life before. And what if their problems were related to post med withdrawal, which gets diagnosed as worsening mental illness that needs more medicating? I was very much in this category around 2012/2013 or so and, had things been understood for what they were, I wouldn't have ended up here.

 

There is very little acknowledgment of Rx induced PAWS out there. Almost zero. And I can't help but wonder how many of these severe cases the article mentioned are people suffering from protracted issues from their past/current med use but don't even know it.

[[se...]]

I honestly have not followed the whole third world perspective line of reasoning er... ideaology.  I think you have half the arguments right though.

 

LF, it’s about two different patient population risk profiles. Benefit does not outweigh the risk in those whose problems are closer to normal.

 

Right, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that someone who has severe mental health problems might have been on an SSRI or a benzo or a combination at some point at their life before. And what if their problems were related to post med withdrawal, which gets diagnosed as worsening mental illness that needs more medicating? I was very much in this category around 2012/2013 or so and, had things been understood for what they were, I wouldn't have ended up here.

 

There is very little acknowledgment of Rx induced PAWS out there. Almost zero. And I can't help but wonder how many of these severe cases the article mentioned are people suffering from protracted issues from their past/current med use but don't even know it.

 

They don't make that distinction or specifically address either of these two issues.

 

I can't tell from your sig what you might be referring to.  Did you increase your ativan as a result of discontinuing the Prozac in 12/13?

[[Lo...]]

I honestly have not followed the whole third world perspective line of reasoning er... ideaology.  I think you have half the arguments right though.

 

LF, it’s about two different patient population risk profiles. Benefit does not outweigh the risk in those whose problems are closer to normal.

 

Right, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that someone who has severe mental health problems might have been on an SSRI or a benzo or a combination at some point at their life before. And what if their problems were related to post med withdrawal, which gets diagnosed as worsening mental illness that needs more medicating? I was very much in this category around 2012/2013 or so and, had things been understood for what they were, I wouldn't have ended up here.

 

There is very little acknowledgment of Rx induced PAWS out there. Almost zero. And I can't help but wonder how many of these severe cases the article mentioned are people suffering from protracted issues from their past/current med use but don't even know it.

 

They don't make that distinction or specifically address either of these two issues.

 

I can't tell from your sig what you might be referring to.  Did you increase your ativan as a result of discontinuing the Prozac in 12/13?

 

No. It worked out differently. It was a feeling of "something's not quite right, but I am not sure what" that I felt, and I had not felt like that before in my life. I felt more anxious than I'd ever been and I kept thinking it was a natural part of aging, having health issues as a part of aging, work stress, personal & family stress, loneliness, financial issues. Many things going on.

 

But looking back, I think something didn't feel quite right and quite natural. It wasn't obvious enough to me, but it felt like things were just not quite right. I was working full-time but just felt fatigued and not quite motivated outside of work, and life just seemed a bit more grey, and now I realize that I probably had a mild case of PAWS and either didn't know what it was or didn't know how to address it.

 

I don't think PAWS has to be life shattering. I am sure many people had experienced the more subtle levels of it before ending up on this site. The main problem I think is that these first-hand experiences get dismissed a lot by the sufferer and the others as return or worsening of mental problems. That's the point I wanted to stress.

[[se...]]

I honestly have not followed the whole third world perspective line of reasoning er... ideaology.  I think you have half the arguments right though.

 

LF, it’s about two different patient population risk profiles. Benefit does not outweigh the risk in those whose problems are closer to normal.

 

Right, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that someone who has severe mental health problems might have been on an SSRI or a benzo or a combination at some point at their life before. And what if their problems were related to post med withdrawal, which gets diagnosed as worsening mental illness that needs more medicating? I was very much in this category around 2012/2013 or so and, had things been understood for what they were, I wouldn't have ended up here.

 

There is very little acknowledgment of Rx induced PAWS out there. Almost zero. And I can't help but wonder how many of these severe cases the article mentioned are people suffering from protracted issues from their past/current med use but don't even know it.

 

They don't make that distinction or specifically address either of these two issues.

 

I can't tell from your sig what you might be referring to.  Did you increase your ativan as a result of discontinuing the Prozac in 12/13?

 

No. It worked out differently. It was a feeling of "something's not quite right, but I am not sure what" that I felt, and I had not felt like that before in my life. I felt more anxious than I'd ever been and I kept thinking it was a natural part of aging, having health issues as a part of aging, work stress, personal & family stress, loneliness, financial issues. Many things going on.

 

But looking back, I think something didn't feel quite right and quite natural. It wasn't obvious enough to me, but it felt like things were just not quite right. I was working full-time but just felt fatigued and not quite motivated outside of work, and life just seemed a bit more grey, and now I realize that I probably had a mild case of PAWS and either didn't know what it was or didn't know how to address it.

 

I don't think PAWS has to be life shattering. I am sure many people had experienced the more subtle levels of it before ending up on this site. The main problem I think is that these first-hand experiences get dismissed a lot by the sufferer and the others as return or worsening of mental problems. That's the point I wanted to stress.

 

I see.  I don't think of that as PAWS though unless you've already withdrawn from the medication.  If you're not withdrawn, I think of it as medication side effects and specifically "inter-dose withdrawal" in the case of benzos.  I agree though.  I think inter-dose w/d is one of the main problems with benzos but it seems like people experience these types of side effects with ADs and perhaps other psych drugs as well.

 

I know it was my experience.  At first, the inter-dose w/d sxs were subtle too but by the end, they were horrific.  Only after I got to that point, did I realize I had been experiencing a lot of subtle sxs all along - as far back as shortly after I started taking the medication.  I had no clue and thought it was a combination of increasing life/work/relationship stress for which I could deal with it with a benzo and my doctors all thought that as well.  Now that I'm off everything, I can even see how the AD I was on before I added the benzo was causing problems that were masquerading as worsening anxiety and depression.

[[Fl...]]

Denial...

 

will work until it doesn't.

 

Hope your tiny house has pontoons...

 

Gee, if all those poor peeps have all that free money available, then why are they houseless?

 

TV memes don't take a lot of hard thought...rinse, repeat, and keep us at each other's throats while the uber riche laugh and prepare for their big escape to bolt holes in NZ or...the moon!

 

"I got mine!  Too bad about you!"

 

LOL. My tiny house has the next best thing- wheels. If a hurricane hits I hook up and go. And yes, that is a possibility although it isn't a new thing, these have been happening since long before cars and airplanes and electricity-  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1715_Treasure_Fleet

 

I will state again, the world is safer and life is easier than it has ever been for most people, and most of us on this board have it better than the majority of people in the world. We are the 1%ers. Even those of us who are "poor" by western standards. The fact that we would have more anxiety is likely due in part to the atomization of society as Lorazepam mentioned but I am sure that it is also a direct result of society in general not having had to experience serious adversity. Perspective matters.

[[se...]]

I will state again, the world is safer and life is easier than it has ever been for most people, and most of us on this board have it better than the majority of people in the world. We are the 1%ers. Even those of us who are "poor" by western standards. The fact that we would have more anxiety is likely due in part to the atomization of society as Lorazepam mentioned but I am sure that it is also a direct result of society in general not having had to experience serious adversity. Perspective matters.

 

You're not presenting a sound argument here, FG, and seem to be repeating an argument often made by people of a particular ideological persuasion.  The first part of what you said is right - isolation is part of the problem.  What is it about having this 3rd world perspective though that would prevent anxiety?  Do you think if people who were raised in less-developed countries were to move and live in Western society as the rest of us do and be subjected to the same life pressures, they would be less anxious?  I don't think you would see that on average.

[[li...]]

From the article:

The drugs are effective for the severely sick, but not for people whose problems are closer to normal, doctors say. Benzodiazepines like Xanax also come with a high risk of addiction — once on a benzo, it’s very hard to stop — and wildly popular antidepressants known as SSRIs can cause a fierce withdrawal syndrome.

 

 

 

I find the statement that these drugs should somehow be effective for severely sick but not for people whose problems are closer to normal very confusing. If the side effects of these drugs are potentially problematic, I don't see why a severely sick person would somehow be able to magically tolerate them and be ok. I just don't grasp the logic of this part of the article.

 

I´ll translate that as ´don´t mess up your patients if you don´t have to´. Limiting the prescriptions to the worst cases, so fewer people will be harmed. Doctors´ egos have to be protected ...

[[Fl...]]

You're not presenting a sound argument here, FG, and seem to be repeating an argument often made by people of a particular ideological persuasion.  The first part of what you said is right - isolation is part of the problem.  What is it about having this 3rd world perspective though that would prevent anxiety?  Do you think if people who were raised in less-developed countries were to move and live in Western society as the rest of us do and be subjected to the same life pressures, they would be less anxious?  I don't think you would see that on average.

 

I didn't say that living in a 3rd world country would prevent anxiety. They have their own issues and I am sure they have anxiety. Anxiety is natural. 

 

What I am saying is that if people who live in rich countries were to experience the problems that face people in poor countries they might feel a little different about their problems. Having a hard time paying your student loan would certainly feel insignificant if you suddenly find yourself having a hard time figuring out where your next meal is going to come from.