Anyone successful after being "kindled"

[[fa...]]

Okay. Ordinarily I wouldn't say this stuff, but you sound scared to death.

 

First off, the symptom of "losing your mind" is most likely the effect of going back on such a high dose after you were off for a while. I got it, too, when the doc took me up. It does get better over time.

 

If your akathisia is gone, it is unlikely that you are in some form of tolerance. The kindling effect is merely that it's harder to get off than it was previously, not that you have a weird side effect that you didn't have before.

 

I honestly would recommend staying on the drug for a while. You definitely need to stop shaving your dose. I'd try to stabilize for at least a couple weeks before tapering.

 

Your doctor's taper is way too fast. You should actually go slower than you did last time, maybe the 5% drop every two weeks. When you get towards the end, though, go even slower. Do not rigidly stick to a schedule--if you feel worse after a drop, hold for a while.

 

I don't know exactly why you had problems with your previous taper, but I can guess. 5% per week is not overly fast, but, as you get towards the end, you need to go slower. Also, Ativan is not a good drug for crossing over. And Klonopin, since it binds really tightly to BZD-GABA receptors and has a few other effects, is one of the worst for incomplete crossovers. And, if you are like me, it's withdrawal effects can be delayed for weeks.

 

Finally, I'll point out that, while benzos are often given for akathisia, they aren't the only solution. There are beta blockers, antihistamines, and even anti-Parkinsonian drugs. I don't know about the latter, but most people seem to be able to take either a beta-blocker or antihistamine. And there's also a ton of vitamins that may work--and while some may make you worse, you might find a good one.

 

It just sounds like you are feeling hopeless. YOU ARE NOT HOPELESS. There's still plenty of stuff for you to do. You will get through this.

 

well said   Hang on, faith focus finish (Fitzgerald)  xo, robin

[[Pa...]]

Okay. Ordinarily I wouldn't say this stuff, but you sound scared to death.

 

First off, the symptom of "losing your mind" is most likely the effect of going back on such a high dose after you were off for a while. I got it, too, when the doc took me up. It does get better over time.

 

If your akathisia is gone, it is unlikely that you are in some form of tolerance. The kindling effect is merely that it's harder to get off than it was previously, not that you have a weird side effect that you didn't have before.

 

I honestly would recommend staying on the drug for a while. You definitely need to stop shaving your dose. I'd try to stabilize for at least a couple weeks before tapering.

 

Your doctor's taper is way too fast. You should actually go slower than you did last time, maybe the 5% drop every two weeks. When you get towards the end, though, go even slower. Do not rigidly stick to a schedule--if you feel worse after a drop, hold for a while.

 

I don't know exactly why you had problems with your previous taper, but I can guess. 5% per week is not overly fast, but, as you get towards the end, you need to go slower. Also, Ativan is not a good drug for crossing over. And Klonopin, since it binds really tightly to BZD-GABA receptors and has a few other effects, is one of the worst for incomplete crossovers. And, if you are like me, it's withdrawal effects can be delayed for weeks.

 

Finally, I'll point out that, while benzos are often given for akathisia, they aren't the only solution. There are beta blockers, antihistamines, and even anti-Parkinsonian drugs. I don't know about the latter, but most people seem to be able to take either a beta-blocker or antihistamine. And there's also a ton of vitamins that may work--and while some may make you worse, you might find a good one.

 

It just sounds like you are feeling hopeless. YOU ARE NOT HOPELESS. There's still plenty of stuff for you to do. You will get through this.

 

Wonderful post, thank you!

[[Me...]]

So even though I've only been on for 3 weeks and it's making me more alzheimers every day, I should do a 5%/week taper?  I feel like I'm poisoning myself and went down to .75 last night cuz that's what others recommended.

 

Years ago when I got off klonopin on my own, i would read about what people dealt with in withdrawal and I literally laughed.  It wasn't hard for me to do 1/8 pill a week.  Just had a little blurry vision.  This is entirely different.  My brain feels like it is dying--don't even have any physical symptoms right now except the fact that for over a year I haven't been able to wake up---been sedated/majorly brain fogged the whole time.  I don't remember what I did yesterday.  Jumped from ativan when others said to go ahead cuz going slower wasn't going to make a difference.  When akathisia became suicidal, Beta blockers didn't work, antihistimines made it worse.

 

I'm not being a scaredy cat.  I have been through more horrors in the past year than I would have ever imagined possible and so many have.  No idea what to do--especially when the same people who told me to follow my doc's advice to get off the klonopin are now agreeing with you.  Thanks for your time and input

 

BY THE WAY---CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR "LOSING YOUR MIND' EXPERIENCE?  Was it that you felt like you had alzheimers/depersonalization times 1,000 or the way people describe being so anxious and agitated that you are losing our mind?  have had both and they are very different

[[Pa...]]

So even though I've only been on for 3 weeks and it's making me more alzheimers every day, I should do a 5%/week taper?  I feel like I'm poisoning myself and went down to .75 last night cuz that's what others recommended.

 

Years ago when I got off klonopin on my own, i would read about what people dealt with in withdrawal and I literally laughed.  It wasn't hard for me to do 1/8 pill a week.  Just had a little blurry vision.  This is entirely different.  My brain feels like it is dying--don't even have any physical symptoms right now except the fact that for over a year I haven't been able to wake up---been sedated/majorly brain fogged the whole time.  I don't remember what I did yesterday.  Jumped from ativan when others said to go ahead cuz going slower wasn't going to make a difference.  When akathisia became suicidal, Beta blockers didn't work, antihistimines made it worse.

 

I'm not being a scaredy cat.  I have been through more horrors in the past year than I would have ever imagined possible and so many have.  No idea what to do--especially when the same people who told me to follow my doc's advice to get off the klonopin are now agreeing with you.  Thanks for your time and input

 

BY THE WAY---CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR "LOSING YOUR MIND' EXPERIENCE?  Was it that you felt like you had alzheimers/depersonalization times 1,000 or the way people describe being so anxious and agitated that you are losing our mind?  have had both and they are very different

 

Hi Memom,

 

Who are the people I've heard you refer to?  Are they members of this forum?

[[Me...]]

Yes--a couple people who jumped off ativan where I did and said i should just do it.  Don't think you want names do you?

[Guest [ke...]]

Memom,

 

I really don't know what to say, but you sound scared and I know it can be.

Listen, you're not losing your mind.. you wouldn't be able to say that if you were.

I know this..

 

Keryn.

 

 

[[Me...]]

Robin,

the last time when you went back on, was the cog fog all the worse?  I'm so scared that I did the wrong thing because while other things are better, I feel like a vegetable--way worse than ever.  making it hard to figure anything out.  don't want to feel this way either and feel like i've totally fried my brain with all of this.

[[Me...]]

Memom is this what you are referring to from the TRAP site?  Just so people know...?16) Question: I am in protracted withdrawal and I am considering reinstating, should I?

 

When you come off the pills your benzodiazepine brain receptors switch states and there are all sorts of complex chemical and physiological changes involving gene transcription coding when you go into the post withdrawal phase and thus going back on pills has unpredictable effects in a lot of people. 

 

In laymans terms you shouldn't generally interupt the delicate healing process of the central nervous system once it has begun. Another problem is to use the medical terminology, is the kindling effect, the kindling effect is where multiple withdrawals, putting the body into withdrawal and out of withdrawal multiple times can cause a hypersensitisation of the receptor systems and thus causing the nervous system to be hypersensitised which can lead people to not being able to stabalise on their benzos as well as they used to and as well as to feeling toxic on the drugs and as well as finding that each withdrawal is worse than the previous.

 

Robin--this is just how this feels and now i'm trapped because my brain feels toxic from the klonopin and I know i need to get off, but don't want to shock my brain any more so how do i do it.  i feel more and more stupid every day--i am so weird and slow and yet scared of suicidal feelings again. 

[[Pa...]]

Yes--a couple people who jumped off ativan where I did and said i should just do it.  Don't think you want names do you?

 

No that's alright, I was just wondering if they were people here or in your real life.

[Guest [ke...]]

Memom,

 

when you say suicidal feelings.. are you talking about the deep depression that comes with klonopin??

 

Keryn.

[[Me...]]

no keryn i know that depression too and the weird obsessive thoughts with klonopin...i mean the suicidal akathisia i had after the ativan taper that made me turn to klonopin in desperation for one more day.  but just realized i've been on and off benzos 6 times in 7 years so my brain is fried.  i really just had trouble sleeping--i didn't know i was going to be an addict giving my brain over to chemicials.  if i can get off the klonopin without the akathisia, i may have a chance to heal over the next year, but my brain feels so toxic.  love you for caring!  going to do what doctor says and hope it doesn't kill me

[[fa...]]

Robin,

the last time when you went back on, was the cog fog all the worse?  I'm so scared that I did the wrong thing because while other things are better, I feel like a vegetable--way worse than ever.  making it hard to figure anything out.  don't want to feel this way either and feel like i've totally fried my brain with all of this.

 

I am sorry, I didn't see this as I am in Colorado for the holiday.  Yes, I did have cog fog in the worst way that lasted to about the first 6-8 weeks.  My brain has  recovered for the most part with only occasional confusion/fogginess that I think is related more to stress, than the recovery from benzos.

Hope you are doing ok, I haven't checked around much as I'm out of town last few days. 

[[Me...]]

do you mean 6-8 weeks after you went back on or when you went off?  I really think i've trashed my brain.  Now going down on the klonopin per doctor's instructions and my brain feels like it's being eaten away (has felt that way since going back on klonopin).  How to decide what in the world to do?  i have less and less reasoning every day and know that I'm just setting myself up for a way worse withdrawal this time and i'm starting from a way worse position.

love you for responding

[Guest [ke...]]

Memom,

 

Honestly with "kindling" everyone is different with it.. I have posted on this thread before. I have known people to come off a Benzo and go back on one again, usually the same one.. I am not saying do so or whatever.. but I've seen it and many that have reinstated, actually finally came off and healed.

 

Keryn.

[[Me...]]

im sorry karen i don't understand--did you mean i should have gone back on the same one/  so you've seen it this bad where you literally feel as if your brain is being eaten away every day from reinstating?