Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[do...]]

anyone want to help me with wafer klonopin? dont know where to begin

 

Wish I could help you but wanted to let you know that I am sure someone will pipe in here soon.

 

Take care.

[[We...]]

Okay need some reassurance, thoughts, encouragement, strategies  etc .......again.

Please forgive if repetitive; benzo brain lack of confidence has set in.

And, I understand our uniqueness on this journey and your thoughts will be read with that understanding.

 

My symptoms are untenable; my back feels, literally, broken; updosing seems like a huge failure; I'm stuck.

 

Help.

I see my Pdoc next week and have many options to consider. Continue crossing over completely to V, requesting liquid X, updosing on X or V. My brain has shut down. It's very difficult to plan effectively through this pain.

 

Help.

 

Thank you in advance,

Marija

 

I'm so sorry you're in such a bad spot, Marija. 

 

I confess I don't understand your signature, so I'm hesitant to offer advice. Are you micro-tapering or holding? If holding, for how long?

 

Since you are on Xanax, you might want to check out the Xanax support blog. I've gotten good Xanax advice there.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96799.0;topicseen

 

When I was looking for advice about crossing over to Librium, I did get some help on the Substitution Taper Plan board. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=61.0

I do remember reading that crossing over and getting off of Xanax entirely has helped some people tremendously. I suggest asking over there about that. Make your title clear to attract the right people, such as "Cross from X to V helpful or not?" I know there's a protocol for crossing over and I'm sure they can give advice about that. I haven't even started yet, so I don't know much else.

 

Personally, I up-dosed a little at two points, but I am hesitant to give advice about up-dosing. I don't know if my situation is anything like yours. The Withdrawal Support board is where I investigated up-dosing. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=145.0 I recall that it helped some people.

 

Updosing is not a failure. It is a bump in the road! If it is what your brain needs right now, it is a positive step. But I encourage you to investigate this on the Withdrawal Support board before you make your decision. I am no expert on up-dosing!

 

Sometimes the answer is just wait. Waiting is hard when the symptoms are bad. I found recovery-road.org very helpful regarding waiting it out, especially this page.

http://www.recovery-road.org/acceptance

 

Wishing you a better day today.

Gardener

 

Hi Marija,

 

I am so sorry to hear you are not doing well.  Gardener gave you some good advice.  I am sure there are many on those boards that can offer advice from their experience with Xanax.

 

I hope that you can find a solution to this soon.

Anne

 

Anne and Gardener,

 

Thank you for commenting.

I will update my signature for clarity.

Currently I am holding at 0.642 X and 4 mg V

I updosed from 0.62 X to 0.64 X (2.5%) on 6/16 and have been holding since.

Some of the burning pain has resolved but was replaced by the deep, deep spin & sacrum pain.

The last dose I felt functional (but symptomatic ) was .8 mg X (I keep a daily journal)

 

Since december - I have been tapering 2.5% X every 7-10 days.

Since  March - 2.5% every 14 days

June - hit with extreme symptoms. Updosed to .642 and holding.

 

So yes, I am micro tapering but not daily. I have an opportunity next week to discuss obtaining liquid X to move forward with daily, MT.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

Marija,

 

I also  got hit really  bad in June with symptoms. I suspect it's because of the summer, and benzos are known to mess with histamine levels. I wonder if you tried some things to get your histamine levels down, if you would find this taper more tolerable. low histamine diet, quercetin, many psych meds have anti histamine properties. it is just a thought to look into.

 

hang in there, you WILL make it through this

 

hugs

shan

[[We...]]

anyone want to help me with wafer klonopin? dont know where to begin

 

I have heard the term wafer mentioned regarding meds, but I don't know what it means.

 

Any of the more experienced people know if you wafers are treated the same way as normal pills? do we dissolve or cut them in the same way?

 

 

[[We...]]

Does anyone know if detox or inpatient psychiatric facilities take patients who are micro tapering? I feel like i have lost my mind and in too of that having medical issues from what i believe to be the tapering.

 

Hi Dontforgetme,

 

I'm really sorry to hear of your struggles, with the benzos and your dad. my heavens, I hope and pray things will resolve and he stabilizes for his sake and yours. I know stress can  make the symtpoms so much worse.

 

If you feel the need to go into a psych ward for monitoring, I 100% agree with Gardner, go there, and stabilze onto a certain dose, and do not try to taper there. I believe the medical community are well intentioned but know very little about benzo withdrawls and would try to take you off of it faster than would be comfortable.

 

There are lots of people here who can help you with a microtaper schedule. It has helped a lot of people get off their benzos and minimize a lot of bad sx's.

 

please hang in there. your life will not be this horrible forever. You are not alone. and you can do this. when I am in a really bad way, I like to read the recover stories on this site to help remind me of whats a head of me. You will heal, too.

 

lots of love and hope.

shannon

 

 

 

 

[[Hi...]]

I know moodl helped me with the before but how much should I taper to do a micro taper I'm cutting from 5.6mg to 5.4mg tomorrow and that is far from Microsoft. I'm currently cutting .03 off starting from . 900 of weight how much should I taper a day to do a micro taper these cuts are brutal and I don't really stabilize because I'm so kindled

[[Sy...]]

Hi everyone and especially Builder and sharkey...I just wanted to check in and let you know that I have been following your suggestions going back to May and I am doing well. I can't thank you enough for your kindness and patience in helping me set my taper schedule and supporting me when I got scared or messed up. I don't think I could have done it without you! If all goes well I should be jumping by Thanksgiving...I am looking forward to it. It's great to know that you are there when I need someone's help. All my best to you and hope that all is well. All hail the math gurus!

 

It's so good to hear from you, Syndney! And especially such good news!

 

I (we) have a micro tapering blog now where many of us hang out and chit chat. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=137928.msg1848581#msg1848581

Sharkey named it, I set it up, and now it is in full swing. Please come over and join us!

 

Gardener 

 

Thank you Gardener for the kind words and the invite, Gardener, I will do that!

[[Sy...]]

Just a quick note to thank everyone for their kind words. Support on this site means alot to me as I am sure it does to everyone! As sharkey would say, it helps me to "stay strong."

 

[[ga...]]

Hello dear buddies,

 

Hope all is well with your tapers.

 

I am only on day 2 of my taper and am having sort of extreme withdrawal symptoms, like jaw and arms and legs stiff, irritability and of course tinnitus.

 

Do you think that I am making my solution incorrectly?

 

I only have a 5ml oral syringe and was wondering can I still make cuts efficiently with it.  When you say on day 1 to cut to 99.5 (the .5 equals 1/2 ml.....right).  Would it be easier if I purchased a 1ml syringe.

 

I realize that probably am one of the "dumb ones."  But I am honestly confused.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

Doodle did hold at full dose? How long?

 

Yes, .5ml is 1/2 a ml and you can use the 5ml syringe.

 

Briefly tell me how you make your solution.

 

Sharkey

 

Hello Sharkey,

 

I held at the full dose for 8 days.

 

I make a 2 day solution with the .5 mg pill dissolved in 2 ml vodka,  then add 198 ml water.

 

I have been working with just the one bottle to draw out my doses.  On Monday measured out 50 ml and removed the .5 ml from my morning dose.  On Tuesday did the same removing 1 ml from my morning dose.  Today I was to remove 1.5 ml so I took 1 ml from morning dose and thought that I would remove the remainder from my night time dose.

 

Perhaps my problem is that I need more containers to work with.....first of all.  And second I should remove the cut from the entire daily amount of 100 ml and divide my 2 doses evenly.

 

Today I had a pretty bad day and probably will not cut the other .5 ml this evening.

 

Or maybe I just need to stay on my full dose in liquids for a few more day before removing anything.

 

Sorry to be such a pain.  Hope I was brief enough.

 

Thanks so much.

doodle dog

 

Yes,  I would definitely suggest holding at full dose for a while longer.

 

ditto, doodle dog. (try saying that five times fast) I'd hold your full dose awhile longer until your body gets used to the liquid. hang in there, buddy. You can do this! we are all here for you.

 

hugs,

shannon

 

Hey Shannon,

 

I will do.  Thanks so much.  Guess I feel sort of defeated.  I had no idea to what degree ativan had a hold of my psyche and body.  Very scary.

 

Hope you are doing well.

doodle dog

 

Doodle,

I'm pretty sure we all felt like this when we first started to taper...when we realized how hard it was to do this. I remember when I first decided to get off this, and started to taper and got hit with the worst symptoms, I was FLOORED. I  couldn't believe how hard this was.

 

But I guess I sorta believe in the big-picture-plan kinda thing. I think we are all going thru this so we can help prevent others from even starting this stuff in the future. because of our experiences, we will be able to help countless people. So hang in there, it might be a little bit of time before we are free of these things, but we will get there.

 

hugs, shannon

 

This is so true!  Facing this experience head on can be very intimidating.  And in the beginning can cause a lot of headache and unfortunately increases symptoms in a way that cannot be measured.  ACCEPTANCE at this point is the most important decision you can make.  once you do this it makes the process less painful.  This has been my experience.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

Hey Shannon & Sharkey,

 

Thank you so much for your encouraging words.  Yes, I will accept and face the symptoms head on because it beats the alternative of being on this yucky stuff forever and not being my true self.

 

So glad to know that I am not alone in this battle.

 

With gratitude,

doodle dog

 

I can so relate to how doodle is feeling and this whole conversation! Thanks buddies!

 

P.S. I found my 5 ml syringe impossible and use these 1 ml syringes now. Very easy to read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013Y6JK2?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

[[ga...]]

I know moodl helped me with the before but how much should I taper to do a micro taper I'm cutting from 5.6mg to 5.4mg tomorrow and that is far from Microsoft. I'm currently cutting .03 off starting from . 900 of weight how much should I taper a day to do a micro taper these cuts are brutal and I don't really stabilize because I'm so kindled

 

Hi Hiphop! Good to see you! FYI, Sharkey just became a dad yesterday! Healthy baby boy.

 

I understand about just going forward anyway even when you feel awful. I held for a month after my crash and did not improve much, so decided to just micro cut every other day so I could at least see I was making progress! Still don't feel great but actually had a window of about half the day (best and longest ever) recently where I felt like the world was real again. No idea why!

 

And now, for micro tapering help,  I defer to the math gurus.

[[ga...]]

Just a quick note to thank everyone for their kind words. Support on this site means alot to me as I am sure it does to everyone! As sharkey would say, it helps me to "stay strong."

 

:thumbsup:

 

[[...]]

I know moodl helped me with the before but how much should I taper to do a micro taper I'm cutting from 5.6mg to 5.4mg tomorrow and that is far from Microsoft. I'm currently cutting .03 off starting from . 900 of weight how much should I taper a day to do a micro taper these cuts are brutal and I don't really stabilize because I'm so kindled

 

What kind of pill do you have that weighs .900g?

 

[[Mo...]]

I know moodl helped me with the before but how much should I taper to do a micro taper I'm cutting from 5.6mg to 5.4mg tomorrow and that is far from Microsoft. I'm currently cutting .03 off starting from . 900 of weight how much should I taper a day to do a micro taper these cuts are brutal and I don't really stabilize because I'm so kindled

 

What kind of pill do you have that weighs .900g?

 

SG, he is talking about the total weight of his pills. Dosing three times a day, pills weighing 0.300, if I'm not mistaken.

Hope you don't mind me answering. I think Hip has trouble posting some days , if I remember correctly.

It's somewhere on this thread. I'll look it up and re post if I can find it. Back in a bit.

[[...]]

I know moodl helped me with the before but how much should I taper to do a micro taper I'm cutting from 5.6mg to 5.4mg tomorrow and that is far from Microsoft. I'm currently cutting .03 off starting from . 900 of weight how much should I taper a day to do a micro taper these cuts are brutal and I don't really stabilize because I'm so kindled

 

What kind of pill do you have that weighs .900g?

 

SG, he is talking about the total weight of his pills. Dosing three times a day, pills weighing 0.300, if I'm not mistaken.

Hope you don't mind me answering. I think Hip has trouble posting some days , if I remember correctly.

It's somewhere on this thread. I'll look it up and re post if I can find it. Back in a bit.

 

Even a .300g pill is very heavy.  I've never seen anything much above .180g so I suspect he may have a capsule or something compounded?  But weight is good.  The more it weighs the more accurate the scale method will be.

[[Mo...]]

This was Hiphops original question and my reply:

 

Re: Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

« Reply #318 on: June 18, 2015, 09:38:29 pm »

Quote

Quote from: Hiphopanonymous on June 18, 2015, 01:50:17 pm

Ok so is someone going to help me set up my taper plan please I'm finger begging I got my scale I take 2mg ativan 3x a day and each pill weighs .300 I want to do a daily micro taper and come off 5% every two weeks will someone please help me with the math for this I keep asking and I got one response and then they dissapeared. Is everyone so wrapped up in their own taper to help someone out that is desperately asking for help?I see in everyone signiature that you are all doing micro taper so I know someone can help me set this up please I'm not being rude I'm just desperate I really need help my sanity is riding on this I'm very sick I've been asking on multiple boards for weeks now

 

Please help me I have all the information you would need to help me set this up and understand

 

Please somebody.....

 

Then I replied this

Alright Hiphop,

Like I said per pm, I'm posting the schedule her for the first 5% per 14 days taper.

Remmeber, you're going per pill WEIGHT, which is 0.300 gram you said. The average pill weight for your 2 mgr ( concentration valium weight , not the actual weigh of the pill. Which is 0.300 gram)

 

This is for the first 14 days.

The increments are very tiny with a scale. It might be difficult to start at deist because it's so tiny. But eventually you'll notice.

 

Now, I never did more than 3 decimal,places. I rounded that off ,if it was 4 decimals.

Your scale might not be that accurate .

In fact, I'm sure it will fluctuate. And I weighed my pill a few times, then took the average and then went for it.

 

It will be very easy to make you the schedule for the next 14 days. In fact, this is made for ONE of your doses.

So, you could start this with ONE of your doses.

Then after 14 days, you'll do the same with your second dose.

And after 14 days, you'll do the same with your third dose.

 

Of course, when you start tapering your second dose ( same pill , same dose , same schedule ) , you'll have to shave all your pills for the dose you already tapered, too. To 2.850.

 

If anything isn't clear let me know.

This is how I tapered my Ativan.

 

Again, it would be really great if your doc will script you liquid Valium. It's more accurate and no weigh hassle. But if she doesn't, then this is what ya got.

 

This is for 3x 14 days. Because you'll be doing the same for all three doses. And will be 15% total of your dose after those 42 days.

The rest is just a matter of putting in a spreadsheet so just holler.

Good luck at the doctor tomorrow.

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

0.0015    is the 5% taper every 2 weeks (10 days of tapering)     

Where a single 2mg tablet = 0.300 gram-weight       

           

Day    Morning    Afternoon    Evening   

1    0.2985    0.3    0.3   

2    0.297    0.3    0.3   

3    0.2955    0.3    0.3   

4    0.294    0.3    0.3   

5    0.2925    0.3    0.3   

6    0.2925    0.3    0.3   

7    0.2925    0.3    0.3   

8    0.291    0.3    0.3   

9    0.2895    0.3    0.3   

10    0.288    0.3    0.3   

11    0.2865    0.3    0.3   

12    0.285    0.3    0.3   

13    0.285    0.3    0.3   

14    0.285    0.3    0.3 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And then I came up with this :

http://j.mp/1LmDebI

 

I am not sure where is at right now. My brain won't process more at the moment. I also couldn't copy and past well. Sorry. Hope it makes sense

[[Mo...]]

gosh, that looks awful.

 

Anyway, I remember my Ativan pills weighing somewhere around .25 and those were 1 mgr tabs. So I'm guessing it's the 2 mgr tab he uses. 

Sorry I'm so messy right now

[[...]]

gosh, that looks awful.

 

Anyway, I remember my Ativan pills weighing somewhere around .25 and those were 1 mgr tabs. So I'm guessing it's the 2 mgr tab he uses. 

Sorry I'm so messy right now

 

Where's the picture rotate button?   But I can see it is a 2mg pill that weighs .300g.  I'm confused as I thought Ativan pills were smaller than the other benzos.  But his are quite heavy so I'd like to know what we are dealing with.  If it is a capsule the shell weight has to be subtracted from the drug weight.

[[ga...]]

SG and Moodle,

 

I can't help but wonder if Hiphop is having so much trouble because 1. he is on a fast benzo and 2. he is dry cutting when he is in bad shape.

 

I dry cut my trazodone and remember how incredibly difficult it was to get an accurate cut. I finally had to have my son do the calibrating and cutting for me. And I was in much better shape back then.

 

Plus, being on Xanax, I totally sympathize with how awful tapering fast benzos can be for some people. Some of us are fast metabolizers, anyway. A fast benzo would be double awful for us. I agree with your suggestion that switching to liquid Valium could help even out some of Hiphop's symptoms.  He would need a doctor willing to help him do the crossover and do it slowly and cautiously. 

 

Here's a link to Ashton's crossover chart: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s7  Ativan is schedule 8. She uses 3mg Ativan in her example, which a math guru could easily convert to Hip's dose (2mgx3??).

 

I am planning to talk to my doctor tomorrow about crossing to Librium. I am really sick of all these doses, and especially waking in the middle of the night shaking and needing a dose.

 

Finally, you're right, Hiphop has trouble posting and finding posts because of his withdrawal symptoms. Thanks so much for working with him on this!

 

[[...]]

Hiphop's table rotated...

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Seth_Ghiorse/Hiphop_zps9xbiftzw.png

[[ga...]]

Hiphop's table rotated...

 

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/Seth_Ghiorse/Hiphop_zps9xbiftzw.png

 

SG is a computer guru, too!

[[Mo...]]

When I look at it, it's not rotated....

Weird.

[[Hi...]]

Lol you guys are amazing. Yes I'm on 2mg pills each weighing . 3

I just cut from 5.6mg to 5.4 today. But I think if I stabilize after this cut at all I want to try micro tapering I don't ever have intrrdose withdrawal I dose 3 x a day I just have withdrawal and I get no relief after dosing it's just straight up tolerance withdrawal. I know cuz I had to take 20mg of valium for wisdom teeth extraction two weeks ago and I had a window for like 3 days. But how long does it take to feel the cut and stabilize.?

Do you stabilize quicker cuz it's short acting?

 

I can't really switch over to valium I'm already so unstable I never stabilize but I do have occasional days where I feel ok I go through massive severe waves even when holding because of my reinstated so far out and my ct was so traumatic I spent 6 months doing ct after ct trying to get off and I think I'm just stuck on withdrawal the fear only went away for short while after reinstating. Now all the mental symptoms are back even worse but it did get rid of a lot of the nerve symptoms which I'm scared will come back during the taper

 

So that's where I'm at right now  I haven't been very active on the forum lately cuz I can't relate to many people on the degree of suffering and it scares me because I was off for 6 months and had no improvement things actually got worse.... well some things did and now I'm on methadone too which is killer!.

 

But I like this board I think this will be my home group. Everyone here seems so close and helpful and possitive.

 

I'm doing ok today I did ok yesterday also was able to go out on a date with my girlfriend. I don't understand how I can be so so sick and mentally insane I am convinced I'm dying for like two weeks and pulling my hair out and crying anpsychotic then I feel ok for a couple days if I'm lucky. Should have never reinstated my liver is not doing well and having all kinds of neurologic problems and teeth problems that are most likely because of gabapentin

 

Sorry for this insanely long post. Maybe I can switch to valium after I get further down on the ativan. I feel a bad bad storm brewing. Can't wait for the fear and overwhelmed hypochondriac obsession about health and pills and akathisia and sickness. I mean I get so sick I can't walk I'm so dizzy and nauseous. And start thinking I never been this bad before.....

 

Ug so anyway it's to late to micro taper this batch because I only get 10 days at a time and I already cut my pills down to .27 I wonder how long till I feel it and how long before the symptoms die back down again

Next batch I will start trying the micro if I can get it set up my scale is not super accurate and I refuse to do liquid I can't with my living situation.

 

Chris

[[ga...]]

When I look at it, it's not rotated....

Weird.

 

That is weird. Yours looks upside down and SG's looks right side up on my computer.

[[Mo...]]

When I look at it, it's not rotated....

Weird.

 

That is weird. Yours looks upside down and SG's looks right side up on my computer.

 

Both of them are right side up on my end. 

[Guest [Ma...]]

Buddies,

Just spoke with my Pdoc and chemist.

Pdoc is not ready to script Intensol but would consider it if the chemist will confirm the details of dilution.

The chemist is concerned about the precipitation of diluting the Intensol with water. He is suggesting using almond oil or glycol to prevent the water precipitation leading to inaccurate alprazolam dosing.

For now, I am restricted to moving forward with MT capsules. He will reduce from .642 to .63.

I posted earlier, but no response, on my concern that the alprazolam raw material expired in 11/2014. The chemist feels, in his experience, that it is still stable.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Marija

 

[[Mo...]]

Buddies,

Just spoke with my Pdoc and chemist.

Pdoc is not ready to script Intensol but would consider it if the chemist will confirm the details of dilution.

The chemist is concerned about the precipitation of diluting the Intensol with water. He is suggesting using almond oil or glycol to prevent the water precipitation leading to inaccurate alprazolam dosing.

For now, I am restricted to moving forward with MT capsules. He will reduce from .642 to .63.

I posted earlier, but no response, on my concern that the alprazolam raw material expired in 11/2014. The chemist feels, in his experience, that it is still stable.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Marija

 

I so sorry , I don't have anything on this..

I think it's kind of odd that you'd get something expired.

Hoping someone else will come along who knows more about this. Maybe Sg or Anne ?