Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[bu...]]

I think we're really all in agreement.  We liquify/dilute in order to facilitate measuring/dosing small quantities, more precisely.  But the 1mg=10ml, or a 1mg=100ml solution will both have the same physiological effect.

[[an...]]

I think we're really all in agreement.  We liquify/dilute in order to facilitate measuring/dosing small quantities, more precisely.  But the 1mg=10ml, or a 1mg=100ml solution will both have the same physiological effect.

 

Yes, of course they will have the same physiological effect--we are all in agreement with that. It is preferable to measure 1.0 mL of a solution that is 0.005 mg/mL than measure 0.1 mL of a solution that is 0.05 mg/mL.  Both measurements will result in 0.005 mg of benzo. But, any error in measurement will be magnified when measuring out 0.1 mL compared to 1.0 mL. 

[Guest [Fu...]]

In the last week there have been no windows per se but the waves have been less intense at times. So waves within a wave... today seems to be the worst day of the week and I've held a good chunk of this week.  I just don't get it. Ive been dlmt since February and I cannot get myself stable for longer than a few days.

 

That sounds like what happened to me, big waves, little waves, but always waves. Pure misery. I ended up doing a long hold. My doctor wanted me to and I could not function to take care of myself, so I did it. It was nearly a year, but I got stable enough to resume my taper. I think my mistake was thinking a DMT and slowing down was going to be enough to stabilize me, but I was past that point. Once I was seriously destabilized (nearly constant waves), slowing down or a hold of a week wasn't going to stabilize me. The long hold stabilized me. Long holds are not 100% fool proof and some doctors won't cooperate, but if it's an option, it's worth looking into.

 

I see your choices as:

 

1. Push through if you can tolerate the waves and still function and your priority is getting off. (I've seen this work for people having an adverse reaction to the drug who need off at all costs, but more often it seems to send the person into post w/d misery.)

2. Slow down even more and incorporate regular holds, maybe a week on, a week off.

3. Go over to the Long Hold support group and ask Valley what he thinks.<-- my vote

 

Gard

 

Long Hold

 

So those of us who haven't even started tapering but are facing absolutely miserable symptoms pretty much all the time are looking at a long taper where that never lets up as well as "post w/d misery"? How on Earth is anyone supposed to make it through this?

[[bu...]]

    Both measurements will result in 0.005 mg of benzo. But, any error in measurement will be magnified when measuring out 0.1 mL compared to 1.0 mL.

 

Absolutely. 

[[ga...]]

In the last week there have been no windows per se but the waves have been less intense at times. So waves within a wave... today seems to be the worst day of the week and I've held a good chunk of this week.  I just don't get it. Ive been dlmt since February and I cannot get myself stable for longer than a few days.

 

That sounds like what happened to me, big waves, little waves, but always waves. Pure misery. I ended up doing a long hold. My doctor wanted me to and I could not function to take care of myself, so I did it. It was nearly a year, but I got stable enough to resume my taper. I think my mistake was thinking a DMT and slowing down was going to be enough to stabilize me, but I was past that point. Once I was seriously destabilized (nearly constant waves), slowing down or a hold of a week wasn't going to stabilize me. The long hold stabilized me. Long holds are not 100% fool proof and some doctors won't cooperate, but if it's an option, it's worth looking into.

 

I see your choices as:

 

1. Push through if you can tolerate the waves and still function and your priority is getting off. (I've seen this work for people having an adverse reaction to the drug who need off at all costs, but more often it seems to send the person into post w/d misery.)

2. Slow down even more and incorporate regular holds, maybe a week on, a week off.

3. Go over to the Long Hold support group and ask Valley what he thinks.<-- my vote

 

Gard

 

Long Hold

 

So those of us who haven't even started tapering but are facing absolutely miserable symptoms pretty much all the time are looking at a long taper where that never lets up as well as "post w/d misery"? How on Earth is anyone supposed to make it through this?

 

I'm very sorry you're in such a bad place, Fuzzy. I'm also sorry I don't have the expertise to given an opinion about your complex medication history and current situation.

 

Benzo Buddies is a peer-support forum, so what most of us do is seek out Buddies who have been in or are in similar places to us and share with them. And then we do trial and error until we figure out a way that works for us. I can attest to the fact that the trial and error times can be very painful. For some, the entire taper is very painful. But how we all get though this nightmare is one day at a time. And one day we find ourselves in the place we thought we'd never be, free of benzos.

[[Ki...]]

In the last week there have been no windows per se but the waves have been less intense at times. So waves within a wave... today seems to be the worst day of the week and I've held a good chunk of this week.  I just don't get it. Ive been dlmt since February and I cannot get myself stable for longer than a few days.

 

That sounds like what happened to me, big waves, little waves, but always waves. Pure misery. I ended up doing a long hold. My doctor wanted me to and I could not function to take care of myself, so I did it. It was nearly a year, but I got stable enough to resume my taper. I think my mistake was thinking a DMT and slowing down was going to be enough to stabilize me, but I was past that point. Once I was seriously destabilized (nearly constant waves), slowing down or a hold of a week wasn't going to stabilize me. The long hold stabilized me. Long holds are not 100% fool proof and some doctors won't cooperate, but if it's an option, it's worth looking into.

 

I see your choices as:

 

1. Push through if you can tolerate the waves and still function and your priority is getting off. (I've seen this work for people having an adverse reaction to the drug who need off at all costs, but more often it seems to send the person into post w/d misery.)

2. Slow down even more and incorporate regular holds, maybe a week on, a week off.

3. Go over to the Long Hold support group and ask Valley what he thinks.<-- my vote

 

Gard

 

Long Hold

 

So those of us who haven't even started tapering but are facing absolutely miserable symptoms pretty much all the time are looking at a long taper where that never lets up as well as "post w/d misery"? How on Earth is anyone supposed to make it through this?

 

Not necessarily. I started doing better after I had been tapering. I was miserable to the nth degree until I crossed over to valium and started tapering. It took a while to figure out the right taper rate- who am I kidding I still dont know that. But even though its still hard, as healing takes place for me many things get easier. I have bad times and good times and I am grateful that now I have good times. Before I got fairly stable tapering I was totally miserable. I hope you find the right direction for you very soon.

[Guest [Fu...]]

I was fairly stable for 10 months during my first taper then out of nowhere I got rocked, panicked and updosed and have never recovered that's what's so frustrating. Now everything I do seems to make things worse including trying to begin another liquid taper, doing a long hold and switching to Valium. It's hard to accept that I'm going to have to microtaper feeling so unstable since I thought the whole point of a microtaper was to try and keep things stable (but it's not like I can make bigger cuts so I don't have a choice). No matter how much I try to accept it the fact is that it's miserable and scary as hell. Tapering very slowly when you're at least somewhat functional is one thing but doing it when you're bed ridden and your quality of life is pretty much zero is a whole different one.

[[Ki...]]

Thats true. I had failed tapers in the past and I do think it makes things worse. And for some it could make them much worse. But luckily most people- not all but most DO end up where their brains finally find that place where the chemistry works. Im just sorry its taking so long for you to find yours. Hopefully it will happen soon- for some its just all of a sudden things start working again...

[[po...]]

Kitty , Fuzzy, and others....What are your cut rates??  Im about to start one after trying to stabilize for two months.  Im functional and have been having more good than bad days.  Im on liquid valium 5mg.  I plan on starting my daily cut rate .01mg...that works out to 5% cut over 25 days.  For those of you having trouble with the daily micro is this too high or is this the amount your cutting??  Im so scared.  But Ive heard so many success stories about starting a DMT and if you find your rate you start to heal on the way down!

So what are you cutting each day?

[Guest [Fu...]]

If I could redo my first taper I think if I had started at 5% and not 10% that I wouldn't have gotten slammed. There's no way of knowing obviously but that's just how I feel. I think 10% is too fast for many people.

[[Da...]]

I've been cutting .001mg of k per day but I have started my taper feeling terrible and come out of it even while tapering. Our plan is to taper .001mg until I'm feeling more stable then increase to .002mg per day. If that goes well, increase to .003mg and so on.

 

I just passed my 1 year mark of enduring this hell and I'm honestly not sure how I've made it through this much torture. Every day it's a new form of torture. I had high hopes for dlmt but so far it's just cycling a few good days and then a bunch of really shitty ones that get worse and worse and worse.

[[po...]]

Fuzzy

When you got slammed did it come out of nowhere or were there tiny warning signs before?

[[po...]]

Dad24boys

How long have you been doing this daily taper at this rate?  Did you say you found a little relief once starting?  I've heard from people who followed this plan going as slow as you that within a few months they felt better.  I have spoken with a few people healed who were under Jana's help.  They were all bad and once their brain accepted the small taper rate their symptoms started lessening and even going away.

Im praying this works for us that way!  I haven't started yet after my mistakes.  I was going to start today but had another not so great night with inner tremors and shaking.  I was fine for a week! now this.

 

[[Da...]]

Dad24boys

How long have you been doing this daily taper at this rate?  Did you say you found a little relief once starting?  I've heard from people who followed this plan going as slow as you that within a few months they felt better.  I have spoken with a few people healed who were under Jana's help.  They were all bad and once their brain accepted the small taper rate their symptoms started lessening and even going away.

Im praying this works for us that way!  I haven't started yet after my mistakes.  I was going to start today but had another not so great night with inner tremors and shaking.  I was fine for a week! now this.

 

Pooky - I've been doing .001 for about 5 weeks with a whole lot of holds. I'll feel good, like normal, for a few days then get SLAMMED with sxs. My mental state is not good right now. I did a bunch around the house those few days and think it was too much.

[[po...]]

Dad24boys

Do you hold when you feel symptoms starting?  How often do you hold?  Were you stable before starting this Daily micro?

[[Da...]]

Dad24boys

Do you hold when you feel symptoms starting?  How often do you hold?  Were you stable before starting this Daily micro?

 

I do hold but then I seem to get worse instead of better. And when I'm tapering again at .001 after a few days I start to feel better. It doesn't make sense. None of it.

[Guest [vi...]]

Dad24boys

Do you hold when you feel symptoms starting?  How often do you hold?  Were you stable before starting this Daily micro?

 

I do hold but then I seem to get worse instead of better. And when I'm tapering again at .001 after a few days I start to feel better. It doesn't make sense. None of it.

 

Were you stable before starting this Daily micro?

[[po...]]

Dad42boys...if you feel worse holding why do you hold then?  Have you tried not holding?  I've heard this that tapering small amounts actually starts to make us feel better.

 

Vineet...Were you stable before starting?  You just started right?  What are your reductions?  Do you feel any difference since starting?

[[Da...]]

Dad24boys

Do you hold when you feel symptoms starting?  How often do you hold?  Were you stable before starting this Daily micro?

 

I do hold but then I seem to get worse instead of better. And when I'm tapering again at .001 after a few days I start to feel better. It doesn't make sense. None of it.

 

Were you stable before starting this Daily micro?

 

I was fairly stable. Maybe not 100% but better than I had been.

[[Da...]]

Dad42boys...if you feel worse holding why do you hold then?  Have you tried not holding?  I've heard this that tapering small amounts actually starts to make us feel better.

 

Vineet...Were you stable before starting?  You just started right?  What are your reductions?  Do you feel any difference since starting?

 

I only hold because I'm petrified of continuing to taper and then get worse and worse and worse. But I typically only hold for about 3-4 days before we resume the taper.

[[ga...]]

Dad, I've seen members before who report they feel better when they are cutting. Some members feel better as they get lower. Some need to slow down because they feel worse. Each person's CNS is unique. Listen to your body and taper in a way that works for you. As long as you're not rushing, staying at or below 10% per month, this pattern you have going may be just the right thing to get you off.

 

Gard

[[po...]]

Im really worried.  No one seems to have done their taper with the Liquid Diazepam Intensol 5mg/1ml concentrate solution.  Its made with alcohol.  Builder assured me the alcohol is minimal but it also says on the box used immediately after diluting.

 

The only thing I did different this past week is start diluting it in the morning so when I take my evening dose its been sitting all day.  Its in an air tight ball jar protected from light.

 

ANYONE have experience with this form of liquid valium??

 

Builder your sure it won't lose potency sitting there?  Why would they put that on the box?  Use immediately after dilution?

 

Im sorry, Im just so scared of all the unknowns.

[Guest [vi...]]

Vineet...Were you stable before starting?  You just started right?  What are your reductions?  Do you feel any difference since starting?

 

yes i was stable before starting dlmt. actually no i wasn't -- but i'm talking of feb 17 when i made the first dry cut (12%). i was in severe tolerance withdrawal (depression) then and in that state i made my dry cut and i got slammed. i recovered to baseline (the depression of tolerance withdrawal i.e.) and decided that i had to get stable before i could resume taper -- otherwise the process was inhuman. fast forward to july '17 and now i am stable with the help of an ssri (and i haven't felt better in life).

 

i started dlmt on 14th july (pace -- 2.5 mg librium or 14% a month).  so today is my 2nd day. judging by past experience, i am still in the honeymoon phase and withdrawals, if any, should commence from tuesday. i am very nervous. i want to have a minimal sx taper and i don't care how long it takes. i wish i could fast forward to tuesday. if it's gonna kill me, i wish it'd kill me now instead of giving me this false sense of calm and security till tue/wed. i feel like the sacrificial abrahamic lamb waiting for eid.

 

 

[[bu...]]

 

Builder your sure it won't lose potency sitting there?

Absolutely!  It would not lose potency, even if it sat for months.

 

Why would they put that on the box?  Use immediately after dilution?

 

Because it's an alcohol solvent, and subject to evaporation when not enclosed.  (I think I explained that once before)

 

Im sorry, Im just so scared of all the unknowns.

 

Think about it.  The diazepam Intensol is basically a mixture of diazepam, alcohol, and water when you get it, and has been stable for a long time.  How is adding some water going to change that?  Keep your diluted liquid sealed, and it will be fine.

 

Or, if your really obsessed about it, ask your doc for a scrip for Diazepam Oral Solution, 1mg=1ml.

[[Go...]]

Gard, just wondering if by 10% you mean 10% of the current dose or 10% of starting dose. Also that is 10% per month correct? Thanks, Goodchance Muddlebrain.