Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[Ki...]]

When I start my DLMT I will be using bourbon. Southern girl, ya know. No martini for me- it will be a benzo highball!

[[Su...]]

When I start my DLMT I will be using bourbon. Southern girl, ya know. No martini for me- it will be a benzo highball!

:laugh:

[[Ca...]]

Thanks SS... sounds like u got the attitude to make this taper work, no matter what the "mix", or "advice"...

 

So for someone with the time..  Was my mix of 10Mg V + 20ml vodka and 80ml water, not right...??

Do I now need 980ml water.. ??

 

Though I did agitate, avoiding a vortex... I think even bird shot would have been fairly evenly distributed...

 

[[bu...]]

Thanks SS... sounds like u got the attitude to make this taper work, no matter what the "mix", or "advice"...

 

So for someone with the time.. Was my mix of 10Mg V + 20ml vodka and 80ml water, not right...??

Do I now need 980ml water.. ??

 

Though I did agitate, avoiding a vortex... I think even bird shot would have been fairly evenly distributed...

 

That ratio will always work. 

[Guest [vi...]]

Benzo martini sounds SO much more attractive than "those stupid pills" doesnt it?

 

Come to think of it, James Bond drank a vodka martini, shaken, not stirred. We are all so cool.

 

hi gardener! can you help me? --> http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=184375.msg2430539#msg2430539

 

is dissolving librium in water and not getting hung up on the li'l residue ok?

[[ga...]]

vineet2, I usually have my PMs turned off, so I'm glad you came here.

 

There is a lot of disagreement about how much water it takes to actually dissolve how much Librium. I suspect it may be quarts for a capsule. So I start with alcohol to be safe, just like any other benzo.

 

Heres what I do:

 

5mg capsule (opened and dumped into a small bottle) dissolved in 3ml of 80 proof vodka (swish it around so it's thoroughly mixed). My doctor told me the amount of alcohol is so small, it's insignificant. I don't worry about it. You will see little white specks of fillers that do not dissolve. Don't worry about them. Add 97ml of water to the bottle to make 100ml of solution. I use a graduated cylinder to measure the water. I take 3 doses so I do this in 3 bottles with tight lids. I use old vitamin bottles. Shake well. Pull out the reduction and pitch it. (I use an oral syringe for this.)

 

Another great debate is whether or not Librium is stable as a liquid. My pharmacist said no. From what I've read from googling around, it's probably OK to let it sit as a liquid for a day. I mix up my doses the night before for the next day and consume them within 24 hours. That's why I use the pull and pitch method. I don't like to let my dissolved Librium sit around. It starts to break down into its metabolites. Valium was created as an improvement to Librium and one improvement is Valilum doesn't break down as a liquid.

 

Another safety tip, whether you think your benzo is dissolved or not, it is a good idea to shake in an up and down motion (never circular) right before you pull from the bottle. It's sort of a better safe than sorry thing.

 

As far as math goes, builder is the math guru. I only mess people up when I try to figure taper rates and dilutions percents and all that. So I'll pass the ball back to builder.

 

Gard

 

P.S. You can skip the alcohol and just shake like crazy right before each pull. You may have a suspension instead of a solution, but if you pull quickly after you shake, it will still be a fairly even pull. This was a common method with tapering all benzos before someone came up with dissolving them.

[Guest [vi...]]

vineet2, I usually have my PMs turned off, so I'm glad you came here.

 

There is a lot of disagreement about how much water it takes to actually dissolve how much Librium. I suspect it may be quarts for a capsule. So I start with alcohol to be safe, just like any other benzo.

 

Heres what I do:

 

5mg capsule (opened and dumped into a small bottle) dissolved in 3ml of 80 proof vodka (swish it around so it's thoroughly mixed). My doctor told me the amount of alcohol is so small, it's insignificant. I don't worry about it. You will see little white specks of fillers that do not dissolve. Don't worry about them. Add 97ml of water to the bottle to make 100ml of solution. I use a graduated cylinder to measure the water. I take 3 doses so I do this in 3 bottles with tight lids. I use old vitamin bottles. Shake well. Pull out the reduction and pitch it. (I use an oral syringe for this.)

 

Another great debate is whether or not Librium is stable as a liquid. My pharmacist said no. From what I've read from googling around, it's probably OK to let it sit as a liquid for a day. I mix up my doses the night before for the next day and consume them within 24 hours. That's why I use the pull and pitch method. I don't like to let my dissolved Librium sit around. It starts to break down into its metabolites. Valium was created as an improvement to Librium and one improvement is Valilum doesn't break down as a liquid.

 

Another safety tip, whether you think your benzo is dissolved or not, it is a good idea to shake in an up and down motion (never circular) right before you pull from the bottle. It's sort of a better safe than sorry thing.

 

As far as math goes, builder is the math guru. I only mess people up when I try to figure taper rates and dilutions percents and all that. So I'll pass the ball back to builder.

 

Gard

 

P.S. You can skip the alcohol and just shake like crazy right before each pull. You may have a suspension instead of a solution, but if you pull quickly after you shake, it will still be a fairly even pull. This was a common method with tapering all benzos before someone came up with dissolving them.

 

awesome! thank you so much! i'll go with alcohol because "shaking up and down" is a problem for me -- the glass vial i dissolve it in has a glass stopper and it is not a perfect seal and then i will have to rinse the vial thoroughly with water and drink the water for the psychological satisfaction of having trapped all the librium particles.

 

yes, builder is the math guru. i will go to him if i have trouble with my arithmetic.

 

i will message you here again if i run into a problem.

 

thanks again!

[[ga...]]

vineet2, you still need to mix in some way. Is there room to stir? If you stir back and forth vigorously rather than around and around, that's better than not mixing at all. You're trying to avoid a vortex when you mix.

[Guest [vi...]]

vineet2, you still need to mix in some way. Is there room to stir? If you stir back and forth vigorously rather than around and around, that's better than not mixing at all. You're trying to avoid a vortex when you mix.

 

i see. i stir centripetally, round and round. i don't have a glass stirrer but have a sterile chopstick. should i use that? or should i get a tight, sealed vial and do the up down shaking?

[[ga...]]

vineet2, you still need to mix in some way. Is there room to stir? If you stir back and forth vigorously rather than around and around, that's better than not mixing at all. You're trying to avoid a vortex when you mix.

 

i see. i stir centripetally, round and round. i don't have a glass stirrer but have a sterile chopstick. should i use that? or should i get a tight, sealed vial and do the up down shaking?

 

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

[Guest [vi...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

[[ga...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

 

Sounds good! 

[[po...]]

This might be a really dumb question...but when you are measuring with the bigger syringes do you make sure the liquid goes to the rubber stopper each time?  because when I suction it up there is a space unless I squeeze it out and suction again.  this is because they have a long catheter tip.  Am I measuring the liquid in the catheter tip all the way to the line on the syringe?

I know Im probably not explaining this right.  But my 1ml syringe has a rubber stopper that pushes through the tip which makes it really accurate.  This is really confusing me.  I want it to be accurate.

[[jr...]]

You are more accurate whether you count the tip or not than dry cutting.Just do it the same way everytime and all will be well.

 

This might be a really dumb question...but when you are measuring with the bigger syringes do you make sure the liquid goes to the rubber stopper each time?  because when I suction it up there is a space unless I squeeze it out and suction again.  this is because they have a long catheter tip.  Am I measuring the liquid in the catheter tip all the way to the line on the syringe?

I know Im probably not explaining this right.  But my 1ml syringe has a rubber stopper that pushes through the tip which makes it really accurate.  This is really confusing me.  I want it to be accurate.

[[bu...]]

This might be a really dumb question...but when you are measuring with the bigger syringes do you make sure the liquid goes to the rubber stopper each time?  because when I suction it up there is a space unless I squeeze it out and suction again.  this is because they have a long catheter tip.  Am I measuring the liquid in the catheter tip all the way to the line on the syringe?

I know Im probably not explaining this right.  But my 1ml syringe has a rubber stopper that pushes through the tip which makes it really accurate.  This is really confusing me.  I want it to be accurate.

 

Fully depress the plunger, submerge the tip in liquid, and pull the plunger back to  your desired amount.

 

There will be an air gap  between the plunger and the liquid, and there will be liquid captured in the tip.

 

The volume of the air gap will be exactly the same volume that is captured in the tip.

[[po...]]

thank you all!

builder thats exactly what i needed to know

[[Ul...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

 

Sounds good! 

 

You've become the expert, Gard!! Told ya that would happen

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

 

Sounds good! 

 

You've become the expert, Gard!! Told ya that would happen

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

 

Good to see you, Jeff! How are you doing? Ah yes, I've become an expert on Librium w/d. Truthfully, SG and Anne taught me everything I know about Librium. Remember all those chemistry discussions just for me? Sure miss them here. Good thing we still have builder and a couple of other gurus still showing up.

 

Oh, and "can't" forget a shoutout to Cant who told me he could agitate back and forth with a spoon so well he could keep buckshot evenly distributed in water.

 

When I get better and am out job hunting, ya think should I put Librium w/d expert on my resume? It's kind of my only skill these past 2 years. 

 

Hugs back to ya!  Gard

[[Va...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

 

Sounds good! 

 

You've become the expert, Gard!! Told ya that would happen

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

 

Good to see you, Jeff! How are you doing? Ah yes, I've become an expert on Librium w/d. Truthfully, SG and Anne taught me everything I know about Librium. Remember all those chemistry discussions just for me? Sure miss them here. Good thing we still have builder and a couple of other gurus still showing up.

 

Oh, and "can't" forget a shoutout to Cant who told me he could agitate back and forth with a spoon so well he could keep buckshot evenly distributed in water.

 

When I get better and am out job hunting, ya think should I put Librium w/d expert on my resume? It's kind of my only skill these past 2 years. 

 

Hugs back to ya!  Gard

And here I thought this is how we were supposed to mix it.

 

                                            http://i.imgur.com/JJ8cRji.gif

[[ga...]]

I don't see any circular motion in there, so if you can get your pooch to do that for you, go for it! (But why isn't that a chicken ?) 

[[Va...]]

I don't see any circular motion in there, so if you can get your pooch to do that for you, go for it! (But why isn't that a chicken ?) 

Unfortunately a chicken is ill equipped to do this maneuver. It would have to lay on its back with its legs in the air. 

[[ga...]]

I don't see any circular motion in there, so if you can get your pooch to do that for you, go for it! (But why isn't that a chicken ?) 

Unfortunately a chicken is ill equipped to do this maneuver. It would have to lay on its back with its legs in the air. 

 

I defer to our chicken-meister and recommend everyone use their pet dogs rather than their chickens for shaking up their liquids.

[[Ul...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

 

Sounds good! 

 

You've become the expert, Gard!! Told ya that would happen

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

 

Good to see you, Jeff! How are you doing? Ah yes, I've become an expert on Librium w/d. Truthfully, SG and Anne taught me everything I know about Librium. Remember all those chemistry discussions just for me? Sure miss them here. Good thing we still have builder and a couple of other gurus still showing up.

 

Oh, and "can't" forget a shoutout to Cant who told me he could agitate back and forth with a spoon so well he could keep buckshot evenly distributed in water.

 

When I get better and am out job hunting, ya think should I put Librium w/d expert on my resume? It's kind of my only skill these past 2 years. 

 

Hugs back to ya!  Gard

 

Definitely!! Put 'Librium Expert' on your resume. These days, people will probably recognize it and look forward to your skills .  Such a huge epidemic of psych med problems in the world today. And I'm doing ok. I get on here and read the thread quite a bit even though I haven't posted much. I've been working a little extra lately, and that's taken some getting used to. I'll still be taperering about another 600 years, so I'd better get used to it.

 

Keep giving out the love and the great advice here! You be's da woman

 

Many hugs!

 

Jeff

[[ga...]]

CantFly says he stirs vigorously side to side and it works. I shake up and down. The main thing is no circular motion so you don't create a vortex. A vortex won't mix it up well.

 

I have plastic chopsticks I would imagine would work well. If they have a wider end, use the wide end in the liquid. I wouldn't use wooden chopsticks, which would soak up the med. As for sterile, um, no comment!

 

I used to use bottles with very narrow necks (Boston rounds), but found eventually they developed a biofilm that was a big nuisance to scrub clean through that tiny neck, so I switched to wider-necked bottles that were easier to clean. My empty vitamin bottles turned out to be my best bottles for ease of cleaning and not leaking. Maybe ask on the Titration board for ideas. Everybody on there is using some kind of jar or bottle.

 

Gard

 

thank you. yes sideways shaking is doable and i won't need the chopstick. i can see the vortex creating issues. actually a few ml of alcohol does a pretty good job dissolving all of it -- so i'll stick to alcohol.

 

Sounds good! 

 

You've become the expert, Gard!! Told ya that would happen

 

Hugs to ya!

 

Jeff

 

Good to see you, Jeff! How are you doing? Ah yes, I've become an expert on Librium w/d. Truthfully, SG and Anne taught me everything I know about Librium. Remember all those chemistry discussions just for me? Sure miss them here. Good thing we still have builder and a couple of other gurus still showing up.

 

Oh, and "can't" forget a shoutout to Cant who told me he could agitate back and forth with a spoon so well he could keep buckshot evenly distributed in water.

 

When I get better and am out job hunting, ya think should I put Librium w/d expert on my resume? It's kind of my only skill these past 2 years. 

 

Hugs back to ya!  Gard

 

Definitely!! Put 'Librium Expert' on your resume. These days, people will probably recognize it and look forward to your skills .  Such a huge epidemic of psych med problems in the world today. And I'm doing ok. I get on here and read the thread quite a bit even though I haven't posted much. I've been working a little extra lately, and that's taken some getting used to. I'll still be taperering about another 600 years, so I'd better get used to it.

 

Keep giving out the love and the great advice here! You be's da woman

 

Many hugs!

 

Jeff

 

Aw, thanks, Jeff.  I'm very glad to hear you're dong well even if you will be tapering for another 600 years. 

You keep checking in and letting us know you're OK. If you hear from Sharkey or SG, let us know about them, too! We old timers like to keep track of the other old timers.

 

Gard

[[Li...]]

Hello,

 

After doing a LOT of reading and research, I think microtapering with a scale might be best for me. I will go back and read the threads on here.

 

I am hoping for some advice- I tapered down to 1.0 K from 1.25 and I am ready to make another cut. Should I begin the microtaper now or wait until I am taking a smaller dosage?

 

I ordered a gram scale (Genesis 20). Should I get a razor blade to make the cuts? Do you cut daily and if so, how much? Any advice on easiest way to do this is appreciated! I am so glad that I found this forum. Thanks!