Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Hello, looking for some advice and if this is even possible.  I am tapering off of 2.75 mg's Valium from 15 mg's.  I've been ok up until recently and seem to have hit a wall.

 

1.  Can I prepare a liquid micro taper only using .25 or 1/4 of my 2 mg pills and reduce just that 1/4th or .25 mg's a month?

 

2.  Can I use a small amount of water...say 25 mL's instead of 100 mL's or more?

 

I know a lot of people do all liquid micro tapers, I've tried, and I cannot tolaerate all liquid for some reason. (I've made several attempts).  I have it compounded now in a 1:1 ratio, but the last two batches haven't been the same and I want to be in control of what I'm putting in etc...

 

Thanks for any and all advice!

 

Rach

With a liquid taper you can mix liquid and dry pills to suit your needs. You could certainly do what you are suggesting.  --V

 

V--  Do you think I could just use a jar, add 25 mL's of water, dissolve my V, then slowly take out a little each day???

 

Just having problems with figuring the correct math?  I guess 1 mL would be 25 days which is close or I could do 30 mL's and take away 1 mL for 30 days???

 

Oh my, so confused!?  Lol

 

Rach

1mg of V will need 2ml of vodka or PG to dissolve it...

without it the filler may dissolve, but the actual medicine could be anywhere...

 

First add the 80 proof vodka to dissolve. Then add the water to dilute. You need to dissolve first or the med will not be evenly dispersed in the liquid. The fillers may or may not dissolve. You may still see specks of fillers, but don't worry about it. The Valium will be dissolved.

[[bu...]]

 

1mg of V will need 2ml of vodka or PG to dissolve it...

without it the filler may dissolve, but the actual medicine could be anywhere...

 

First add the 80 proof vodka to dissolve. Then add the water to dilute. You need to dissolve first or the med will not be evenly dispersed in the liquid. The fillers may or may not dissolve. You may still see specks of fillers, but don't worry about it. The Valium will be dissolved.

 

All correct.  V, like most benzos is NOT water soluble.  You must start with a small amount of a solvent like vodka or propylene glycol, then that can be diluted with water.

[[Rh...]]

 

1mg of V will need 2ml of vodka or PG to dissolve it...

without it the filler may dissolve, but the actual medicine could be anywhere...

 

First add the 80 proof vodka to dissolve. Then add the water to dilute. You need to dissolve first or the med will not be evenly dispersed in the liquid. The fillers may or may not dissolve. You may still see specks of fillers, but don't worry about it. The Valium will be dissolved.

 

All correct.  V, like most benzos is NOT water soluble.  You must start with a small amount of a solvent like vodka or propylene glycol, then that can be diluted with water.

 

Ok, so I could use .25 mg's of V, dilute it with 10mL vodka or propylene glycol, then add 20 mL of water to make a 30 mL liquid?  Then I would take 1 mL out, drink the rest, the next day 2 mL out, drink the rest...and so on???

 

I'm really trying to do majority dry pills and only dissolve a .25 mg cut off piece.  I'll be using the same 2 mg pill each day for multiple dosing, so with filler and stuff it'll all even out.

 

Make sense or am I just going way overboard?

 

Rach

[[Va...]]

 

1mg of V will need 2ml of vodka or PG to dissolve it...

without it the filler may dissolve, but the actual medicine could be anywhere...

 

First add the 80 proof vodka to dissolve. Then add the water to dilute. You need to dissolve first or the med will not be evenly dispersed in the liquid. The fillers may or may not dissolve. You may still see specks of fillers, but don't worry about it. The Valium will be dissolved.

 

All correct.  V, like most benzos is NOT water soluble.  You must start with a small amount of a solvent like vodka or propylene glycol, then that can be diluted with water.

 

Ok, so I could use .25 mg's of V, dilute it with 10mL vodka or propylene glycol, then add 20 mL of water to make a 30 mL liquid?  Then I would take 1 mL out, drink the rest, the next day 2 mL out, drink the rest...and so on???

 

I'm really trying to do majority dry pills and only dissolve a .25 mg cut off piece.  I'll be using the same 2 mg pill each day for multiple dosing, so with filler and stuff it'll all even out.

 

Make sense or am I just going way overboard?

 

Rach

What you're suggesting sounds a little complicated. Why not dissolve a couple of 2mg (4mg) pills by using 8ml of vodka and 32ml of water. You can then use your dry pills for most of your dose and just draw out the cut portion of your dose. You could even make a bigger batch of solution if needed.  --V

[[Rh...]]

 

1mg of V will need 2ml of vodka or PG to dissolve it...

without it the filler may dissolve, but the actual medicine could be anywhere...

 

First add the 80 proof vodka to dissolve. Then add the water to dilute. You need to dissolve first or the med will not be evenly dispersed in the liquid. The fillers may or may not dissolve. You may still see specks of fillers, but don't worry about it. The Valium will be dissolved.

 

All correct.  V, like most benzos is NOT water soluble.  You must start with a small amount of a solvent like vodka or propylene glycol, then that can be diluted with water.

 

Ok, so I could use .25 mg's of V, dilute it with 10mL vodka or propylene glycol, then add 20 mL of water to make a 30 mL liquid?  Then I would take 1 mL out, drink the rest, the next day 2 mL out, drink the rest...and so on???

 

I'm really trying to do majority dry pills and only dissolve a .25 mg cut off piece.  I'll be using the same 2 mg pill each day for multiple dosing, so with filler and stuff it'll all even out.

 

Make sense or am I just going way overboard?

 

Rach

What you're suggesting sounds a little complicated. Why not dissolve a couple of 2mg (4mg) pills by using 8ml of vodka and 32ml of water. You can then use your dry pills for most of your dose and just draw out the cut portion of your dose. You could even make a bigger batch of solution if needed.  --V

 

Lol...ok, so make a liquid solution of 40 mL vodka and water, let my 4 mg of V dissolve, then draw out .25 mL's to start, .24 the next day and so on???  Could I use this batch for a few days?  Do I store in the fridge?

 

Can you help with the math if I wanted to reduce .25 mg's a month?

[[Va...]]

 

1mg of V will need 2ml of vodka or PG to dissolve it...

without it the filler may dissolve, but the actual medicine could be anywhere...

 

First add the 80 proof vodka to dissolve. Then add the water to dilute. You need to dissolve first or the med will not be evenly dispersed in the liquid. The fillers may or may not dissolve. You may still see specks of fillers, but don't worry about it. The Valium will be dissolved.

 

All correct.  V, like most benzos is NOT water soluble.  You must start with a small amount of a solvent like vodka or propylene glycol, then that can be diluted with water.

 

Ok, so I could use .25 mg's of V, dilute it with 10mL vodka or propylene glycol, then add 20 mL of water to make a 30 mL liquid?  Then I would take 1 mL out, drink the rest, the next day 2 mL out, drink the rest...and so on???

 

I'm really trying to do majority dry pills and only dissolve a .25 mg cut off piece.  I'll be using the same 2 mg pill each day for multiple dosing, so with filler and stuff it'll all even out.

 

Make sense or am I just going way overboard?

 

Rach

What you're suggesting sounds a little complicated. Why not dissolve a couple of 2mg (4mg) pills by using 8ml of vodka and 32ml of water. You can then use your dry pills for most of your dose and just draw out the cut portion of your dose. You could even make a bigger batch of solution if needed.  --V

 

Lol...ok, so make a liquid solution of 40 mL vodka and water, let my 4 mg of V dissolve, then draw out .25 mL's to start, .24 the next day and so on???  Could I use this batch for a few days?  Do I store in the fridge?

 

Can you help with the math if I wanted to reduce .25 mg's a month?

If you want to reduce .25 a month use a 1ml syringe to reduce by .01 each day. That would be the .1 or 1 mark on the 1ml syringe. The next day you draw to the 2 mark etc. That will have you reducing .3 every 30 days which is pretty close to .25 and less complicated than exactly .25mg.  --V

[[bu...]]

 

 

Ok, so I could use .25 mg's of V, dilute it with 10mL vodka or propylene glycol, then add 20 mL of water to make a 30 mL liquid?  Then I would take 1 mL out, drink the rest, the next day 2 mL out, drink the rest...and so on???

 

I'm really trying to do majority dry pills and only dissolve a .25 mg cut off piece.  I'll be using the same 2 mg pill each day for multiple dosing, so with filler and stuff it'll all even out.

 

Make sense or am I just going way overboard?

 

Rach

 

"...take out and drink the rest" is a silly  way to dose any liquid med!  Yeah, I know its what they do on youtube, but its silly.  If your doc gave you a scrip for a liquid med, would you take some out and rink the rest at each dose?

 

Tell me 1)  your current dose, 2)  how much you want to taper (mgs or % and time, like "10% per 2 weeks"), and 3 what size tablets you have, and I will give you a detailed procedure.

[[Ma...]]

HELP::

 

This old way of daily preparation of vodka/ water solution is getting old. Last night I got so frustrated with a huge air bubble, I thru the syringe across the room and screamed. Also sometimes the valium doesn't dissolve with vodka if there is a smidgen of water in glass .

 

I only want to liquefy 1 mg an take the 5 mg dry. I want to learn how to use the concept Builder uses of drawing the amount you need daily from a batch. But only 1 mg. How do I do it? Please::: Easy Simple Directions. I have a mental block about this.  Could never wrap my head around this concept before.

 

 

[[Ho...]]

I'm putting this out here for the U.S. peeps who want to help with Benzo Advocacy. Please PM me with any questions!

 

Hello beloved benzo friends! As you know, World Benzo Awareness Day is fast approaching (7/11) and I have taken on a position as a director at the Benzodiazepine Information Coalition. BIC and W-BAD are collaborating on an initiative to get patients to fill out FDA Medwatch reports regarding how they were harmed by benzos or Z drugs. The form is an easy online submission and can be accessed here:

 

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=reporting.home

 

For more background on the initiative and detailed instructions on filling out the form:

 

https://www.benzoinfo.com/fda-report

 

Once you have completed the form you will receive an email confirmation from Medwatch. Please forward the email to fda@benzoinfo.com by 7/11 and you will be entered into a prize drawing for an Amazon gift card valued up to 100$. Your email address and info are confidential and will only be used for purpose of counting submissions and the prize drawing. Thanks in advance for your help!

[[Va...]]

HELP::

 

This old way of daily preparation of vodka/ water solution is getting old. Last night I got so frustrated with a huge air bubble, I thru the syringe across the room and screamed. Also sometimes the valium doesn't dissolve with vodka if there is a smidgen of water in glass .

 

I only want to liquefy 1 mg an take the 5 mg dry. I want to learn how to use the concept Builder uses of drawing the amount you need daily from a batch. But only 1 mg. How do I do it? Please::: Easy Simple Directions. I have a mental block about this.  Could never wrap my head around this concept before.

 

 

This is how I do it. I liquefy five 2mg pills by using 20ml of PG (or vodka) and 80ml of water. That makes a 1mg of Valium per each 10ml of solution so a 10:1 ratio. To reduce I use a 10ml and 1ml syringe. So if I was reducing by 1mg as you want to do, I would pull up to the 9 on the 10ml syringe and then pull up to the 1,2,3 etc. depending on how much you want to reduce each day on the 1ml syringe. If you want to reduce by .01, you pull to the 1 on the 1ml syringe the first day, then 2 the second day, etc.  When you have taken out 1ml, you go down tot he 8 mark on the 10ml syringe and do the same thing until you have removed 10ml which would be 1mg. You take the rest of your dose in dry pills. I hope that makes sense to you.  --V

[[bu...]]

HELP::

 

This old way of daily preparation of vodka/ water solution is getting old. Last night I got so frustrated with a huge air bubble, I thru the syringe across the room and screamed. Also sometimes the valium doesn't dissolve with vodka if there is a smidgen of water in glass .

 

I only want to liquefy 1 mg an take the 5 mg dry. I want to learn how to use the concept Builder uses of drawing the amount you need daily from a batch. But only 1 mg. How do I do it? Please::: Easy Simple Directions. I have a mental block about this.  Could never wrap my head around this concept before.

 

 

 

Dissolve 10mg V in 20ml vodka, and add 80ml water.  You now have 100ml liquid V, each ml=.1mgV.

You just draw up and drink whatever dose you have scheduled for the day.

 

If you wanted to cut 10% per month, (.02mg/day)  you schedule would be:

 

5mg tablets    1mg (10ml) liquid

5mg                .98mg (9.8ml)

5mg                .96mg (9.6ml)

5mg                .94mg (9.4ml)

 

Based on that schedule, your 10mg/100ml will last 10-12 days.  When its used up, just make another batch.

 

It will be stable, no loss of potency, and can be stored at room temp.

 

EDIT:  Revised schedule to correct initial error

[[ri...]]

HELP::

 

This old way of daily preparation of vodka/ water solution is getting old. Last night I got so frustrated with a huge air bubble, I thru the syringe across the room and screamed. Also sometimes the valium doesn't dissolve with vodka if there is a smidgen of water in glass .

 

I only want to liquefy 1 mg an take the 5 mg dry. I want to learn how to use the concept Builder uses of drawing the amount you need daily from a batch. But only 1 mg. How do I do it? Please::: Easy Simple Directions. I have a mental block about this.  Could never wrap my head around this concept before.

 

 

 

Dissolve 10mg V in 20ml vodka, and add 80ml water.  You now have 100ml liquid V, each ml=.1mgV.

You just draw up and drink whatever dose you have scheduled for the day.

 

If you wanted to cut 10% per month, (.02mg/day)  you schedule would be:

 

5mg tablets    1mg (10ml) liquid

5mg                .998mg (9.98ml)

5mg                .996mg (9.96ml)

5mg                .994mg (9.94ml)

 

Based on that schedule, your 10mg/100ml will last 10-12 days.  When its used up, just make another batch.

 

It will be stable, no loss of potency, and can be stored at room temp.

 

 

Hi all

 

I am seeing my psych doc next week and still trying to fix some GI problems and after that I am back on the taper train.  After reading about 200 pages from this group I think this is the way I want to go about it. I have no clue what the psych is going to say or recommend but I am going there with an open mind, well only if he agrees to help me taper. I am going to try to stick to ativan without crossing over, why? because I'm scared to death of another benzo. I'm also on some supplements, a ppi and an antibiotic for my GI issues. I think I will stay on them while tapering too or maybe wait til my antibiotics are done and then taper. Either way, cutting and holding with a scale  sucked ass and right now I am confused as hell as to how to do this method but I'm sure If I buy the syringe and set up my lab and perform my science experiment it will make sense. If not I hope I can lean on you guys for some help.

[[Ki...]]

Hopefully it will go ok for you. If you can taper off of your original benzo it is better in that you already know how it affects you, and you dont have that extra time needed to cross over to another drug. Fingers crossed it works out for you!

[[Ki...]]

STUPID QUESTION TIME yeah its been a few weeks since I asked one sooo..

My new generic valium weighs approx 180 for a 5 mg pill. My old ones were around 160. Right now I am at around 5.7 mg, at .182 g. I was planning on switching to the new brand at 5 mg since thats about where I will run out of the old one. Question is- now that Im going back "up" to 180 instead of at 160 due to more filler in each pill, when I write it out by weight it LOOKS like it will take me a few more months to finish. My benzo brain understands its still 5 mg even though it weighs different but I do my taper by weight since this big dummy can understand that. How am I going to go from 160 g to 180g and it not take longer, since I cut .001 off every other night?

Signed- duuuuuh

[[bu...]]

STUPID QUESTION TIME yeah its been a few weeks since I asked one sooo..

My new generic valium weighs approx 180 for a 5 mg pill. My old ones were around 160. Right now I am at around 5.7 mg, at .182 g. I was planning on switching to the new brand at 5 mg since thats about where I will run out of the old one. Question is- now that Im going back "up" to 180 instead of at 160 due to more filler in each pill, when I write it out by weight it LOOKS like it will take me a few more months to finish. My benzo brain understands its still 5 mg even though it weighs different but I do my taper by weight since this big dummy can understand that. How am I going to go from 160 g to 180g and it not take longer, since I cut .001 off every other night?

Signed- duuuuuh

 

You continue to reduce the weight by the same percentage.  If you are reducing a .160g tablet by .001g/day, that's .6% reduction.

 

If you reduce your .180g tablets by .6%, it would be approx .0011 g.  (probably not enough difference to worry about!)

 

 

[[Ki...]]

AH that makes sense. Since my scale is not that accurate I will probably just see how it goes figuring it out by total- Im reducing 12 times a month right now, so maybe I will just try cutting around 16 times a month and see how that goes. Looks like that will put me at a similar rate. Thanks Builder. I knew it was a stupid question. Cant wait for LMT time

[[Ma...]]

THAN YOU. VALLEY AND BUILDER. I think I get it. 

Now. Will I have any sx for this change?

[[Va...]]

THAN YOU. VALLEY AND BUILDER. I think I get it. 

Now. Will I have any sx for this change?

If you're using liquid already I doubt you'll experience any additional sxs.  --V

[[bu...]]

THAN YOU. VALLEY AND BUILDER. I think I get it. 

Now. Will I have any sx for this change?

 

Why would you have any change.  You're going to be taking the same amount of medicine.  You're just changing the way you measure it out.

 

Instead of starting out with 10ml, removing .2ml and drinking the remaining 9.8, your just going to draw the 9.8 and drink it.

[[Ed...]]

Hi.  How do you carry around liquid doses when you won't be at home where the syringes are?

 

I've been using tupperware "shot glasses" with a plastic top.

 

 

[[...]]

I'm planning to start MT whenever I stabilize here. Do you all really find that you can catch your sxs early before they become bad???  I'm really worried about this, esp given the long lag time. I'm scared of the cuts catching up. I'm going to start really really slow but I'd appreciate any advice on how to catch sxs early enough that they stay mild. I have had times in my taper, recently even, when I feel pretty good overall so I know it's possible. But when I get slammed w/ sxs, I don't recover in a couple wks as some others do. Please help calm my fears about this. Thank you!!

[[Va...]]

I'm planning to start MT whenever I stabilize here. Do you all really find that you can catch your sxs early before they become bad???  I'm really worried about this, esp given the long lag time. I'm scared of the cuts catching up. I'm going to start really really slow but I'd appreciate any advice on how to catch sxs early enough that they stay mild. I have had times in my taper, recently even, when I feel pretty good overall so I know it's possible. But when I get slammed w/ sxs, I don't recover in a couple wks as some others do. Please help calm my fears about this. Thank you!!

Hi libr. I know I've already responded to your question but the way I figured out my cut rate was by starting small and cutting to my lag day which is 10 days. I then held for 10-20 days and started again. Once I figured out a monthly cut rate I haven't had any major issues. If sxs get more severe you can quickly correct it by updosing to 5 days prior and reducing the cut rate (just an example as you have to figure out what works best for you).  Some are also using a 10 day cut and then hold taper where they cut for 10 days and hold the rest of the month and seem to be doing well. There are many ways to do this. I believe once you figure out what works for you, you'll do great. 

[[an...]]

Hi.  How do you carry around liquid doses when you won't be at home where the syringes are?

 

I've been using tupperware "shot glasses" with a plastic top.

 

The tupperware will work well as long as the lids fit properly.  I use glass jars with tight fitting lids so there is no leaking in my purse.  I carry a syringe with me.

 

Anne

[[ka...]]

Hi.  How do you carry around liquid doses when you won't be at home where the syringes are?

 

I've been using tupperware "shot glasses" with a plastic top.

 

The tupperware will work well as long as the lids fit properly.  I use glass jars with tight fitting lids so there is no leaking in my purse.  I carry a syringe with me.

 

Anne

I also obtained a small rx bottle from pharmacy and transfer my liquid med to it to carry around with my syringe. because of its size and shape it will fit into a snack ziplock bag with syringe for me to keep together.

[[ga...]]

Hi.  How do you carry around liquid doses when you won't be at home where the syringes are?

 

I've been using tupperware "shot glasses" with a plastic top.

 

When I had very small doses, I measured them into these. They would fit in your pocket. Notice this says it has a PolyCone lined cap. This is important for not leaking. (Some similar bottles don't have this.)

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ABY4E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Pain to clean, though. Eventually needed a teeny, tiny bottle brush when shaking with soapy water no longer worked.

 

Women have the advantage of purses. I have larger doses now and put them in empty amber vitamin bottles with tight lids that fit in my purse.

 

It's also important to remember not to leave your dose in a very hot or very cold car as the medicine may degrade.