Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Thanks gard. I'm losing hope. I'm so sick of suffering daily. It doesn't seem to matter what I do 😪

 

I don't remember, but have you been on the Long Hold thread? There are lots of people there who are really struggling and helping each other along. Some are still holding. Some have updosed. Some have done long hold (6 months for me), have stabilized, and are starting to make very slow cuts again.

 

I know what you mean. So sick of suffering and losing hope. I have felt like that many times.

[[Da...]]

I'm not on there - I haven't done a really long hold. I've held for a month a few times and since switching to liquid I've held a week or two here and there.

[[ga...]]

I'm not on there - I haven't done a really long hold. I've held for a month a few times and since switching to liquid I've held a week or two here and there.

 

You can still come! Some people are there to ask questions. Some people consider a month to be a long hold. The general idea, though, is it takes 4 months or more to see significant improvement. Some people have also discussed updosing to get relief and then holding in place of just holding. The idea with that is you would need a shorter hold because you would stabilize faster. There are people on the thread who now are doing taper-short hold-taper-short hold. We're a mixed bunch. What we have in common is we do symptoms-based tapers, incorporating holds, updosing, whatever it takes to reduce suffering and remain functional while we taper. Most everybody who shows up there is in a bad place and trying to figure out what to do because the taper is destroying them. That's where I was.

[[Ul...]]

Hey guys. I'm holding now for a week and seem to get worse. My trend. I haven't decreased much lately .04mg in 2-3 weeks. But I can't seem to level off. I'm going to decrease my daily cuts to .002mg once I level off but I'm feeling like a did a big dry cut.

 

Should I updose or keep holding where I am? I'd really hate to go back up but I feel horrific. I'm not even sure an updose would help but I'm honestly losing hope that I can even dlmt.

 

Holy cow, Dad!! I'm amazed by your ability to cut so fast. You started at 4.5mg of K back in July and are now at .774mg. I could only do that in my dreams since I'm painfully slow due to high sensitivity. I've been on the K for 23 yrs now. Was on 5-6mg for most of it and 8mg for a big chunk of it. Having a really rough time. I just wonder if your fast journey maybe caught up with you a bit. Everybody is different, but maybe holding for a while until sx subside may be a good idea. Of course, others who have updosed would say to updose until stable and then move on. I just know that my body wouldn't like the up and down of it all. Either way, it'll be great when you're off this stuff. You're close!! Just remember that the goal is to get off this stuff while feeling good rather than getting off followed by a long period of recovery post jump.

 

Hang tight!

 

Jeff

[[Ki...]]

Sometimes your brain can tolerate big cuts ( thats a relative term I know but 1/2 a mg V is pretty much all most folks can take) and then sometimes it will catch up to you all at once. I have seen a lot of that on here. I actually had someone tell me right after I crossed over to " go ahead and cut a mg off see how you do most people do fine"... uh- huh. Not from what I have seen. I have no idea if thats whats happening but if it is, it will take time for a frazzled CNS to heal up no matter what you do. I took a big hit last month by accident after a very slow and regulated microtaper and it hit me like a ton of bricks- like a milder version of tolerance all over again. Im just now feeling better. Our brains are already fragile and sometimes we just go too fast for healing to keep up. Whatever you decide, updose or hold, good luck to you. There are a lot of very helpful people on here to help you through this!

[[po...]]

I'm going to post this on the daily micro taper thread too so sorry if you read this twice. 

 

Builder you helped a little a few weeks ago but I need more clarification so if you see this please lend your awesome math brain and knowledge about liquid diazepam

 

I am on Liquid Diazepam Intensol 5mg per 1ml (I was squirting it undiluted directly into my mouth but changed this week to mixing it with a little bit of water before swallowing)

 

I was doing great after reinstating making .02 cuts every 5-10 days with very mild anxiety as only symptom.  Then did a drop of .07 and immediately felt REALLY bad 2 days later.  So I up dosed to previous dose.  Things continued to worsen.  After 22 days I up dosed back to where I started which was a 1/2mg up dose to 5mg.  Ive been here 4 days and not feeling ANY better maybe a little worse.  Can someone see what Im doing wrong or did wrong?

 

1.  If i was stable at this dose before why am I not stabilizing now?  Did I fry myself?

 

2.  Does anyone have experience doing a taper with diazepam Intensol?

 

3.  Builder you once said this was not good for tapering and the 1:1 solution would be better.  Do you think I should ask to switch or do you think Im ok sticking with this one?

 

4.  Im holding now so does it matter that I'm just mixing my dose with an unmeasured small amount of water each time?

 

5.  Builder again   You was told me figuring the math isn't that hard but for me right now it is VERY hard.  It is taking everything I have to hit the right keys when I type.  My comprehension ability is shot so please forgive me for asking again.

 

...if I'm at 5mg intensol 5mg to 1 ml  how would I lower by .02 every 5 days?  What would I mix?  My prescription is for a 30ml bottle only and I don't want to make a big batch starting out so how would I do it everyday?  would it be 49ml water + 1ml intensol?

 

so 50ml  then 5 days later

    48ml  then 5 days later

    46ml and so on?

 

This question is for builder or ANYONE who is tapering with liquid diazepam intensol

 

Please help!  My brain is mush.  Sorry for all the questions in one post!

 

[[jr...]]

5mg (1ml) / 49ml h2o = .1mg per ml. If you want to reduce .02 every 5 days that would be 49.98ml and then 49.96ml and so on. that is less than 1% a month. If you reduce .02  every day , that is slightly over 1%. To reduce 10% a month you would need to take .16 less each day. Ex: day 1= 50ml

                    day 2= 49.84

                    day 3 = 49.68 and so on.

[[bu...]]

I'm going to post this on the daily micro taper thread too so sorry if you read this twice. 

 

Builder you helped a little a few weeks ago but I need more clarification so if you see this please lend your awesome math brain and knowledge about liquid diazepam

 

I am on Liquid Diazepam Intensol 5mg per 1ml (I was squirting it undiluted directly into my mouth but changed this week to mixing it with a little bit of water before swallowing)

 

I was doing great after reinstating making .02 cuts every 5-10 days with very mild anxiety as only symptom.  Then did a drop of .07 and immediately felt REALLY bad 2 days later.  So I up dosed to previous dose.  Things continued to worsen.  After 22 days I up dosed back to where I started which was a 1/2mg up dose to 5mg.  Ive been here 4 days and not feeling ANY better maybe a little worse.  Can someone see what Im doing wrong or did wrong?

 

1.  If i was stable at this dose before why am I not stabilizing now?  Did I fry myself?

 

2.  Does anyone have experience doing a taper with diazepam Intensol?

 

3.  Builder you once said this was not good for tapering and the 1:1 solution would be better.  Do you think I should ask to switch or do you think Im ok sticking with this one?

 

4.  Im holding now so does it matter that I'm just mixing my dose with an unmeasured small amount of water each time?

 

5.  Builder again   You was told me figuring the math isn't that hard but for me right now it is VERY hard.  It is taking everything I have to hit the right keys when I type.  My comprehension ability is shot so please forgive me for asking again.

 

...if I'm at 5mg intensol 5mg to 1 ml  how would I lower by .02 every 5 days?  What would I mix?  My prescription is for a 30ml bottle only and I don't want to make a big batch starting out so how would I do it everyday?  would it be 49ml water + 1ml intensol?

 

so 50ml  then 5 days later

    48ml  then 5 days later

    46ml and so on?

 

This question is for builder or ANYONE who is tapering with liquid diazepam intensol

 

Please help!  My brain is mush.  Sorry for all the questions in one post!

 

One more time...

 

 

Mix 1ml of your 5mg=1ml Rx liquid with 49ml water.

 

Now you have 50ml liquid, each ml contains .1mg V (.1mg=1ml)

 

5mg    50ml

4.98mg    49.8ml

4.96mg    49.6ml

4.94mg    49.4ml

 

 

[[po...]]

Im getting more stable from my updose I think.  So Im trying get a plan laid out for my Dr. because I know he's going to be upset I updosed and look at me like I'm an "addict"

 

Im at 5mg/1mL liquid diazepam right now.

If I want to reduce .5 mg spread out over 50 days (so 10% reduction over 50 days) is that reasonable or ridiculously slow?  So far I've learned the hard way I'm extremely sensitive to these cuts.  I have not done a true daily micro taper as of yet.  Just used my syringe and would lower .02ml directly from undiluted solution and wait a few days then do it again and again.

 

I guess where I get confused is I was cutting from the undiluted concentrate at .02 increments on 1 ml syringe.  My confusion is the mg to ml numbers.  How do I get down to 4.5mg over 50 days with daily reductions?  How do I make that small of a measurement?

 

What is a safe conservative rate at 5mg v?

[[bu...]]

Im getting more stable from my updose I think.  So Im trying get a plan laid out for my Dr. because I know he's going to be upset I updosed and look at me like I'm an "addict"

 

Im at 5mg/1mL liquid diazepam right now.

If I want to reduce .5 mg spread out over 50 days (so 10% reduction over 50 days)1)  is that reasonable or ridiculously slow? 

 

So far I've learned the hard way I'm extremely sensitive to these cuts.  I have not done a true daily micro taper as of yet.

  Just used my syringe and would lower .02ml directly from undiluted solution and wait a few days then do it again and again.

 

2) I guess where I get confused is I was cutting from the undiluted concentrate at .02 increments on 1 ml syringe.  My confusion is the mg to ml numbers. 

 

3) How do I get down to 4.5mg over 50 days with daily reductions?  4) How do I make that small of a measurement?

 

What is a safe conservative rate at 5mg v?

 

1) IMO, it's ridiculously slow.  But that's OK.

 

2)  Thats .02ml of your Intensol is .1mg (5mg=1ml, so .02ml X5=.1mg)

 

3)  .5mg cut/50 days = .01mgs cut per day.

 

4)  By diluting your Intensol liquid.  If you mix 1ml Intensol and 49ml water, you now have a solution where .1mg=1ml.  So your .01mg daily cut would be .1 (1/10th) ml.  Very easy to read with a 1ml syringe.

 

Note: As I have told you before, you can NOT do this with your Intensol liquid unless you dilute it.

[[po...]]

Builder

Your #2 point is where all my confusion was!  I think I get it now!  I want to hug you!  You probably just want to pat me on the head and give me a math book 

When you were telling me to lower by .02 of the diluted solution a day I was thinking that would be the same as just lowering my intensol straight on the syringe.  Thats why I couldn't wrap my head around not being killed by going that fast.  I feel so dumb now.

 

Thank you

[[jr...]]

I want to wish all my BBs a very Happy Memorial Day. And if you served or are serving now, Thank You very much.

[[ga...]]

I want to wish all my BBs a very Happy Memorial Day. And if you served or are serving now, Thank You very much.

:thumbsup:

[[po...]]

Im not sure if this is where I should post this question.

 

I have my Daily Liquid Micro Taper planned out.  I ordered some supplies. 

 

HOWEVER, After a bad cut at the end of April with symptoms worsening I updosed 8 days ago from 4.5 V to 5mg V.  Thats where I was when I reinstated and felt good.  So Day 8 after updose and still symptomatic...inner tremors, high anxiety throughout day, just general sense of dread and loud tinnitus.  Day 6 I was good but now back to more anxiety.

 

My QUESTION for all you micro taperers...Should I be more stable than this before I begin the taper?  Or should I just begin when I get my supplies?  I know no one can give me an answer for certain.  Am I panicking thinking this up dose won't work because its only day 8 or should it have worked by now?  I just want to know how a lot of you felt when you began your taper and if you think I should wait a little more.

Thank you

[[Ul...]]

Im not sure if this is where I should post this question.

 

I have my Daily Liquid Micro Taper planned out.  I ordered some supplies. 

 

HOWEVER, After a bad cut at the end of April with symptoms worsening I updosed 8 days ago from 4.5 V to 5mg V.  Thats where I was when I reinstated and felt good.  So Day 8 after updose and still symptomatic...inner tremors, high anxiety throughout day, just general sense of dread and loud tinnitus.  Day 6 I was good but now back to more anxiety.

 

My QUESTION for all you micro taperers...Should I be more stable than this before I begin the taper?  Or should I just begin when I get my supplies?  I know no one can give me an answer for certain.  Am I panicking thinking this up dose won't work because its only day 8 or should it have worked by now?  I just want to know how a lot of you felt when you began your taper and if you think I should wait a little more.

Thank you

 

Personally, I'd say to stabilize and feel better before continuing. And I'd say that applies at any point along the journey. I'm still waiting for that stabilization

 

Jeff

[[po...]]

Im getting more stable from my updose I think.  So Im trying get a plan laid out for my Dr. because I know he's going to be upset I updosed and look at me like I'm an "addict"

 

Im at 5mg/1mL liquid diazepam right now.

If I want to reduce .5 mg spread out over 50 days (so 10% reduction over 50 days)1)  is that reasonable or ridiculously slow? 

 

So far I've learned the hard way I'm extremely sensitive to these cuts.  I have not done a true daily micro taper as of yet.

  Just used my syringe and would lower .02ml directly from undiluted solution and wait a few days then do it again and again.

 

2) I guess where I get confused is I was cutting from the undiluted concentrate at .02 increments on 1 ml syringe.  My confusion is the mg to ml numbers. 

 

3) How do I get down to 4.5mg over 50 days with daily reductions?  4) How do I make that small of a measurement?

 

What is a safe conservative rate at 5mg v?

 

1) IMO, it's ridiculously slow.  But that's OK.

 

2)  Thats .02ml of your Intensol is .1mg (5mg=1ml, so .02ml X5=.1mg)

 

3)  .5mg cut/50 days = .01mgs cut per day.

 

4)  By diluting your Intensol liquid.  If you mix 1ml Intensol and 49ml water, you now have a solution where .1mg=1ml.  So your .01mg daily cut would be .1 (1/10th) ml.  Very easy to read with a 1ml syringe.

 

Note: As I have told you before, you can NOT do this with your Intensol liquid unless you dilute it.

 

BUILDER...I changed my plan I think

 

What would my spreadsheet look like if I wanted to reduce .5mg from 5mg in one month? I want to go at the same rate you went at so having my 5mg/1ml solution what would my numbers look like for the first 10 days?

 

And is this a safe pace?

 

Thank you and I'm sorry Im so mathematically challenged!!  Im so nervous.

[[ga...]]

Im not sure if this is where I should post this question.

 

I have my Daily Liquid Micro Taper planned out.  I ordered some supplies. 

 

HOWEVER, After a bad cut at the end of April with symptoms worsening I updosed 8 days ago from 4.5 V to 5mg V.  Thats where I was when I reinstated and felt good.  So Day 8 after updose and still symptomatic...inner tremors, high anxiety throughout day, just general sense of dread and loud tinnitus.  Day 6 I was good but now back to more anxiety.

 

My QUESTION for all you micro taperers...Should I be more stable than this before I begin the taper?  Or should I just begin when I get my supplies?  I know no one can give me an answer for certain.  Am I panicking thinking this up dose won't work because its only day 8 or should it have worked by now?  I just want to know how a lot of you felt when you began your taper and if you think I should wait a little more.

Thank you

 

Personally, I'd say to stabilize and feel better before continuing. And I'd say that applies at any point along the journey. I'm still waiting for that stabilization

 

Jeff

 

:thumbsup:

Hoping that day comes for you soon, Jeff.

[[bu...]]

Im getting more stable from my updose I think.  So Im trying get a plan laid out for my Dr. because I know he's going to be upset I updosed and look at me like I'm an "addict"

 

Im at 5mg/1mL liquid diazepam right now.

If I want to reduce .5 mg spread out over 50 days (so 10% reduction over 50 days)1)  is that reasonable or ridiculously slow? 

 

So far I've learned the hard way I'm extremely sensitive to these cuts.  I have not done a true daily micro taper as of yet.

  Just used my syringe and would lower .02ml directly from undiluted solution and wait a few days then do it again and again.

 

2) I guess where I get confused is I was cutting from the undiluted concentrate at .02 increments on 1 ml syringe.  My confusion is the mg to ml numbers. 

 

3) How do I get down to 4.5mg over 50 days with daily reductions?  4) How do I make that small of a measurement?

 

What is a safe conservative rate at 5mg v?

 

1) IMO, it's ridiculously slow.  But that's OK.

 

2)  Thats .02ml of your Intensol is .1mg (5mg=1ml, so .02ml X5=.1mg)

 

3)  .5mg cut/50 days = .01mgs cut per day.

 

4)  By diluting your Intensol liquid.  If you mix 1ml Intensol and 49ml water, you now have a solution where .1mg=1ml.  So your .01mg daily cut would be .1 (1/10th) ml.  Very easy to read with a 1ml syringe.

 

Note: As I have told you before, you can NOT do this with your Intensol liquid unless you dilute it.

 

BUILDER...I changed my plan I think

 

What would my spreadsheet look like if I wanted to reduce .5mg from 5mg in one month? I want to go at the same rate you went at so having my 5mg/1ml solution what would my numbers look like for the first 10 days?

 

And is this a safe pace?

 

Thank you and I'm sorry Im so mathematically challenged!!  Im so nervous.

 

.5mg/30 days =.017mg/day

 

5mg    50ml

4.983mg  49.83ml

4.966mg  49.66ml

4.949mg  49.49ml

etc...

 

Just keep subtracting .017mg (.17ml) from the last days dose.

 

BTW, it would be simpler to do .02mg/day instead of .017mg.  That would be .5mg in 25 days, instead of .5mg in 30 days.

 

 

Just to be clear, you can NOT use your full strength intensol.  To follow this schedule, you MUST dilute it 49:1 with water.

 

[[po...]]

Builder

So If i did .02mg daily over 25 days it would be much less potent than when I was subtracting .02ml from the concentrate every once in awhile correct?

Oh god! why am I so confused

So what would my spreadsheet look like if I did .02 over 25 days to make it more easy to read?

 

Im crying now.  Im so sorry.  Please have patience with me.

 

[[po...]]

Builder

 

Do I have it?

 

4.98mg  49.8

4.96mg  49.6ml

4.94mg  49.4ml

4.92mg  49.2ml

4.90mg  49.0ml

4.88mg  48.8ml

 

So each .02 drop is no where near as potent as dropping .02 on my 1ml syringe with the direct concentrate correct?

[[bu...]]

Builder

So If i did .02mg daily over 25 days it would be much less potent than when I was subtracting .02ml from the concentrate every once in awhile correct?

Oh god! why am I so confused

So what would my spreadsheet look like if I did .02 over 25 days to make it more easy to read?

 

Im crying now.  Im so sorry.  Please have patience with me.

 

One more time...if you reduce .02ml of full strength liquid that's a .1mg cut

 

If you reduce .02ml of the 49:1 diluted liquid, that's only a.02mg cut.

 

To do the .02mg/day (.5mg/25 days)  you just subract .02mg (.2ml) from the previous days dose:

 

5mg    50ml

4.98mg    49.8ml

4.96mg    49.6ml

4.94mg    49.4ml

etc....

 

 

I gave you that schedule a few days ago.

 

 

[[po...]]

 

I gave you that schedule a few days ago.

 

Builder, I know you gave it to me before and Im so sorry I keep asking you the same thing over and over.  I was confused about the potency and now you have explained that it is no where near as potent as when I was cutting .02 directly from the solution.

All I can say is I'm sorry and thank you.  Hopefully you won't hear from me again for a few months when I check in to tell you I'm doing great.

 

 

[[bu...]]

Builder

 

Do I have it?

 

4.98mg  49.8

4.96mg  49.6ml

4.94mg  49.4ml

4.92mg  49.2ml

4.90mg  49.0ml

4.88mg  48.8ml

 

Correct!

 

So each .02 drop is no where near as potent as dropping .02 on my 1ml syringe with the direct concentrate correct?

 

Correct. A .02 cut of full strength is 50X more potent than the diluted liquid.  That's why you must dilute!!!

[[bu...]]

 

 

Builder, I know you gave it to me before and Im so sorry I keep asking you the same thing over and over.  I was confused about the potency and now you have explained that it is no where near as potent as when I was cutting .02 directly from the solution.

All I can say is I'm sorry and thank you.  Hopefully you won't hear from me again for a few months when I check in to tell you I'm doing great.

 

 

You can ask me for more info ANYTIME! 

[[ga...]]

I am ready to start a daily liquid micro taper of valium.  I tapered down really quickly due to a chemical black depression brought on when I crossed from Ativan to Valium.  I'm now down to 5 mg Valium.  Starting late Feb when I was at 13 mg Valium, I tapered 1 mg per week until I hit the wall at 5 mg.  I have been holding for about 6 weeks & will do so a bit longer.  When I resume the taper, what is a good percentage taper for being at this level?

 

I stupidly tried to taper from Cymbalta while holding the valium taper and that turned out to be REAL ugly.  I made 2 10% Cymbalta cuts from 60 mg down to 54 mg and then down to 48 mg before I realized what a huge mistake it is to taper an AD while in the throes of benzo taper and withdrawal.  So, I'm holding the Cymbalta taper until I'm off of the valium and stable enough to resume the Cymbalta taper.  Meanwhile, I need to figure out how to do the DLMT of valium.  I've no experience with it and have done only dry cut up to this point.  Any advice is appreciated!