Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

Valley- I guess you're MTing now so this may not apply... But you said if you had a bad cut again, you would updose instead of long hold- how long do think you would wait before updosing?

Hi libr. I would updose and hold. I think the updose would shorten the hold time considerably. I would updose if sxs are escalating beyond 10 days.  --V

 

Thanks for that, V. I will keep that in mind as I cut.

[[po...]]

OK, please forgive me if I've asked this before.  I made a small but obviously too big of a cut 4 weeks ago.  As soon as I felt symptoms I up dosed a little.  Symptoms improved but were still scary so I up dosed .02 more and have been holding there for 11 days.

When I began my taper with liquid diazepam  I would cut .02 and hold for 5-7 days and then cut .02 again and hold.  Im new to this so please forgive my confusion and lack of understanding.

 

MY QUESTION to all of you doing the micro taper...Do you continue to cut even when you have symptoms like mine or should I hold a little more like a week?

 

My symptoms :

-muscle twitches on and off

-shakes

-anxiety BAD on and off

-heart rate BAD on and off

-feeling very confused and memory bad

-just an over all feeling of hopelessness

(I actually had good day Friday but now its up again)

 

These are all livable compared to when I experienced acute in February but Im terrified I will end up back in acute which is why Im standing still not knowing what to do.

 

So Im looking for those of you who are in the middle of this or have made it through...Is this the nature of the taper and should I continue slowly down OR wait another week to see if things settle down?

 

[[Va...]]

OK, please forgive me if I've asked this before.  I made a small but obviously too big of a cut 4 weeks ago.  As soon as I felt symptoms I up dosed a little.  Symptoms improved but were still scary so I up dosed .02 more and have been holding there for 11 days.

When I began my taper with liquid diazepam  I would cut .02 and hold for 5-7 days and then cut .02 again and hold.  Im new to this so please forgive my confusion and lack of understanding.

 

MY QUESTION to all of you doing the micro taper...Do you continue to cut even when you have symptoms like mine or should I hold a little more like a week?

 

My symptoms :

-muscle twitches on and off

-shakes

-anxiety BAD on and off

-heart rate BAD on and off

-feeling very confused and memory bad

-just an over all feeling of hopelessness

(I actually had good day Friday but now its up again)

 

These are all livable compared to when I experienced acute in February but Im terrified I will end up back in acute which is why Im standing still not knowing what to do.

 

So Im looking for those of you who are in the middle of this or have made it through...Is this the nature of the taper and should I continue slowly down OR wait another week to see if things settle down?

I hold until sxs are either gone or,very minimal.  --V

[[...]]

Valley- I guess you're MTing now so this may not apply... But you said if you had a bad cut again, you would updose instead of long hold- how long do think you would wait before updosing?

Hi libr. I would updose and hold. I think the updose would shorten the hold time considerably. I would updose if sxs are escalating beyond 10 days.  --V

 

Thanks for that, V. I will keep that in mind as I cut.

 

Yes, thanks Vally Um.  I should have updosed sooner.  I waited 6 wks and finally updosed and now I feel good again!  Next time, 10 days max!

How long now to wait to restart tapering? 

[[po...]]

libr and valley

Its been over 10 days for my hold and it seems to be getting worse.  do you think updosing would be a good idea for me as well?  This all happened as a result of too big of a cut.  I up dosed .05 at first and then after a week I updated .02 more.  Its been 12 days since the .02 updose but 28 days from the .05 updose.  The anxiety and out of my head feeling is almost unbearable.  How could one .07 cut do this?

Please let me know what you think you would do.

Thank you

This is a never-ending nightmare.

[[Va...]]

Valley- I guess you're MTing now so this may not apply... But you said if you had a bad cut again, you would updose instead of long hold- how long do think you would wait before updosing?

Hi libr. I would updose and hold. I think the updose would shorten the hold time considerably. I would updose if sxs are escalating beyond 10 days.  --V

 

Thanks for that, V. I will keep that in mind as I cut.

 

Yes, thanks Vally Um.  I should have updosed sooner.  I waited 6 wks and finally updosed and now I feel good again!  Next time, 10 days max!

How long now to wait to restart tapering?

I'd start tapering when you feel you're ready. If you feel good, you could try a small cut and see what happens.  --V

[[Va...]]

libr and valley

Its been over 10 days for my hold and it seems to be getting worse.  do you think updosing would be a good idea for me as well?  This all happened as a result of too big of a cut.  I up dosed .05 at first and then after a week I updated .02 more.  Its been 12 days since the .02 updose but 28 days from the .05 updose.  The anxiety and out of my head feeling is almost unbearable.  How could one .07 cut do this?

Please let me know what you think you would do.

Thank you

This is a never-ending nightmare.

I can tell you sxs got worse in my long hold before they got better. Maybe if you updose slightly it will get you stable more quickly. It's a tough call but if sxs are unbearable, I'd do what I could to get them under control asap.  --V

[[sw...]]

libr and valley

Its been over 10 days for my hold and it seems to be getting worse.  do you think updosing would be a good idea for me as well?  This all happened as a result of too big of a cut.  I up dosed .05 at first and then after a week I updated .02 more.  Its been 12 days since the .02 updose but 28 days from the .05 updose.  The anxiety and out of my head feeling is almost unbearable.  How could one .07 cut do this?

Please let me know what you think you would do.

Thank you

This is a never-ending nightmare.

I can tell you sxs got worse in my long hold before they got better. Maybe if you updose slightly it will get you stable more quickly. It's a tough call but if sxs are unbearable, I'd do what I could to get them under control asap.  --V

Valley um. You are an inspiration to the rest of us. Keep telling us we will get there. Thx swammi01

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Pooky- your updose seems quite small- maybe that's why it isn't helping? I think updoses have to be big enough to work. Or maybe you need more time?  Last yr I up dosed 5% once and it still took like 3 wks to feel stable. This time I updosed 11% and it took about a week to feel better.  I now agree w/ all the buddies who say keep sxs to a minimum and if you cut too much, get your sxs under control ASAP. Easier said than done though...

I know we all want to updose by as little as possible And it's hard to decide what to go up to.

[[Va...]]

libr and valley

Its been over 10 days for my hold and it seems to be getting worse.  do you think updosing would be a good idea for me as well?  This all happened as a result of too big of a cut.  I up dosed .05 at first and then after a week I updated .02 more.  Its been 12 days since the .02 updose but 28 days from the .05 updose.  The anxiety and out of my head feeling is almost unbearable.  How could one .07 cut do this?

Please let me know what you think you would do.

Thank you

This is a never-ending nightmare.

I can tell you sxs got worse in my long hold before they got better. Maybe if you updose slightly it will get you stable more quickly. It's a tough call but if sxs are unbearable, I'd do what I could to get them under control asap.  --V

Valley um. You are an inspiration to the rest of us. Keep telling us we will get there. Thx swammi01

Thanks swammi! We will all definitely get there. 

[[po...]]

libr

Thanks, I agree.

Last night I bumped up do 5mg again.  I updosed 1/2 mg back to where I started when reinstating.  Thats where I felt normal.  My doctor who follows Ashton Method is very against updosing but I needed to be able to function.  Right after I did itI felt like a failure.  Before this last hit I was so intent on the end goal of getting off this medicine.  I realize it will probably take a week to feel this updose.  I pray it works.  Im throwing my end goal out.  My goal now is to take as long as is needed for my body and mind to be well while I taper.  If that means taking 2 years to get off 5mg of valium then so be it.  I need to be able to be a mom to my kids.  I just don't understand how some people are able to do a daily micro taper and not have symptoms catch up to them.  I think I'm going to reduce by .02 and wait at least 10 to 14 days in-between the next .02 cut.  is that crazy?

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Pooky- you're NOT a failure for updosing. It's ok! In fact, even good for your brain/body. Too many sxs for too long = glutamate toxicity which can kill nerve cells. As others on here say, the goal shouldn't be to get off - it should be to feel well. I have to keep reminding myself of that too. Slowly tease the med out of your system and keep sxs minimum. Don't put too much stock Into what your pdoc says. Listen to your body. 0.5 mg V per month might be too aggressive at this level of V - it seems to be too fast for a lot of buddies and I've been analyzing this lately. Be kind to yourself, allow your body to recover and then move forward again. There is no award for reaching zero. And the goal is not to be off and miserable, right? The goal is to feel relatively good when you step off. I updosed back to equiv of 5mg V also. I hope you find your relief soon!

[[po...]]

Libr -thank you for that.

 

Anyone or maybe Builder - If the pharmacy I use changed the lab that makes my Liquid Diazepam from Roxanne Labs to West-Ward Labs would that cause me any problems?  That's when a lot of my symptoms showed up along with my cut.  I just want to make sure.  It's something thats been bugging me.

[[...]]

Any change in manufacturer can result in a change in potency.

Hopefully those on liquid V will have more specifics on your med.

[[po...]]

Im sorry if this is a "freakout post" but I'm freaking out.

The more I read everyones stories the more hopeless and terrified I become!  There seem to be only a few that go slow and come off without horrible symptoms all the way down and then skip severe acute.  I'm freaking out.  Do I micro taper my 5mg valium and take 1 to 2 years to do it with unknown hell or do I clench my teeth and taper faster and just go through hell anyway?  I'v been in acute from a dr telling me to taper in 4 weeks.  I only lasted 4 weeks in acute.  I can't even put into words what that was like.  When i reinstated to liquid valium it was like a breath of fresh air.  I took two months to just get down to 4.5 and hit a wall and I can't stabilize!  2 days ago I went back up to 5mg because I have a 9 yr old and 11 yr old that need me!  God I hope I stabilize from this updose so I can think clearly about my next step.  BUT what do we do??!  Where are the people that have micro tapered with manageable symptoms and then got off and were able to function?  Builder...I know you did but I can't find many others.  I pray everyday that my taper is like builder's taper.  I'm in shock from this last hit.  When the feeling you are not in your body or when the scary thoughts start entering your head and the never-ending PANIC/FEAR feelings take over how do you find light? 

[[HO...]]

That's how I feel. I can't stabilize either. I'm in hell!!

[[bu...]]

Libr -thank you for that.

 

Anyone or maybe Builder - If the pharmacy I use changed the lab that makes my Liquid Diazepam from Roxanne Labs to West-Ward Labs would that cause me any problems?  That's when a lot of my symptoms showed up along with my cut.  I just want to make sure.  It's something thats been bugging me.

 

It really is NOT a different product.  West-Ward Labs acquired Roxanne Labs, so only the packaging and brand names have changed.

 

The West Ward liquid V has the same NDC identifier (0054-3188-63) as the Roxanne identifier.  Its the same product.

[[po...]]

thanks Builder

I finally saw that too after some research.  So it is just my .07 cut that is causing all of this.  I went back to 5mg two days ago.  Hoping to stabilize. 

[[Ul...]]

Im sorry if this is a "freakout post" but I'm freaking out.

The more I read everyones stories the more hopeless and terrified I become!  There seem to be only a few that go slow and come off without horrible symptoms all the way down and then skip severe acute.  I'm freaking out.  Do I micro taper my 5mg valium and take 1 to 2 years to do it with unknown hell or do I clench my teeth and taper faster and just go through hell anyway?  I'v been in acute from a dr telling me to taper in 4 weeks.  I only lasted 4 weeks in acute.  I can't even put into words what that was like.  When i reinstated to liquid valium it was like a breath of fresh air.  I took two months to just get down to 4.5 and hit a wall and I can't stabilize!  2 days ago I went back up to 5mg because I have a 9 yr old and 11 yr old that need me!  God I hope I stabilize from this updose so I can think clearly about my next step.  BUT what do we do??!  Where are the people that have micro tapered with manageable symptoms and then got off and were able to function?  Builder...I know you did but I can't find many others.  I pray everyday that my taper is like builder's taper.  I'm in shock from this last hit.  When the feeling you are not in your body or when the scary thoughts start entering your head and the never-ending PANIC/FEAR feelings take over how do you find light?

 

From my experience, I would say this about the part above that's highlighted: They're not here. If their symptoms are good and/or they've had great experience as far as tapering and finishing via DLMT, then there's really no need for them to be involved with BB's.  In other words, consider the source and the audience when you read something here.

 

Personally, I barely cut at all due to my weird circumstances, but I'm super thankful for learning about the liquid micro taper. Without it, I would have zero hope of ever getting off this poison.

 

We'll all get through it. Listen to your body and your gut. Next!!!

 

Jeff

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Hey Pooky, Jeff is so right. I also used to hang out on the Klonipin Klub thread a lot. People started jumping off and feeling better and they started disappearing. It got so almost no one ever posted anymore because the core group had tapered off and are doing really well. They pop back on every once in awhile to let us know there is life after benzos though and that's great because of the hope they give to all of us. Many people taper and do well once they are off.

 

I'm hopeful that you will stabilize and then find a taper method that works for you so that you can stay functional. I really like the sxs based method that I first heard about from Jeff.

 

As for the sxs making you feel like you can't find the light I would suggest coping skills. If you aren't familiar with them there is a thread on the main page, I believe. When things are really bad though I find distraction is the best coping skill. Whatever works for you is what you should do.

 

Stay strong, keep posting, try to find positive threads and people. You can do this. In the scheme of things it is but a moment in time so keep on keeping on. 

 

Hugs and healing 

T

 

 

[[Ki...]]

People doing well in ANYTHING are not as likely to be posting. Its like a restaurant- they have to get 10 good comments to outweigh one bad one in the average persons mind. look at the " easy taper" thread- everyone on there is doing symptom based tapers going slow and it is a VERY positive thread. It seems like there are more people having problems but thats just because problems lead to asking for help. People having it easy are just off living their lives. Sadly its just harder for some than others and sometimes no one ever knows why- but brains do heal- its just finding the best way to allow the healing to occur thats tough. Sorry so many of us out here in BB land are having problems but we just need to keep looking for ways to cope while we heal.

[[po...]]

tnt and kitty beanbag and ultra

thank you.  you are right.  I felt good for two months and never once came on here.  I wish some neurologist would discover a way to help us.  Sorry for my freak out.  My brother just told me to read John Kabat-Zinn's Full Catastrophe Living book and start his meditations.  Once I stabilize I will begin my micro taper symptom based.

Thank you again to everyone who responded.

[[Da...]]

Hey guys. I'm holding now for a week and seem to get worse. My trend. I haven't decreased much lately .04mg in 2-3 weeks. But I can't seem to level off. I'm going to decrease my daily cuts to .002mg once I level off but I'm feeling like a did a big dry cut.

 

Should I updose or keep holding where I am? I'd really hate to go back up but I feel horrific. I'm not even sure an updose would help but I'm honestly losing hope that I can even dlmt.

[[ga...]]

I'm sorry this isn't going well for you, Dad2. I don't know anything about updosing. I have always just held. I have read some people do updose and get stable. You might try the Long Hold support group. They sometimes talk about updosing over there. I think there are people who have done it in that group. Hope things turn around for you soon.

 

Gard

[[Da...]]

Thanks gard. I'm losing hope. I'm so sick of suffering daily. It doesn't seem to matter what I do 😪