Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[bu...]]

Builder-

 

I cannot tolerate vodka... How much propylene glycol do I need and where do you get it?

 

Rach

 

2ml for each mg of V.  Available from Amazon. or some specialty food stores or pharmacies.

 

BTW, you would only need about 5ml/day of vodka.  Do you realize how little that is?

[[ga...]]

Another sleep aid that seems popular on this board is hydroxizine, its an antihistamine with some anti-anxiety properties.

 

That's interesting, Kitty. I will have to look into that. I don't like being on Q.

Gard it was really weird when I took my itchy dog to the vet and he said shes " atopy"- something about a bad allergic skin thing- he prescribed hydroxizine for her so now we both take it!

 

The itchy dog cure for insomnia!

[[Ul...]]

Kasey

Thank you for that.  I know my sig is a little confusing.  I was on clonazepam 1mg for 6 years.  I wanted to get off.  I had cut to .75 without any problem.  My n"not smart" Dr told me to just stop clon and crossover to librium and do a quick 4 week taper.  I did that and for the following 4 weeks I though I wasn't going to be able to live.  I had EVERY symptom.  the worst thing was the DP/DR i didn't recognize myself or my kids in a normal way and I had strange suicidal thoughts.  That is not me.  I found a benzo wise DR and he reinstated my at 5mg liquid diazepam.  It took about a week but felt normal again!  Over the next few months I slowly lowered to 4.5 with only a little anxiety.  then just recently I made too big of a cut.  I then went back up but I can't stabilize!  Its been 15 days and is intensifying.  I don't know what to do.  Should I update a little more of hold even longer.  Im shaking so bad right now its difficult to type.

Thank you for responding.

 

Holy moly, Pooky!! Bless your heart for surviving all this nonsense up to this point. I've been through some rocky times too, and my experience has taught me to hold when things get this nuts. Looking at your situation, I would say.... HOLD until you stabilze and then move forward!! Just FWIW.

 

Builder will be your saving grace.

 

Hang tight!

 

Jeff

 

Is there a guarantee that a hold will help you stabilize.

 

I don't think there are any guarantees in life, but I think your body communicates with you and tells you what to do. Follow your natural instinct, trust it, and take another step forward...you'll be good to go!!

 

Jeff

[[sw...]]

I have read a lot on this forum about tapering and the different methods.  Also have followed peoples results after some time with different methods.  Hands down I see more success and the least amount of symptoms when I read about daily micro tapering.

 

Im talking about Liquid Titration and Daily Micro Cutting with a Gram Scale. 

 

It seems to be the way to go.  The theory is that when you cut a very small amount each day, you give your body a chance to adjust on a daily basis, instead of sending your body and mind into shock every 2 weeks. 

 

Example:  Say you are taking a 1mg pill a day. You want to taper at a rate of 10% or 0.1 mg every 2 weeks.  Instead of reducing 10% or 0.1mg every 14 days.  You simple reduce at a rate of 0.714% or 0.007 mg a day. 

 

In the example, you are reducing at the same rate but just taking a cut everyday. 

 

I guess I want the discussion opened to talk about the advantages of this method over the cut and hold.

 

***Please note:  I have nothing against cut and hold, it definitely works for a lot of people.  The Ashton Manual and this forum is the reason I have made it this far.***

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

Sharkey: I am just about down to .5 mg K, using cut and hold. I know that K won't dissolve in water but will in alcohol. Are you just using whisky or something?

Thanks, Tommy

[[bu...]]

 

Sharkey: I am just about down to .5 mg K, using cut and hold. I know that K won't dissolve in water but will in alcohol. Are you just using whisky or something?

Thanks, Tommy

 

Most folks use vodka.  Propylene glycol is another option.

[[po...]]

Im still holding. I'M LOOKING FOR SOME GOOD NEWS!  How many of you are going through the micro taper or have finished one successfully?  How were your symptoms on the way down? and after the jump?  I keep hearing it's better than cut and hold but I really need some good stories right now to give me hope.  Anyone?  I think a lot of people could use this as well.

[[bu...]]

Im still holding. I'M LOOKING FOR SOME GOOD NEWS!  How many of you are going through the micro taper or have finished one successfully?  How were your symptoms on the way down? and after the jump?  I keep hearing it's better than cut and hold but I really need some good stories right now to give me hope.  Anyone?  I think a lot of people could use this as well.

 

I have finished a successful DLMT taper after failing a C&H taper (multiple times).  I had only occasional, moderate sxs during my DLMT.

 

It really seems completely logical that a person can tolerate a series of tiny reductions more easily than one big one.  I obviously reached a point where I could not tolerate a .5mg cut, but I had no problem cutting .025mg each day.

[[ga...]]

Swammi, Sharkey is rarely on BB since he became a daddy, but you can count on builder. He has stepped up and is our DLMT guru now.

 

Pooky, I have always done better with DLMT. And it always has needed to be very slow. I don't seem to do well if I push my taper rate above 6%/month. So the DLMT along with the right taper rate are the keys for me.

 

Is it just where I hang out, or do you think more and more people are doing DLMT instead of cut and hold, builder?

 

Gard

[[po...]]

Im still holding. I'M LOOKING FOR SOME GOOD NEWS!  How many of you are going through the micro taper or have finished one successfully?  How were your symptoms on the way down? and after the jump?  I keep hearing it's better than cut and hold but I really need some good stories right now to give me hope.  Anyone?  I think a lot of people could use this as well.

 

I have finished a successful DLMT taper after failing a C&H taper (multiple times).  I had only occasional, moderate sxs during my DLMT.

 

It really seems completely logical that a person can tolerate a series of tiny reductions more easily than one big one.  I obviously reached a point where I could not tolerate a .5mg cut, but I had no problem cutting .025mg each day.

Thanks Builder

Your story is the one I hold in my head when I'm trying to envision my taper.  I wish i could hear from more people though.  I wonder...Im at 4.5mg right now and holding due to a bad cut.  I cut .07 and didn't do well so updosed back to 4.5 but I'm still not 100%  loud tinnitus, shakes,heartrate, anx...but all livable compared to where i was in acute.  When you began your 3rd and successful taper were you at 100% when you started?  I don't know if I should just begin to taper or hold a little longer to see if I feel a little more stable.

[[po...]]

Gardener and or Builder

Maybe a seriously stupid question but do you cut literally "everyday" or do you sometimes stop to see if there is lag time?  Builder you said you were cutting .02 at 4.5mg.  So you cut .02 everyday and never slowed down? Gardener what is your daily cut rate and do you ever hold to see if its going to catch up to you?  is every other day an option?  I'm just really trying to get a plan laid out in my head. 

Builder thanks for answering my question on that other thread.  Things got out of hand a little over there.  Im staying out of that.  You've been helpful to me.

[[ga...]]

Gardener and or Builder

Maybe a seriously stupid question but do you cut literally "everyday" or do you sometimes stop to see if there is lag time?  Builder you said you were cutting .02 at 4.5mg.  So you cut .02 everyday and never slowed down? Gardener what is your daily cut rate and do you ever hold to see if its going to catch up to you?  is every other day an option?  I'm just really trying to get a plan laid out in my head. 

Builder thanks for answering my question on that other thread.  Things got out of hand a little over there.  Im staying out of that.  You've been helpful to me.

 

Personally, I think every other day would be fine. I've done that myself. Or every third day or whatever worked for me with the markings on my syringe.

 

I don't look at my daily cut rate, I look at my monthly cut rate. I've determined that 6% per month is safe for me right now. So I took my total dose, multiplied it by 6% and divided that by the days in a month (30). At the end of the month, I'll look at my new total dose, multiply that by 6% (or however brave I'm feeling) and divide by 30. Or I might divide by 15 and cut every other day instead. And I often round numbers to hit the closest line on my syringe.

 

The idea is to make fairly steady, regular, small cuts that your body can tolerate. If you accidentally go too fast, hold for awhile and start up again at a slower pace.

 

My opinion is it's better to start at a slower rate, say 5%/month and inch up if you are able, than to start too fast and crash and need to hold. Slow and steady wins the race. Actually, it's not a race. It's a journey.

 

Gard

[[bu...]]

Gardener and or Builder

Maybe a seriously stupid question but do you cut literally "everyday" or do you sometimes stop to see if there is lag time?  Builder you said you were cutting .02 at 4.5mg.  So you cut .02 everyday and never slowed down? Gardener what is your daily cut rate and do you ever hold to see if its going to catch up to you?  is every other day an option?  I'm just really trying to get a plan laid out in my head. 

Builder thanks for answering my question on that other thread.  Things got out of hand a little over there.  Im staying out of that.  You've been helpful to me.

 

Personally, I think every other day would be fine. I've done that myself. Or every third day or whatever worked for me with the markings on my syringe.

 

I don't look at my daily cut rate, I look at my monthly cut rate. I've determined that 6% per month is safe for me right now. So I took my total dose, multiplied it by 6% and divided that by the days in a month (30). At the end of the month, I'll look at my new total dose, multiply that by 6% (or however brave I'm feeling) and divide by 30. Or I might divide by 15 and cut every other day instead. And I often round numbers to hit the closest line on my syringe.

 

The idea is to make fairly steady, regular, small cuts that your body can tolerate. If you accidentally go too fast, hold for awhile and start up again at a slower pace.

 

My opinion is it's better to start at a slower rate, say 5%/month and inch up if you are able, than to start too fast and crash and need to hold. Slow and steady wins the race. Actually, it's not a race. It's a journey.

 

Gard

 

I cut every day, and I think most folks doing a dlmt cut every day.  I mean, you have to dose every day, so why not just cut every day.

 

But like Gard says, the whole idea is to do a steady, gradual reduction.  So it for some reason every other day is easier, that will probably work.

[[jr...]]

I would hold whenever I felt like sxs were ramping up. After just 2-3 days of holding , I felt well enuff to start cutting again. I prob held 6-7 times during my DLMT. I also held for about 3 weeks when I switched from dry to liquid.Holding is a good idea when sxs overtake you. I even done a couple of updoses when I was dry cutting.

 

Gardener and or Builder

Maybe a seriously stupid question but do you cut literally "everyday" or do you sometimes stop to see if there is lag time?  Builder you said you were cutting .02 at 4.5mg.  So you cut .02 everyday and never slowed down? Gardener what is your daily cut rate and do you ever hold to see if its going to catch up to you?  is every other day an option?  I'm just really trying to get a plan laid out in my head. 

Builder thanks for answering my question on that other thread.  Things got out of hand a little over there.  Im staying out of that.  You've been helpful to me.

[[po...]]

Jr50898

Thanks for adding a response!  How was your taper?  Was that your first attempt?  And what measuring tool or type of syringe did you use once you switched to liquid to make such small exact cuts?

[[Ki...]]

I was cutting every other day and holding a few days here and there then a few weeks here and there but now Im in a long hold. I agree cutting such a tiny bit seems so much better because if you get hit theres really not much of a difference in dosage and you can usually just wait it out or " updose" to where you felt ok which seems a bit silly as if you go back to where you were last week you would still be within the " margin of error" for generic pill differences, scales etc. Only reason I am stuck in a long hold now is because I went in to donate platelets and ended up agreeing to let them take plasma as well, so I had a big chunk of my  of valium sucked out of me. Im very thankful for the long half life otherwise I might not even be able to type.

[[po...]]

kittybeanbag

are you noticing any improvement as you hold?  I'm holding from too big of a cut as well.  It just seems to be staying the same.  How long do you think it takes to feel better?

[[...]]

Hi Pooky, have you checke out the long hold support group? They may well have the answers to the question of how long to hold after making too big of a cut. Everyone is different in how long it takes to stabiliz though.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=153201.msg2392288#msg2392288

 

Swammi, I am also tapering from K. I use Cashew milk to dissolve my doses. K is highly fat soluble so milk or any high fat milk substitute will work. I've been liquifying my K since September and have had no problems with using milk.

 

I haven't been on here much because I've been holding but I wanted to come by and see how everyone is doing. I'm looking at trying to micro taper again starting in July. Due to my CT from Wellbutrin I can't do a dmt so it will be sxs based instead. I have managed to have a window or two since I started holding so that has been nice.

 

Hugs and healing, I miss chatting with all of you. 

[[Va...]]

kittybeanbag

are you noticing any improvement as you hold?  I'm holding from too big of a cut as well.  It just seems to be staying the same.  How long do you think it takes to feel better?

Hi Pooky. When I cut too large it took 6 months to feel better. It was nasty during most of the hold but slowly let up and I was able to resume tapering and have done much better since. I would probably updose if it happens again and then hold in an effort to stabilize as quickly as possible.  --V

[[Ki...]]

Yes! Until I had this moment of stupidity with the plasma donation I could definitely tell things were getting more stable as I was cutting back. I could remember things a little better, could help more when working, could even work alone! Sleep is basically better overall but not like when I first finished crossing and held a few weeks I was sleeping really good. But I can definitely tell healing is happening. Sometimes I notice sensitivity to sounds, sometimes visual stuff, sometimes muscle stuff, eye twitches, but it seems to be like its " working through" it. I think a lot of people dont even know there is anything " wrong" with me on good days and early on I guarantee even on good days people would have noticed. I think Im on the end of this bad hit from the plasma donation and its been 3 weeks. A very rough 3 weeks but I feel like its clearing up now!

[[ga...]]

Yes! Until I had this moment of stupidity with the plasma donation I could definitely tell things were getting more stable as I was cutting back. I could remember things a little better, could help more when working, could even work alone! Sleep is basically better overall but not like when I first finished crossing and held a few weeks I was sleeping really good. But I can definitely tell healing is happening. Sometimes I notice sensitivity to sounds, sometimes visual stuff, sometimes muscle stuff, eye twitches, but it seems to be like its " working through" it. I think a lot of people dont even know there is anything " wrong" with me on good days and early on I guarantee even on good days people would have noticed. I think Im on the end of this bad hit from the plasma donation and its been 3 weeks. A very rough 3 weeks but I feel like its clearing up now!

 

I'm glad you're starting to feel a bit better, Kitty.

[[po...]]

Kitty- thats just crazy that happened to you.  Who would have thought.  I'm glad your feeling better.

Valley Um - That gives me so much hope that your taper has been going so well since!  Do you notice any lag time where symptoms ever catch up to you after cutting every day? 

[[Ki...]]

Thanks Gard❤️❤️❤️Today was my first day of feeling like I was in the right place in a while. I still have jelly muscles and a headache but hey who am I to complain- if I sleep ok tonight I will be pleased as punch with so few symptoms!

[[Va...]]

Kitty- thats just crazy that happened to you.  Who would have thought.  I'm glad your feeling better.

Valley Um - That gives me so much hope that your taper has been going so well since!  Do you notice any lag time where symptoms ever catch up to you after cutting every day?

I don't cut every day. I cut .05 every 2-5 days depending on how I feel.  --V

[[...]]

Valley- I guess you're MTing now so this may not apply... But you said if you had a bad cut again, you would updose instead of long hold- how long do think you would wait before updosing?

[[Va...]]

Valley- I guess you're MTing now so this may not apply... But you said if you had a bad cut again, you would updose instead of long hold- how long do think you would wait before updosing?

Hi libr. I would updose and hold. I think the updose would shorten the hold time considerably. I would updose if sxs are escalating beyond 10 days.  --V