Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

[[bu...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

 

Yes, 1:10 is the generally acceptable ratio.  And you don't just "switch".  You need to gradually transition, lowering the A as the V begins to accumulate.

[[He...]]

I will be tapering soon and I'm new to all this. Do you hold when you micro taper or do you just do it every day and how much ?

 

Holds are often unnecessary with daily tapering.  If you choose a reasonable taper rate, your sxs, if any, should be manageable.  And unlike a cut-and-hold protocol, if you do become symptomatics, they will emerge gradually, and you have an opportunity to make corrections before they become significant.

 

I've found this to be true. I held last Fall for colds and a loss in the family and didn't notice much difference, except that I felt better when I was tapering. Valium is so good due to the long half-life. I'm 58 and have been taking V for 13 years. Check my sig. Hope that gives you some encouragement. 

[[ga...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

 

Yes, 1:10 is the generally acceptable ratio.  And you don't just "switch".  You need to gradually transition, lowering the A as the V begins to accumulate.

 

Absolutely.

 

Hope, I'm not sure from your signature if you were taken off the Ativan and put on Valium, or if the new doctor added the Valium to the lowered Ativan. Whichever it was, your nervous system has taken quite a hit and your hold is a good idea.

[[po...]]

Hope

After I reinstated on diazepam which is valium it took about two weeks to fully stabilize.  I felt "normal" again.  but since my last cut which must have been to big its been about 20 days still not symptom free but functioning.  Are your symptoms improving at all?  That's what I look for.  Any tiny signs of moving in the other direction.  Im so sorry.  I know what it feels like to not know if you can stand another second of it.  I'm here if you want to talk.  I'm new to this tapering shit as well so I hope someone comes along to give you a better answer.  Does your Dr. think going up a little more on your dose will help?

[[HO...]]

How long should a micro taper be for 4 months use? With bad withdrawl symptoms?

[[HO...]]

I will be tapering soon and I'm new to all this. Do you hold when you micro taper or do you just do it every day and how much ?

 

Holds are often unnecessary with daily tapering.  If you choose a reasonable taper rate, your sxs, if any, should be manageable.  And unlike a cut-and-hold protocol, if you do become symptomatics, they will emerge gradually, and you have an opportunity to make corrections before they become significant.

 

Yes, just make sure you are making very small cuts so you don't get ahead of yourself and you may not need holds. Also helps to make sure you are stable when you start. I did not stabilize after my crossover and paid for it with a long hold.

 

You decide how much. People generally choose to taper in the range of cutting 5-10% of their dose per month, adjusting every month. So, of you choose 5% per month, you figure out what 5% of your dose is and divide that amount by 30 (for days in the month) and cut that much every day.

 

If you give builder your numbers and what percent you want to cut, he can tell you how much to cut per day.

 

I agree starting with the liquid makes it simpler. I did it with Xanax liquid. Now I do a home brew with Librium. It's not hard after you get the hang of it. I have my directions written on a card on the kitchen counter for when I am in a cog fog. Just for an example, I empty a 5mg capsule of Librium into a bottle, dissolve it with 3ml of 80 proof vodka (measured with an oral syringe), and add 97ml of water (measured with a graduated cylinder). Shake a bit. Now I have a very dilute solution that is easy to cut by very small amounts.

 

Gard

 

How long was your hold?

[[HO...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

 

Can you stablize on less if you do a long hold?

[[HO...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

 

Thank you

[[HO...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

 

Yes, 1:10 is the generally acceptable ratio.  And you don't just "switch".  You need to gradually transition, lowering the A as the V begins to accumulate.

 

Too late for that first dumb doctor now I have a benzo wise one. What to do now? Should I just start tapering or hold till stable. Long hold group says do this. Just looking for other opinions. Thx

[[HO...]]

I will be tapering soon and I'm new to all this. Do you hold when you micro taper or do you just do it every day and how much ?

 

Holds are often unnecessary with daily tapering.  If you choose a reasonable taper rate, your sxs, if any, should be manageable.  And unlike a cut-and-hold protocol, if you do become symptomatics, they will emerge gradually, and you have an opportunity to make corrections before they become significant.

 

I've found this to be true. I held last Fall for colds and a loss in the family and didn't notice much difference, except that I felt better when I was tapering. Valium is so good due to the long half-life. I'm 58 and have been taking V for 13 years. Check my sig. Hope that gives you some encouragement. 

 

I get so confused some people feel better when they taper some do holding? 😐

[[HO...]]

How do you know when to start tapering after reinstatement after 8 days. Should I wait till I have no symptoms or stable after a few months. Is sweating or flu feeling a sign of tolerance? Sorry so many questions I got burned from this stuff fast. Dependency for me happened in 4 weeks with severe withdrawals including seizure. I don't know if I should have reinstated but I had not found this site yet. Finally found a doctor that, put me on 20V, but I don't feel stable yet after a month on it. My withdrawl symptoms are life altering. Thx everyone

 

According to my equivalency chart 1mg Ativan = 10mg Valium. Does this sound right to others?

 

If so, if you were dependent on 3mg Ativan then you would need 30mg Valium to stabilize.

 

OK, I promised I wouldn't try math, and I did anyway, so someone please check this!

 

Another option would be for you to ask this on the Substitution Taper Plans forum, Hope. Also, you could try the Long Hold support group. Both groups have people who do this sort of how-much-how-long math.

 

Gard

 

Yes, 1:10 is the generally acceptable ratio.  And you don't just "switch".  You need to gradually transition, lowering the A as the V begins to accumulate.

 

Absolutely.

 

Hope, I'm not sure from your signature if you were taken off the Ativan and put on Valium, or if the new doctor added the Valium to the lowered Ativan. Whichever it was, your nervous system has taken quite a hit and your hold is a good idea.

 

Yes it has thank you. No first doctor just switched me no crossover time that's why I'm so sick.

[[HO...]]

Hope

After I reinstated on diazepam which is valium it took about two weeks to fully stabilize.  I felt "normal" again.  but since my last cut which must have been to big its been about 20 days still not symptom free but functioning.  Are your symptoms improving at all?  That's what I look for.  Any tiny signs of moving in the other direction.  Im so sorry.  I know what it feels like to not know if you can stand another second of it.  I'm here if you want to talk.  I'm new to this tapering shit as well so I hope someone comes along to give you a better answer.  Does your Dr. think going up a little more on your dose will help?

 

I'm going to ask him at my next appointment at the end of May. Some signs have improvement. Thanks for your support.

[[HO...]]

Kasey

Thank you for that.  I know my sig is a little confusing.  I was on clonazepam 1mg for 6 years.  I wanted to get off.  I had cut to .75 without any problem.  My n"not smart" Dr told me to just stop clon and crossover to librium and do a quick 4 week taper.  I did that and for the following 4 weeks I though I wasn't going to be able to live.  I had EVERY symptom.  the worst thing was the DP/DR i didn't recognize myself or my kids in a normal way and I had strange suicidal thoughts.  That is not me.  I found a benzo wise DR and he reinstated my at 5mg liquid diazepam.  It took about a week but felt normal again!  Over the next few months I slowly lowered to 4.5 with only a little anxiety.  then just recently I made too big of a cut.  I then went back up but I can't stabilize!  Its been 15 days and is intensifying.  I don't know what to do.  Should I update a little more of hold even longer.  Im shaking so bad right now its difficult to type.

Thank you for responding.

 

Holy moly, Pooky!! Bless your heart for surviving all this nonsense up to this point. I've been through some rocky times too, and my experience has taught me to hold when things get this nuts. Looking at your situation, I would say.... HOLD until you stabilze and then move forward!! Just FWIW.

 

Builder will be your saving grace.

 

Hang tight!

 

Jeff

 

Is there a guarantee that a hold will help you stabilize.

[[ga...]]

I will be tapering soon and I'm new to all this. Do you hold when you micro taper or do you just do it every day and how much ?

 

Holds are often unnecessary with daily tapering.  If you choose a reasonable taper rate, your sxs, if any, should be manageable.  And unlike a cut-and-hold protocol, if you do become symptomatics, they will emerge gradually, and you have an opportunity to make corrections before they become significant.

 

Yes, just make sure you are making very small cuts so you don't get ahead of yourself and you may not need holds. Also helps to make sure you are stable when you start. I did not stabilize after my crossover and paid for it with a long hold.

 

You decide how much. People generally choose to taper in the range of cutting 5-10% of their dose per month, adjusting every month. So, of you choose 5% per month, you figure out what 5% of your dose is and divide that amount by 30 (for days in the month) and cut that much every day.

 

If you give builder your numbers and what percent you want to cut, he can tell you how much to cut per day.

 

I agree starting with the liquid makes it simpler. I did it with Xanax liquid. Now I do a home brew with Librium. It's not hard after you get the hang of it. I have my directions written on a card on the kitchen counter for when I am in a cog fog. Just for an example, I empty a 5mg capsule of Librium into a bottle, dissolve it with 3ml of 80 proof vodka (measured with an oral syringe), and add 97ml of water (measured with a graduated cylinder). Shake a bit. Now I have a very dilute solution that is easy to cut by very small amounts.

 

Gard

 

How long was your hold?

 

I held for over 6 months.

Gard

[[HO...]]

I will be tapering soon and I'm new to all this. Do you hold when you micro taper or do you just do it every day and how much ?

 

Holds are often unnecessary with daily tapering.  If you choose a reasonable taper rate, your sxs, if any, should be manageable.  And unlike a cut-and-hold protocol, if you do become symptomatics, they will emerge gradually, and you have an opportunity to make corrections before they become significant.

 

Yes, just make sure you are making very small cuts so you don't get ahead of yourself and you may not need holds. Also helps to make sure you are stable when you start. I did not stabilize after my crossover and paid for it with a long hold.

 

You decide how much. People generally choose to taper in the range of cutting 5-10% of their dose per month, adjusting every month. So, of you choose 5% per month, you figure out what 5% of your dose is and divide that amount by 30 (for days in the month) and cut that much every day.

 

If you give builder your numbers and what percent you want to cut, he can tell you how much to cut per day.

 

I agree starting with the liquid makes it simpler. I did it with Xanax liquid. Now I do a home brew with Librium. It's not hard after you get the hang of it. I have my directions written on a card on the kitchen counter for when I am in a cog fog. Just for an example, I empty a 5mg capsule of Librium into a bottle, dissolve it with 3ml of 80 proof vodka (measured with an oral syringe), and add 97ml of water (measured with a graduated cylinder). Shake a bit. Now I have a very dilute solution that is easy to cut by very small amounts.

 

Gard

 

How long was your hold?

 

I held for over 6 months. Regarding the length of the taper, it depends. It really isn't based on length of use. You have to pay attention to your symptoms as adjust as you go.

and it helped? Can you hold when you become destabilized and it help?

[[ga...]]

I will be tapering soon and I'm new to all this. Do you hold when you micro taper or do you just do it every day and how much ?

 

Holds are often unnecessary with daily tapering.  If you choose a reasonable taper rate, your sxs, if any, should be manageable.  And unlike a cut-and-hold protocol, if you do become symptomatics, they will emerge gradually, and you have an opportunity to make corrections before they become significant.

 

Yes, just make sure you are making very small cuts so you don't get ahead of yourself and you may not need holds. Also helps to make sure you are stable when you start. I did not stabilize after my crossover and paid for it with a long hold.

 

You decide how much. People generally choose to taper in the range of cutting 5-10% of their dose per month, adjusting every month. So, of you choose 5% per month, you figure out what 5% of your dose is and divide that amount by 30 (for days in the month) and cut that much every day.

 

If you give builder your numbers and what percent you want to cut, he can tell you how much to cut per day.

 

I agree starting with the liquid makes it simpler. I did it with Xanax liquid. Now I do a home brew with Librium. It's not hard after you get the hang of it. I have my directions written on a card on the kitchen counter for when I am in a cog fog. Just for an example, I empty a 5mg capsule of Librium into a bottle, dissolve it with 3ml of 80 proof vodka (measured with an oral syringe), and add 97ml of water (measured with a graduated cylinder). Shake a bit. Now I have a very dilute solution that is easy to cut by very small amounts.

 

Gard

 

How long was your hold?

 

I held for over 6 months. Regarding the length of the taper, it depends. It really isn't based on length of use. You have to pay attention to your symptoms as adjust as you go.

and it helped? Can you hold when you become destabilized and it help?

 

Absolutely it helped. That's why I hang out on the Long Hold thread! I was completely destabilized from a too-fast taper and crossover and was barely functioning. Little by little, I got a lot of function back. I still struggle with anxiety, but I can take care of myself and can even drive on the freeway again! (Not every day. I don't need that much misery. )

[[HO...]]

You take Librium right? What is Q?

[[ga...]]

You take Librium right? What is Q?

 

Sorry, Q is Seroquel. I take a very low dose at night for sleep. Low-dose Seroquel seems to be a favorite among psychiatrists for sleep because it is a powerful antihistamine at low doses. I take 25mg.

 

I have read up on it. The explanation is that Seroquel has an "affinity" for the H-1 histamine receptor. That means it wants to go there first. So, if you take a very low dose, most of the Q gets attached to the H-1 receptor, which is very sedating. Even though it is an antipsychotic, it's not acting as one at such a low dose because the histamine receptors are grabbing most of it.

 

I'm not recommending it. I only did it when I was near death from lack of sleep. I had lost so much weight it was dangerous and was barely functioning and making really stupid decisions. I didn't want to get locked up. I broke down and took the Q. It works OK. I get 6 hours of broken sleep, not really deep, but I can function if I pace myself. For some people Q puts them right out for hours and hours. But, as with all sleep meds, the effects get weaker over time. Some people take a tricyclic antidepressant for sleep. That is considered a safer choice. My pharmacist even told me so. But I have a genetic liver defect that does not allow me to process many drugs, and tricyclics are one class I cannot take. Bummer.

 

Gard

[[Ki...]]

Another sleep aid that seems popular on this board is hydroxizine, its an antihistamine with some anti-anxiety properties. I use that and alternate it with unisom, the old formula that seems to be getting harder to find. Some folks take it in the daytime even though it makes them tired to help with anxiety. Not recommending it, since it also does NOTHING for a lot of folks, but its an option and most docs will have no problem prescribing it. And its super cheap its been around since like WWII!

[[ga...]]

Another sleep aid that seems popular on this board is hydroxizine, its an antihistamine with some anti-anxiety properties. I use that and alternate it with unisom, the old formula that seems to be getting harder to find. Some folks take it in the daytime even though it makes them tired to help with anxiety. Not recommending it, since it also does NOTHING for a lot of folks, but its an option and most docs will have no problem prescribing it. And its super cheap its been around since like WWII!

 

That's interesting, Kitty. I will have to look into that. I don't like being on Q.

[[Rh...]]

Hi, so I've been in pure hell for two weeks from tapering too rapidly.  I am desperate and updosing to 2.75 mg's and starting a daily liquid micro taper.  I have a few questions-

 

1.  Should I expect a uptick in WD symptoms (I updosed a little, from 2.6 to 2.75 to avoid any inconsistencies and get somewhat stabilized);

 

2.  Should I wait maybe two weeks to make sure it's a good choice?

 

3.  Can I use water to dissolve my V?  I shake it really well and it seems to dissolve good.

 

4.  Kinda off subject, but is heartburn and bad GI problems normal?

 

Thanks for all the info and help!

 

Rach

[[bu...]]

V is NOT water soluble.  That's not an  opinion, its an established fact of physical chemistry.  Your tablet will break down, disintegrate (most of the tablet is NOT V) but the V will NOT go into solution, and will NOT be uniformly distributed.

 

Dissolve it a tiny amount of vodka or propylene glycol, then dilute it with water.

[[Rh...]]

Builder-

 

I cannot tolerate vodka... How much propylene glycol do I need and where do you get it?

 

Rach

[[Ki...]]

Another sleep aid that seems popular on this board is hydroxizine, its an antihistamine with some anti-anxiety properties.

 

That's interesting, Kitty. I will have to look into that. I don't like being on Q.

Gard it was really weird when I took my itchy dog to the vet and he said shes " atopy"- something about a bad allergic skin thing- he prescribed hydroxizine for her so now we both take it!