Retired Military and have been on 4mg clonazepam since 2003

[[Cr...]]

Groove! Slight correction;was married to someone in the military who is now retired after 21 years(although I feel that I "served" myself after being a "faithful" spouse after 25 years!) Which started me on this hellish "benzo"war! I already know the answer to this but does smoking "cigs" tend to make things worse....really trying to quit; try to keep it under 7 a day. Also has anyone tried Mirtazapine while withdrawing from Klon? Really need some sleep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[[gr...]]

Ohhh OK CR, small correction lol.

I dont think smoking is gonna make sxs worse except for maybe a faster heart rate. Most will say dont try to quit while tapering. too stressful but if you CAN quit its always good! I smoke also so....I tend to smoke less now then ever though also. They taste nastier than usual

 

Yes ive tried remeron, it will make u sleep and helps my anxiety, but ill be a zombie the next morning and mainly i dont want another drug on the list to need to taper off. If it helped my depression, i would more than likely take it, but ive never taken it more than 2 nights i a row and thats not long enough to know its it will help.

[[Cr...]]

Again, Thanks Groovejuice(Love the name btw) Try to have a pleasant evening!!!!!!!

[[su...]]

Hi Again,

I am no idiot...it is the posts I have read here which got me thinking about doing a slow taper..maybe not from my original dose of  2mg bid ( 4mg daily for 10 yrs). but from half that. BTW I was able to get my K this morning and took a front load of 3 mgs asap...within a few a hours the mild symptoms of visual disturbances (interesting my wife confirmed no nystagmus, but it sure felt like it!), mild vertigo like symptoms and mild (I don't know what to call it...irritability/depersonalisation) were gone.  All benzos are fat soluble ( cept for midazolam {Versed,}, which is only mostly used in a inpatient setting due to an extremely short half-life). The is the reason for front loading is to get the body back into the comfort zone.  Now feeling fine and will do a one day taper from the carbamazepine and gabapentin that I have been taking for three days now.

I hear you  loud and clear...I never reached the real w/d stage as K has a half life of 30-56 hrs., but I was in the initial stages...which at 43 sent me to a emergency clinic with a cessation panic attack.  Now I feel I can handle the mental and physical manifestations...I am 10 years older and I recognize them coming.  My heart rate and BP never made any excursions from normal...and if I experience tach, i know will KNOW WHY and can control it...at least enough to make a decision about whether to take an extra dose of K or ride it out.  I have no fear of death, no fear of losing my mind...I just don't at 53 unlike the panic attacks that gripped me at 42.  My wife will be here around the clock and I am considering staying on 500 mg depakote ER bid as as anti seizure and mood stabilizer.  Oh and I have added 500 mg magnesium tid to try to avoid cramping. To sleep at night I have been taking 20mg melatonin and 10 mg of tizanidine (not a drug to be messed with for the inexperienced) after the first night of insomnia two night in.

From your posts, consensus is I am probably still a couple of days from full w/d.  If I can't handle it, I'll go back on 1.5mg bid and see if that works, but only as a last resort will I up that to my orig dose, or try CT again.  Does anyone see pitfalls in this strategy?

[[Ju...]]

All benzos are fat soluble ( cept for midazolam {Versed,}, which is only mostly used in a inpatient setting due to an extremely short half-life).

 

All benzos are not fat soluble.  Two of the most popularly prescribed benzos here are not fat soluble:  Xanax, (alprazolam), as well as Ativan, (lorazepam).  But Klonopin and Valium are 2 benzos that happen to be fat soluble.

 

I disagree with the front loading as having anything to do with solubility if this is the logic behind front loading.  However, I've seen some doctors do this for patients to help get them back on track after a cold turkey, even with non fat soluble benzos.  I believe the doctors might think that flooding the receptors with a benzo, might help calm down the sudden influx of glutamate that occurs during abrupt cessation.  Just a guess. 

 

Personally, if I were in your shoes, and planning to reinstate after such as short time ct'd, I'd go back on at my starting dose and taper from there.

 

A benzo taper is like taking the stairs vs jumping down the elevator shaft.  Personally, I don't believe in skipping steps.  Skipping steps may result in a hard fall, (^^^^symptoms that may not resolve as the taper progresses or might actually slow a taper down, IMO.)  Thus, I would start back at my original dose and slowly step off of the medicine in a step-wise fashion from there.

 

I believe in being methodical.  I'm glad you got your meds!!!  Well done. 

[[su...]]

OK, you are right about Xanax and Ativan; that leaves the great majority of benzos as fat soluble. Agreed also that time of onset has little to do with fat solubility, but AUC certainly does (as seen with clonazepam).  Without doubt, front loading with a dose of 3 mg helped alleviate my minor symptoms more rapidly as both Cmax and AUC were mkre rapidly achieved. 1 mg tonight and all is well.

[[Pe...]]

Looks like we are going for a hard fast ride.  Sub, you have 100% of the best support you could ever hope to find right here no matter what you do.  Settle in for the ride...{{{wink!}}}. We all come out the other end.  Lol!

[[Mo...]]

if you are unlucky and you are King Kong you will go down on your knees,

but don't worry, we are a strong bunch of people here, we will help you to get up again.

[[Cr...]]

Is anyone else going thru this alone? Sleeping a little better(4-5hrs) with help of hydroxyzine at night,but having horrible and vivid dreams;when I wake up I feel so tired and sad...all of you that have someone,count your blessings!!! Because this is so unbearable to suffer thru by one self....please pray for me!!!!!

[[Pe...]]

Crossroads, you are going to make it through this.  There are a lot of us here living alone going through this like you are.  You can start a new thread on "Aloneness" or "Living Alone" which will help you feel better when you hear of others working out solutions to the difficulties we deal with and it will offer you hope.  The bad dreams and fears will get better.  Just remind yourself it is the chemicals leaving your system causing these symptoms and none of this is permanent.  It just takes time.

 

[[su...]]

Thanks all!  Let's see how I am doing in a week.  I will cave at the first sign of severe w/d.  I am not trying to be superman here.

[[Pe...]]

Lol!  Sub, you are going to be our poster child.  The Man Who Survived Himself.  Have you started a blog yet to enter your daily experiences?  It will be helpful so you can review your progress and will also give you something to do when you get that occasional sleepless night.  For me I lost track of time, days and weeks.  I have very little recollect to look back on and regret not doing this.  I think many of us thought about writing a book at one point in this hell.  May the Force be with you!

[Guest [Mi...]]

The Man Who Survived Himself

 

 

Peruzer, you have a very quick wit! So glad you're here.

 

And subkiller, best of luck to you. We're all cheering you on. I hope you take the slow and steady route, but you know we're here for you.

[[Pe...]]

Yep, we are going to pull Sub out the other side of this no matter how difficult he makes it.  Anyone have and doubts?

[Guest [Mi...]]

No doubts here.

 

 

[[Cr...]]

Peruzer...Thank you so much for your response , You have NO IDEA how much that meant to me...really sad right now..going to try to get on the treadmill for a little while...hope your feeling good...again, Thank You!!!!!

[[Pe...]]

Cross ❤️

[[su...]]

to everyone, thanks for the input. All the medications I am using/have used were prescribed to my wife and in the doses I am or have taken, for migraine prophylaxis, but, of course, have other primary uses.  Thu morn will mark one week at 1mg bid, with 3 days of CT when I could not get med. Again I am not experiencing any discomfort, and have been down to the to 2 mg level before. I am NOT saying that it will be easy from here but I see no reason to go back up to 4 milligrams a day. Over on the wd support for now. Just taking the depakote ER as a precaution for seizure prevention.

[[ca...]]

Hey Sub,

 

Not to take the wind out of your sails...but I was doing fine too after my Klonopin was changed to a shorter acting Benzo...It did not hit me until about 2 months later...

I hope you make it through this and do well...but these people are not making this up.....Every symptom that Dr Ashton and others have written about can and does happen.

 

I wish you all the best on your journey.

 

Causing

[[su...]]

Again thanks to all for your input.  If I had not found this board i would have continued CT till a bad result..even though I I have been well aware of benzos and their mental and physical effects. I do feel empathy for those that have had such a tough time, but hope my gradual taper for 2mg daily will be successful and as symptom free as possible. i do plan on at least a month at this level before beginning a gradual taper of 10%/week down to 1 mg, then 5%/ week till done.  I did not find any new or helpful info in Dr. ashton's book...perhaps because I was already familiar with the effects of benzos and an skeptical of all doctors and big pharma.  I feel bad for those who allow doctors to be the boss in their care.  I had a bad experience long ago in the Navy that made me resolve to always be in control of my med care.  i guess I was lucky to get an early wake up call.  Thanks again, and hope to see you on the  taper support board.

[[su...]]

Sorry that's the wd support board.

[[el...]]

Good luck, Sub - you will get continued support here!

 

Ellen

[[su...]]

just a quick note to let all know what's going on. 20 days in on my abrupt cut from 2mg bid to 1 mg bid... tapered off depakote as the threat of seizure it has passed...

no other drugs necessary...transient symptoms of insomnia and irritability are gone just watched the Red Sox win a game going to bed now... thanks for your help so far.

[[Mo...]]

just a quick note to let all know what's going on. 20 days in on my abrupt cut from 2mg bid to 1 mg bid... tapered off depakote as the threat of seizure it has passed...

no other drugs necessary...transient symptoms of insomnia and irritability are gone just watched the Red Sox win a game going to bed now... thanks for your help so far.

 

[[pi...]]

just a quick note to let all know what's going on. 20 days in on my abrupt cut from 2mg bid to 1 mg bid... tapered off depakote as the threat of seizure it has passed...

no other drugs necessary...transient symptoms of insomnia and irritability are gone just watched the Red Sox win a game going to bed now... thanks for your help so far.

 

I'm glad things are going well for you!

 

pianogirl