XANAX Support Blog: If you're tapering Xanax/alprazolam, join in the discussion!

[[ho...]]

Hi Hopefulgirl

 

I was reading back through your posts of when you were first joining us on the old Xanax thread, and I wanted to ask you about your final stages off of Xanax

 

I read that you said you could feel each little mL reduction you'd make when tapering off the the final 0.03125mg.  You dissolved this into 100mL of water.  In your posts, you began withdrawling 1-2mL of the solution and then holding for a week or so.  You'd mentioned that you were feeling even those tiny cuts.  In one post, you said:

 

"Ok-I have a question I'm hoping some of you can help me with...I am currently on .026875mg of Xanax. I am splitting it into 4 equal doses per day. Shockingly for me, each cut is still awful. I cut two days ago and have my worst side effects among others which are severe migraine, head pain and low back pain-lack of apetite, fogginess, etc. I am only making tiny, tiny cuts right now. I mean I am going from like .027175 to .026875 and I still feel it. I definitely tapered too fast due to lack of information prior to June 1 and finding Benzo Buddies. So, I have been trying to be patient and go nice and slow. However, at this pace I won't be off for almost another year-from this tiny dose! That seems too extreme the other direction especially at this dose. I am not even completely sure what my question is, other than I am wondering if I should make larger cuts or more frequent cuts. If I am going to be sick for several days after a cut, it seems like it might as well be bigger to not draw this out to a long slow torture, or to have less times where I am so sick by making larger cuts but therefor fewer of them. Make sense? I hope so. Also, could drawing it out like this be making me sicker? Any guidance on this would be helpful. I am ready to be done. I still have another med to taper. However, I don't want to go so fast that I draw out my recovery or become unable to function again. I am not functioning very well and still can't drive, etc. However, I am so much more functional than when I was tapering more quickly. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. I guess I can post it on the larger forum but really trust all of you for guidance!

Thank you!

Hopeful Girl"

 

I am thinking that you forged through, and began cutting 1 mL per day until you were done...is that right?  I find myself at 46mL (moving to 45mL today), and in a similar spot as you were back then -- symptomatic with or without cuts, but seems worse 24-48 hours after a cut.  I am thinking I should just go a head and cut a mL every couple days and just get off.  I am still working my full-time job, and want to continue to do so.  This is my only hesitation in moving faster, to be honest.  But, I think that drawing this out over another 9-12 months would mean this level of symptoms for that entire time -- and I don't want that, either.  I'm at 0.046mg of alprazolam.  Each mL is a 0.001mg cut, or just over 2% cut of my current dose.  The past month, a mL cut is felt -- I'll just say that. 

 

My question, Hopefulgirl, is: how did you fair by speeding up your taper?  Did you get worse, or was it about the same moving at a faster rate?  I think I'm at the point where I just want to get off of this stuff, but not to the point where I'm bed-bound and non-functional.  So, if you wouldn't mind relaying your experiences during this final phase, I would much appreciate it

 

Hope all is well with everyone else   Healing is happening, every day in every way, even if/when we don't feel like it is   Take care

 

Mrs.

 

Hi Mrs,

 

Yes, from .03125 to .015625 was very rough for me. It seems impossible but as you know, you can feel every ML. I did just keep pushing. If it got too hairy I would hold for a couple of days but mostly I cut 1 ML every day. I'm glad I did and even in hindsight know this was the right path even though it was hard. The reason I know it was the right choice is that when I got down below .015625 is when I started to get a lessening of symptoms. Down in the very low doses, like .009 and below, I began to cut 2ml per day and I didn't feel the cuts. I was still symptomatic but I didn't get any worse with the cuts and as mentioned before, I started to get better. By the time I took my last cut to zero, I didn't feel it at all. My baseline didn't dip. So, I really believe that from my experience, big healing begins at the very, very end and I think drawing it out at those small doses just draws out the suffering. Make sense? I am happy to elaborate and give you additional insight. Let me know what questions you have. Of course, as you say, you have to decide what is right for you but I'd recommend pushing ahead. I think you may postpone the real recovery by drawing it out. I hope this helps! You are in the homestretch!

 

Love,

 

Hopeful Girl 

[[mr...]]

Great information, Hopeful. My instinct is saying to go forth, just like you did. I will take things a day at a time Thank you for your time and relaying your experiences

 

Happy Saturday to you

 

Mrs.

[[ho...]]

Great information, Hopeful. My instinct is saying to go forth, just like you did. I will take things a day at a time Thank you for your time and relaying your experiences

 

Happy Saturday to you

 

Mrs.

 

I really stuck to what I know is  your policy too...I could hold at any time but I wouldn't go up. So I gave myself permission to hold when needed but I can tell you as I held it didn't do much. I did take a 1 week break from cutting at one point which was good for me but other than that it was a push to zero!

 

Have a great Saturday evening yourself!

 

Love you!

Hopeful

[[mr...]]

Feeling quite well this late morning through now; I am grateful & expectant of longer, better windows & less symptoms all the time. Healing is happening. All the time.

 

Have a great evening, all

 

Mrs.

[[Bl...]]

Feeling quite well this late morning through now; I am grateful & expectant of longer, better windows & less symptoms all the time. Healing is happening. All the time.

 

Have a great evening, all

 

Mrs.

Good to hear Mrs. I love your positive attitude.

 

Blue

[[Ju...]]

Hi everyone!  I'm a total newbie to all of this and have a question that MAY seem silly to some but it is a serious thing for me.  My question is this...Is .5mg Xanax 3 times daily a dose that I should have alot of concern about w/d seizures if those doses are being replaced with 3 doses of 7.5 daily?  According to the Ashton manual, which my Dr won't even look at, it would take TWICE the amount of Tranxene  to replace the aforementioned xanax dose.  Tranxene is aka chlorazepate.  Any thoughts or opinions on this?  My Dr tells me this IS safe although I may feel some discomfort as well as some extra anxiety or panic.  The only reason I think it may sound silly is because of  many posts I've read that make my dosage sound really small, if that makes any sense.  Thanks so much in advance for your thoughts and comments.  As you can tell by my signature I haven't much experience with this sort of thing.

[[Bl...]]

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=83493.0 I am not familiar with Tranxene, but I found a link that mentions it.

 

Blue

[[Ju...]]

Hi everyone!  I'm a total newbie to all of this and have a question that MAY seem silly to some but it is a serious thing for me.  My question is this...Is .5mg Xanax 3 times daily a dose that I should have alot of concern about w/d seizures if those doses are being replaced with 3 doses of 7.5 daily?  According to the Ashton manual, which my Dr won't even look at, it would take TWICE the amount of Tranxene  to replace the aforementioned xanax dose.  Tranxene is aka chlorazepate.  Any thoughts or opinions on this?  My Dr tells me this IS safe although I may feel some discomfort as well as some extra anxiety or panic.  The only reason I think it may sound silly is because of  many posts I've read that make my dosage sound really small, if that makes any sense.  Thanks so much in advance for your thoughts and comments.  As you can tell by my signature I haven't much experience with this sort of thing.

 

Good to see you in the Xanax thread. 

 

Your situation, (as far as your Xanax dose), is quite the norm here and your questions are not silly.  1.5mg of Xanax is not what I'd consider a low dose of Xanax.  A low dose of Xanax, in my opinion, would be in the range of .25 to perhaps .50mg.  I also do not consider 1.5mg of Xanax to be a high dose, but a somewhat average dose.

 

Your doctor has prescribed 22.5mg of Tranxene to replace 1.5mg of Xanax.  According to the Ashton Manual, the equivalent dose you need is 45mg.  This represents a 50% cut to your dosage.  You mentioned in your Intro thread that your doctor also wants you to abruptly stop your Xanax and immediately replace it with the Tranxene without doing so in stages.  By following your doctors plan, this might bring on some very severe symptoms if you are the type of person who is benzo sensitive.

 

BenzoBuddies is a self selecting group of people.  The vast majority of us are benzo sensitive.  This means that we are very sensitive to dose reductions.  This is why we recommend that the first several dose reductions that a person does during their taper are in the range of 5-10%.  By reducing by no more than 5-10% for the first few dose reductions, the person tapering is able to gauge whether or not they are also going to react negatively to small dose reductions.

 

All of this said, by reducing your dose by 50%, and doing so abruptly, by replacing a benzo with a short half life, (Xanax), with a benzo with a longer half life, (Tranxene), I believe your body might even interpret the reduction as being a bit greater than 50%.  This is because Xanax works almost instantly and then leaves the body very quickly.  Tranxene, being a longer half life benzo might take a longer time to fully activate within your system.  I'm not really familiar with Tranxene except that it has a much longer half life than Xanax.  The longer half life benzos usually require up to a week or longer before they reach what is known as a "steady state" in our bloodstream.  In your case what this might mean is that the Xanax will very quickly be out of your system, while you are waiting for the Tranxene to build up in your bloodstream to that steady state.

 

Have you ever tried to reduce your Xanax dose before? And if so, how did you taper, (Mgs dropped), and how did you feel when you tapered?  If you've done this before it might help you determine if you are also benzo sensitive.

 

We understand that the vast majority of people are not benzo sensitive.  They just don't wind up on BenzoBuddies because they have no need to be here because they aren't having problems.

 

As far as seizures, IMO, the vast majority of people who do not have a preexisting seizure disorder, have a very low risk of suffering a seizure during a benzo taper.  However, I have seen this occur on somewhat rare occasions, with people who made very high percentage rapid dose reductions. 

 

Have you made the switch to Tranxene yet?  If not, if you have a supply of both benzos still available, I could possibly help you with developing a crossover schedule that might make this process go a bit smoother for you.  Please let me know if I can help you.

 

I would search for a new doctor if I were in your shoes, after reading some of the things you said about your doctor in your Intro thread.  Benzo withdrawal is not something to take lightly, IMO.  We need to have doctors who are willing to prescribe our benzos during this difficult time, in a manner to allow us to be as comfortable as possible during this process.  Here is a list of doctors who may have experience supporting a benzo taper:  www.benzodocs.com 

 

I wish you well.  Please keep posting for support. 

 

[[Ju...]]

Thanks, Juliea, your reply was pretty helpful and I THINK reassuring.  you had a couple of questions I'll try to address.  1) This is not my first attempt at a taper.  Here is how the first one went:  Psychiatrist (at the ONLY place I can afford) actually LAUGHED at me during our first meeting which was maybe 15 minutes long.  He refused to prescribe ANY xanax unless I gave up my dose of 2.75mg Tranxene 2 times daily.  i was a little leary of this plan as I have been taking that dose of Tramxene off and on ( mostly on) for about 20 years.  So, I took his NEW script of 3.75mg tranxene 3x daily.  Stilee I knew I needed to taper from the Xanax. ( The Xanax was NOT an Rx, it was obtained by a "friend" who had no problem providing them at no charge, as this was illegal.  Due to new laws, her Dr stopped prescribing her bigger dose which meant my supply was about to dry up.  HENCE, my thought that I better get off the stuff while the getting was good.  I had/have some childhood issues that have needed addressing anyway so I signed up at the clinic where the stubborn and condescending Psychiatrist is.  I was very truthful with them about everything, even the desire to taper the xanax for which I had no prescription. SO, I went to my MD ( a very responsible(?) guy I really like otherwise and DO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GOOD TRUST IN.  i told him allof the above and he agreed to put me on a taper for Xanax.  the plan was a 4 week plan, .5mg daily cut for 7 days, then a .25mg daily cut daily for each subsequent week of the 4 weeks.  i expressed my concern about this being too fast but he would hear none of that and assured me all would be well.  Into day #3 I was having some breakthrough anxiety and Fairly bad headaches so I called to let him know this and ask if it was too fast.  He was insistent that I di as he directed.  Here's the tricky (sort of) part.  I was to call in his office weekly for a weekly fill in order to yake a proactive role AND not have access to too many doses at a time.  fine.  At the end of the first week, I dutifully called his office and requested week # 2.  What was called in was the ENTIRE remaining 3 weeks.  i immediately called the Drs office to let them know of this possible error.  He indeed admitted it was an error but to just finish what 8 had as directed on the bottle of 42 .25 Xanax was : "take one tablet twice per day as needed".  As you can imagine this didn't work and I screwed up the plan by taking 3 or 4 per day which ran it short.  i also had my "friend give me a small supply of 15 1mg xanax thinking i would somehow cut these and finish the taper...NOT SUCCESSFUL.  So, I called my Dr., admitted my error ("weakness") and THAT  is when he refused to try the taper again.  Even though he admits to making an error when calling in ghe 2nd and subsequent weeks in incorrectly, he is firm in his NO resolve.  In addition, my "friend" is dry.  i saw the Psychiatrist last week and told him i have extra anxiety and he upped the dose to the current 7.5 mg 3 x daily.  through the Ashton manual I learned this is really only 1/2 of what I need for an instant switch.  For right now, I have self upped my Tranxene to make it match the Ashton method but also know this will not last forever.  i've done this for 3 days with a plan to cross my fingers and call the Psychiatrist tomorrow (Monday) and see if he will increase the Tranxene again as I'd rather have more than I need that not enough.  WOW....so that was a long answer to a short question.  I hope it wasn't too confusing.  NOW I have a roomie willing to give me ONE .5 xanax per day while i up the Tranxene dosage.  I HAVE gone 12 hrs without Xanax while tKing the upped Tranxene and am feeling mostly just sleepy but not dysfunctional.  My thought is that I am quite possibly just too paranoid & am maybe giving this a little too much worry.  SO, as of right now, my BEST hope is .5mg ONCE a day is what is available to me plus the Tranxene.  It would seem this should be enough to make the crossover a little less instant.  ( Also keep in mind that through all of this, I have been on the 3.75mg Tranxene 2 x daily for many years so my brain is somewhat ( I would assume) used to it.  WHEW!  I hope that wasn't as exhausting for you to read and and sort as it was to write.  Thank you again, look forward to hearing back from you .

[[Ju...]]

Ok Justwantanswers  , this is what I need to know to help you:

 

How long have you been taking 1.5mg of Xanax per day?

 

Were you also taking Tranxene and Xanax together regularly?  And if so how often and how much of both Meds?

 

I need you to try to come up with a general baseline of your recent, (past 2-months at least), medication history of dosages of the various benzos.  Please use the KISS method when responding because I'm a bit foggy  today from staying up late last night.

 

[[Ju...]]

Ok Juliea:

 

For about 20 years I took 3.75 mg Tranxene  1 to 2 times daily.

Since October 2012 I went from .5mgs Xanax a day to THREE .5 mgs xanax daily until about 1 week ago.

 

For the last 2 months, my dosage has been 3.75mg Twice daily and .5 mg Xanax 3 times daily.

 

i hope that helps...sorry for your fog and my ability to confuse you, lol.  thank you for trying! 

[[Ju...]]

Juliea, please make that TWO month schedule more like a 10 to 12 month schedule for more accuracy in,time.  I,only,mentioned the two months as that was your "at least" suggestion.

[[Ju...]]

Ok Juliea:For the last 2 months, my dosage has been 3.75mg Twice daily and .5 mg Xanax 3 times daily.

 

This is the statement that helps me the most, so I quoted it in isolation.

 

Since this is your dosage pattern for the past two months, this is the amount of benzo that you are very likely dependent upon, IMO.  Now knowing that you are also a very long term benzo user, this gives me a much clearer level of your possible dependency.

 

We calculate equivalencies based upon the full benzo load that a person has been regularly taking.  Since benzos were only meant to be taken for 2-3 weeks max, by taking the doses of Xanax in addition to the Tranxene for a minimum of 2-months, there is a high probability that you are dependent upon this amount of benzo, IMO.

 

1.5mg of Xanax = 45mg of Tranxene

3.75mg Tranxene X 2 = 7.5mg of Tranxene daily

 

Adding both of these together, your full benzo load in both the X and T = 52.5mg of Tranxene equivalent benzo use for a two month period of time.

 

This is a big difference in what you told us at first and do you see how this effects the %, the doctor is requiring you to drop?

 

He's got you going from 52.5mg equivalent to 22.5mg of Tranxene?  This is a greater than a 50% reduction.

 

I'd try to get my hands on as much Xanax as possible to make up the equivalency IF my doctor would not prescribe me the 52.5mg of Tranxene I needed for an equivalent dosage to what my body was very likely dependent upon.

 

It appears to me that you are going to be benzo-short, 30mg of Tranxene per day.  This is equal to 1mg of Xanax.

 

What I'd do if I were in your shoes is I would immediately start taking the full dose of Tranxene prescribed by my doctor.  And I would also take 1mg of Xanax per day.  This would give me an equivalent dosage that my body was accustomed to.  I would wait to stabilize for 1-2weeks, to allow the extra Tranxene to build up in my system.  I WOULD TAKE THE EXACT SAME DOSE EVERY DAY AND NOT TAKE EXTRA AS NEEDED DOSES.  Same dose, every day for 1-2 weeks.  Then I would begin tapering off of the Xanax part of my doses first and lastly taper off of my Tranxene.

 

I know you're in a pickle supply wise.  I hope you can accomplish this with the supply you are able to obtain.

 

I will help with the Xanax part of your taper plan if you decide to do this after you are starting to stabilize on the Tranxene substitution you're having to do abruptly.  I don't believe that you will have too many problems with the Tranxene substitution part, now that I know you were already taking this medicine.  However, I believe if you reduce your dose by the greater than 50%, this MIGHT throw you into an acute withdrawal phase that could take a very long time to bounce back from.  Please keep posting for support.

 

Caveat: All of the info I posted here is what I would do if I were walking in your shoes and are my opinions only.  I am not a doctor.  I'm just a person who has withdrawn from Xanax and studied benzo tapering and dependency.

 

 

[[ba...]]

im currently taking 0.0625mg of alprazolam,  the pills im cutting the meds from are OLD 0.50mg egg shapped pills from 9-12 months ago cutting one into 8 pieces

i actually feel ok i had a bad experience taking vitamin B6 too soon before my meds dose at night im taking the b6 now after breakfast so im good i plan to take magnesium later after lunch then a b complex & omega fish oil with dinner , i need to take more vitamins so i'll take a Centrum multivitamin after a snack and a cinnamon tablet after another snack. i try to drink a cup of milk early in the morning so the vitamins i take WORK

[[Ju...]]

Juliea, please make that TWO month schedule more like a 10 to 12 month schedule for more accuracy in,time.  I,only,mentioned the two months as that was your "at least" suggestion.

 

I don't believe there is much difference between 2-months vs 10-12 months of use, when it comes to establishing a new dosing pattern in a long-term user.  In other words, if I took Xanax at 1mg per day for 2-years and then upped my dosage to 3mg per day for as little time as 2-3weeks, I could very quickly become dependent upon the new dose of 3mg per day.  It does not happen to everyone but I believe the likelihood of a long term user getting hooked on a higher dose can happen very quickly. 

[[Ju...]]

Good for you to be able to cut those pills into 8-pieces Babyangel.  You've got good steady hands.    BTW, I always saved my old pills in a dry place.  I never noticed a bit of difference in the potency of old pills vs brand new pills. 

[[ba...]]

Hi miss Julia i keep a few whole pills and my scrap tiny pieces in my purse i would get anxiety if i left my house to the supermarket or to the dollar store i go to frequently without my meds , i plan to use my treadmill for 20 minutes later today as well i did that yesterday

i still smoke occasionally i dont know why i smoke when sometimes i feel yucky from doing i t

[[Ka...]]

Hi HopeGirl and Mrs,

 

I read the last few conversations between the two of you very diligently, as this is exactly what I am going through currently.  The only difference is that I am currently at 0.55 mg/day, so am not in the low range.  However, just a 1 mL/day cut is noticeable (0.00125mg cut per day as I suspend 0.125mg in 100 mL of water).  It makes me wonder, as the 0.125mg split from a 0.25mg tablet is obviously not 100% exact.  In addition, I c/t in January 2013, so am perhaps fighting residual c/t symptoms.  My main problem is head pain at the side of the temples, alleviated with Tylenol.  If this was not present, I could possibly taper quickly.  My rate is 4 days (4 mls) and then a hold for 1 day, albeit without any relief.  Have tried 2 mls/day and found the pain increases!  So for now, am microtapering.  However, if the agony is to continue, I wonder whether a somewhat faster rate would work?  I am functional, thank goodness, but am so looking forward to getting lower in the daily dosage.

 

Anyone know of anything I should try for head pain, besides Tylenol?  Juliea was on Elavil, but am not willing to go that route. 

 

Thanks.

 

PS. The gingko protocol worked fantastic and even found some of my old self again when on it, but it increases my BP, so had to quit (there are some published reports on the negative interactions between gingko and diuretics/BP medications).

[[Ju...]]

Kantu, thinking back I don't believe Elavil helped my migraines very much if at all.  It did help me with body pain caused by Xanax tolerance though.  I did not take Elavil for about 10-years prior to when I began tapering.  I used over the counter pain meds and prescription Imitrex for my headaches during my taper.  I am not recommending you take Imitrex, it's just what I happened to be prescribed for migraines for many years and it worked for me.  I hope you get what to do with your taper sorted out.

[[Ka...]]

Kantu, thinking back I don't believe Elavil helped my migraines very much if at all.  It did help me with body pain caused by Xanax tolerance though.  I did not take Elavil for about 10-years prior to when I began tapering.  I used over the counter pain meds and prescription Imitrex for my headaches during my taper.  I am not recommending you take Imitrex, it's just what I happened to be prescribed for migraines for many years and it worked for me.  I hope you get what to do with your taper sorted out.

Thanks Juliea,

 

Will continue with the slow taper for now.  Perhaps in 2 months, I might be able to go faster.

 

Am going for a wedding - 5 hours by car each way and will see how I can cope with it.......It has been a long time since the c/t that I have attempted something like this.

[[la...]]

just wanted to pop in and share how I'm doing 1 week out.

 

The last couple days I went to the casino, which I feel was a good thing.  Not just wanting to stay in bed.  While there I didn't really feel anxiety or anything, even at a poker table with 10 people.  I think it was a good thing to actually have the desire to get out of the house and do stuff as well.  I'm still not myself though.  Not really partaking in joking around with the group of people at the poker table, and mostly quite while there.  But, I felt fairly content while sitting there.  My heart wasn't racing, and no feelings of impending doom, where I would want to retreat back to the safety of home. I even had a few beers and a cup of coffee yesterday.

 

Also, I applied for a job.  I'm not feeling like I can perform a full time job this minute, but possibly by the time I actually get the job I feel like I could perform it.  Atleast it is a sign of optimism for the future.

 

I feel like the SSRI I've been taking has helped some.  There is still a lot of negatives going on, but there is a glimmer of positives that I felt like sharing as well.

 

I think one thing that has helped me is keeping my mind off of benzo withdrawal.  I use to play poker proffesionally, and the last couple weeks I've picked it up again, just playing online.  It gives my mind something to focus on, and do, other than thinking about benzo withdrawal.  Basically it is not the most productive thing in the world, but I haven't really thought about benzos much the last week or so, which is nice.

[[Mo...]]

Congrats Lacey on finishing your taper.  It sounds like you are doing good.  Good Luck with getting the job.  Getting out the house and doing something you enjoy is great.  It helps to get your mind on other things besides getting off of benzos.  :)

[[mr...]]

Great information, Hopeful. My instinct is saying to go forth, just like you did. I will take things a day at a time Thank you for your time and relaying your experiences

 

Happy Saturday to you

 

Mrs.

 

I really stuck to what I know is  your policy too...I could hold at any time but I wouldn't go up. So I gave myself permission to hold when needed but I can tell you as I held it didn't do much. I did take a 1 week break from cutting at one point which was good for me but other than that it was a push to zero!

 

Have a great Saturday evening yourself!

 

Love you!

Hopeful

 

I understand Thank you again for your thoughts

 

Mrs.

[[ba...]]

Hi Mrs mrsalw good to see you again! its been awhile since i saw your name on here ! i hope your doing well. im happy to see on your signature that your able to work thats awesome

[[je...]]

Hello all, as of today I am at .1875 Xanax. I am feeling good, more like the old normal me. I plan to cut one more dose and get to .125 before stopping. I have worked through the whole taper, which has been tough! Now I only have some leg and arm aches. Anyone stop at this point? And what can I expect? Thanks!