XANAX Support Blog: If you're tapering Xanax/alprazolam, join in the discussion!

[[Be...]]

Im not sure what all those big fancy nancy words mean Rabbit, but if youre asking if magnesium alone works without the "others"... yes, it did for me.....cause I didnt study any calcium and D factors....it made my heart palps subside really well....

[[Be...]]

of course Im sure it works better if the other supporting factors are right.

I did read some stuff about the calcium ratio,, but like I said, it seemed to work for me without thinking about the other stuff..

[[Ka...]]

I know we are here to taper... But I still can't stabilize. I thought I was there after a small updose a few days ago to .75mg. I had been feeling okay for those days. But yesterday every dose felt like I they just wore off after about 2-3 hours. I had classic w/d sxs of anxiety, aches, headache, jaw pain, no appetite. Then last night I was up all night with honestly what feels like a heart attack crossed with cold turkey w/d. Pounding fast heart rate, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach cramps, racing thoughts, akathisia, panic. I've been getting these night episodes more often, had one exactly last Fri, too. I'm still having all the sxs now.

 

I only updosed .03mg, but I was going to where I felt "okay" last. I feel like I need to go up again. At least try it one last time to see if I can stabilize to taper.  If I can't I don't know what I'll do. This is intolerable. I'm not sure how much to updose again though. I think Reg Peart said 1-2mg Valium (.05 -.10 Xanax). Also not sure how long to give it. I wonder if I'll feel better tomorrow and this is just a wave from the updose. Wishful thinking.

 

Any suggestion would be very appreciated.

 

Mac, did you transition to liquid suspension from dry and not give it a couple weeks to hold/adjust?  A switch like that (from dry to liquid) would, IMO, act like a "cut" and therefore need a standard hold for 7-10 days in order to adjust and stabilize to its use.  So if you moved into it and then began immediate cutting, it could explain your rise in symptoms (it's acting like a "double-cut").  Also, some cannot tolerate the liquid suspension for some reason.  I have a buddy on here who tried the liquid suspension, but it made her too sick and symptomatic.  She went back to dry dosing and held to re-stabilize for a couple weeks.  Since dry-cutting wasn't an option with her sensitivites to cuts, she is now water titrating by mixing her dry dose in water, and this is working well for her.  I don't know why the pharmacy liquid suspension causes some people issues, but it does  

 

In regards to symptoms, the past two months, I feel your pain in a lot of ways we'll just say   My brain likes plenty of time away from the computer, so I won't be able to answer a litany of questions from you...but I'll offer a few tips that have helped me along this journey, if it can help  

 

Two things have been a saving grace for me; the first being 1.) Vitamin C.  This can be very, very helpful for the night time / early morning issues -- it "gobbles" cortisol in the bloodstream, and therefore helps to stave off the "rushes" that can occur.  I coach weight loss & nutrition in my home town, and advise my clients to be mindful of the following; all is my opinion, and not medical advice, okay?: be sure to purchase a buffered or "time-released" formula of vitamin C.  Do not purchase a synthetically made version of vitamin C; be sure it is a natural source (like from acerola cherries, preferably), and that it contains something called "bioflavonoids".  Take it in low, small doses multiple times throughout the day.  "Low" doses means something different for everyone.  I personally dose 500mg of Nutrilite's Vitamin C Extended Release formula 4-6 times per day, which equals a dose of 2,000-3,000mg per day.  I dose 500mg right at bedtime, and I dose 1,000mg at my 3:15am dose of Xanax as well -- to stave off the cortisol rise of early morning.  Once I awake in the morning (6:30-7am), I also dose another 500mg -- again to stave off the morning cortisol. Note that this version is an expensive formula, but highly effective. I can explain WHY you want to do all the things I mentioned above with vitamin C, but in order to save breath and brain-space (LOL ), I'll leave it here.  The benefits I've noticed for myself personally are: greatly diminished morning anxiety/"dreads" and nausea, almost eliminated my "sudden awakings", greatly diminished my nightly wakings, during the day it has diminished my panic/anxiety.

 

The second helper for me has been magnesium: glycinate, in particular.  Not all magnesium is "created equal", and therefore not all will absorb into your bloodstream (they refer to it as having a "high bioavailability" if it can absorb).  And, if you want it to have the calming/relaxing principles it does on the central nervous system, it must reach the bloodstream.  Long story short, magnesium glycinate has a bioavailability of about 80%, which is among one of the highest.  Everyone's "effective" dosage is different, so figure out what works well for you.  Like vitamin C, you'll dose low and multiple times throughout the day.  I use and recommend Doctor's Best 100% Chelated Magnesium Glycinate.  I dose 200mg at a time (2 tablets) 4-5 times per day, about every 4-6 hours (which equals 8000-1000mg per day). This has benefited me with the following: reduced rapid heart rate & palps occurrences (a HUGE deal to me), reduced generalized feeling of anxiety by about 60-80% (another HUGE deal for me), reduced occurrence & intensity of panic by 60-80% (again, another HUGE deal for me).  Again I'll mention that everyone's effective dosage is different, so start small and work your way up.  For a long time, 400-600mg per day was PLENTY for me.  Just recently have I needed to move my dosage up to help with symptoms.  You'll find your "niche"

 

You'll most likely have some rough, icky days with tapering, friend.  It's not glorious, nor fun, but it is what it is.  I've been just trying to lay low and "surf" the waves when they happen -- reminding myself that they are just withdrawal symptoms from an icky drug.  I've been thoroughly checked over by a cardiologist, regular MD, and a few others...and I'm completely healthy.  If you've not had things checked out, it is great peace of mind, and you can do so just to be safe/sure.  It has been a big helper to me to ride out the waves when they happen.

 

Hope you feel better soon.  Like I said, I'm spending less and less time in front of the computer as of recent, just to give my brain the break it's asking for, so I won't be available for lots of questions.  But I hope this has helped you out a little   Do feel free to PM me if you have a question or two in the future, or if you need a little encouragement   I can stop on and drop a line or two here and there   Take care, friend!  Remember, we put the 'wit' in 'withdrawal'!! (credited to my good buddy, Rriver!!)

 

Mrs.

 

Hi mac13,

 

Just to let you know that my symptoms got revved up using Ester C.  I tried a chewable version with bioflavonoids and this did not help either.  Amla Berry - a natural source of Vit C seems to help.  Mag Glycinate helped a lot, but recently, I stopped it to see if this is what is giving me the nerve pain in the brain.  It is not, as the nerve pain has continued.  If it was not for the nerve pain, I could go on tapering and get this done (I am at 0.6 mg/day).

 

Perhaps ponder into "borrowing" from 2 doses to up your afternoon dose (very slowly), instead of updosing, to make all doses somewhat equal.  But not right now.  Recently, I switched from dosing 6X to 5X a day and "transferred" all my 2 am dose to the 10 pm dose, so that I did not have to wake up at 2 am.  However, any slight adjustments to our sensitive brain is bringing on symptoms -  I know you c/t like me.  Recently, I had to hold for 2 months to somewhat stabilize from the nerve pain, but it is ongoing.

 

Deep breathing exercises, alternate nostril breathing, and body scan meditation is helping somewhat. 

 

Kantu 

 

 

[[VC...]]

Most people have excess calcium in their blood, but are low in magnesium, Rabbit.

 

In my case, I'm low in both (but I only know that for sure due to testing). If you're low in magnesium, just take a good absorbable magnesium, making sure you're getting B6 somehow in your diet or thru a food base B-complex if you can tolerate it. I love Doctor's Best mag glycinate, but also use transdermal mag oil in my case.

 

More info here: www.gotmag.org

 

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

I wonder, if you tested low in calcium, you must be bad low..

cause my heart Dr said the test for Mag levels arent real reliable....so if you test low, you must be pretty low

 

he said, even if you dont test low, you could still be low, especially where the heart is concerned, because the mag for the heart is stored in areas where the test "dont reach"... so you can be low there and not test low for it.... I dunno....

 

I just know it helped with the palps a lot, could be placebo effect, but I'll take that..

[[VC...]]

VCharis, I take the metoprolol for heart arrhythimas, it helps control them by slowing the heartbeat down a little and helps keep it steady.....I take a baby dose, so it doesnt affect my BP or anything else.......

 

My interdose withdrawals were just the typical anxious/anxiety/panic that comes with withdrawing....they usually happened like clock work, so it was easy enough to just move my dose of metoprolol around to ward them off....someone else on here suggested it, evidently a lot of Drs prescribe these types beta-blockers to help with withdrawals.. I know my new cardiologist said she uses them in  the  place of benzos and such, for anxiety, like for actors with stage fright and  such... you can also take  them as needed, because they are immediate action.. they dont have to build up in your system or anything... I wish Id known all this prior to taking xanax...

 

Thanks, Benzy. I'm familiar with it - took it awhile - just wondered if you were using it PRN or what. They changed my heart pill after the Afib. It did help with anxiety, for sure. So maybe I had anxiety for years and the metoprolol masked it!

[[No...]]

Mrs, it's been my understanding that in order for magnesium to be bioavailable, you need to make sure calcium and vit D are also present in the correct ratios.  If you're up to it, what is your feeling on that?

Hi Rabbit,

    You are correct," adequate levels of magnesium in the body are essential for the absorption and metabolism of vitamin D and calcium. Magnesium converts vitamin D into its active form so that it can help calcium absorption" - Quote from below link.

See more at: http://www.nutraceuticalsworld.com/contents/view_breaking-news/2013-03-07/association-magnesium-essential-to-absorption-of-vitamin-d-calcium/#sthash.cnYFfLIS.dpuf

      My understanding after reading Dr. Carolyn Dean's Book: The Magnesium Miracle. Good Read for those interested.

 

    As you are aware, everyone is different in their "supplemental" requirements for your body. Most blood test do not

    indicate deficiencies in vitamins, unless its a specific test. Now they do test for Vitamin D. IMO

 

    You must always check with your DR in regards to adding or stopping any type of medications, prescribed or not.

    This includes supplements, as some have reactions to prescribed medications. Good practice for your good health

    is keeping your DR's in the loop on ALL MEDICATIONS AND SUPPLEMENTS you are taking and amounts.

 

    Hope you are doing okay and that this information helps you, Rabbit.

 

    Peace

    NFM

[[mr...]]

Mrs, it's been my understanding that in order for magnesium to be bioavailable, you need to make sure calcium and vit D are also present in the correct ratios.  If you're up to it, what is your feeling on that?

 

It is true that calcium, vitamin D, and magnesium all use each other in the body, and all need each other.  The ratio between the three is different for everyone, however, it seems.  I don't know all the "ins and outs" so to speak, but from what I understand, most people are most deficient in magnesium, followed by vitamin D3, and then calcium.  And magnesium is the third most abundant element in the body, vitamin D is produced by the body, and calcium is 4th most abundant. So I choose to supplement magnesium the most, followed by vitamin D, and then calcium as needed.  Calcium is very present in a lot of our foods ("fortified" breads, flours, cereals, dairy products, processed foods, etc), so I rarely supplement it and just be sure to eat plenty of it.  I supplemented vitamin D3 for a while until it began to rev me up, and then I stopped -- this was a sign to me that I had plenty of it.  It stores in the bones, so I figured I was good to go for a while. The magnesium I've chosen to supplement the most with, like I said, because it's hard to consume from diet alone.

 

I cannot recommend dosages or ratios to use for the three, as it varies so greatly from person to person -- especially vitamin D3.  The generally (and I do mean generally) accepted ratio for calcium and magnesium is to eat/consume double the mgs of calcium as you do magnesium, but like I said this is different for everyone.  My own personal ratio does not match this, but has been adjusted to fit my needs.  Long story short? -- you'll have to see what works for you   For now, take your magnesium without worry of 'outdoing' your D and calcium -- that is not likely to happen. In fact, upping your magnesium is supposed to be quite helpful for upping low D levels.  VCharis just posted some good information on the relationship between vitamin D3 and magnesium on another thread that I found to be very helpful and make sense -- perhaps she will post it here as well? Hope it can help you

 

Mrs.

[[VC...]]

I wonder, if you tested low in calcium, you must be bad low..

cause my heart Dr said the test for Mag levels arent real reliable....so if you test low, you must be pretty low

 

he said, even if you dont test low, you could still be low, especially where the heart is concerned, because the mag for the heart is stored in areas where the test "dont reach"... so you can be low there and not test low for it.... I dunno....

 

I just know it helped with the palps a lot, could be placebo effect, but I'll take that..

 

You're right and your doctor's right. The serum blood tests aren't always accurate. But it often costs out of pocket to get the red blood cell testing, which is more accurate, plus an HTMA (hair tissue analysis) to pinpoint imbalances and ratios. No doctor, unless he's a functional medicine doctor, will bother to do that. I had serious electrolyte imbalances and mineral depletion across the board and still working on pulling out of all that. Magnesium is the STAR of the mineral show! We just don't get it in the standard American diet, and since soils are so depleted, it's hard to get enough in anything these days. I love my mag glycinate! Magnesium, for the heart patients in particular, is necessary for Mg-ATP around the heart, which helps us hold onto potassium for rhythm regulation. I've read/studied/researched this until my eyeballs are sore, but only because I was desperate and scared to get answers to the sudden A-fib. Been much better since working to restore magnesium levels. It seems to help keep everything else regulated. Hope you're doing well today, Benzy!

 

 

[[Ra...]]

Hi all, I actually did quite a bit of research a couple of year ago on the synergy between cal/mag/d and the usual recommendation is 2:1, 2.5:1 or even 1:1.  I've chosen 2:1.  So twice as much calcium as magnesium.  The problem is that many foods that have a lot of calcium also have a lot of oxalates.  It's a complicated system, but the oxalates will cancel out the calcium to some degree.  This is particularly true with some veggies, such as beets.  If you take in more oxalates than calcium (in the gut at the same time), more oxalates will be absorbed by the blood stream, can make it to your kidneys and cause calcium/oxalate stones.  Yes magnesium is woefully short in the American diet and everyone's body is so different.  I just stick to the 2:1 ratio. 

 

If your calcium blood work shows low, that is really bad.  Your body works hard to keep the calcium/phosphorous ratio in your blood stable and will draw calcium from your bones (causing osteoporosis) if need be to keep the calcium in the blood stable.  It's quite a delicate balancing act.

 

I did just realize those that the buffered C I have been taking are only 500mg, I thought they were 1000mg, so I'm going to include another one with my dinner.

[[VC...]]

Another side of the coin is that without ample magnesium directing the calcium, the calcium ends up in places we'd rather it not go (arteries, kidneys, etc). Our bodies are magnificently designed and delicately balanced, that's for sure. My blood calcium shows in range, but my hair analysis showed all electrolytes as seriously low a few months ago. Wish I could afford to order an ionized calcium test. Rabbit, what helped you decide to go with a 2:1 ratio? Or you can PM me.  Hugs, V.

[[Ra...]]

V, you are absolutely right, too much calcium is just as bad as not enough.  You do have to be careful with supplementation.  I guess my settling for 2:1 was just that seemed to be the most common recommendation I could find.  Who knows if it's right.  Medical science keeps changing their minds as new research comes to light, but for now, that's what I'm doing.  Actually I'm taking a bit more than 2:1 in terms of vit D.  My cal/mag/d is all in 1 capsule at the 2:1 ratio and then once a day I also take 1000IU of Vit D.  I've read some studies that say that the upper safe range is around 10,000IU.  In the past it was thought the toxic level was much lower.  I don't get much direct sun, so I figure I'm safe with my dosage as it is.  I also take a B complex.

[[ve...]]

What does stablized mean? I know what the word means bit I mean in tapering wise.

[[Be...]]

It's not a accurate word to use, cause Ashton says we never really stabilize until we're completely off the drug...but we use it anyway, to say we feel well enough between cuts, to start considering the next cut....in other words, your sxs subside

[[ve...]]

since i only used for a month should i really wait to "stablilize" i cant cut the pills i have any smaller than half they are 1mg, and crush when i try to do quarters? so i dropped from 1mg to .5 today. because i dont want to take something that is approximately .25mg. or is that better? i feel alittle tired. almost hungover. and my stomach doesnt feel hungry. but thats the most of it. today i read it could peak by 72hours and then should level out to whatever its gonna be...

[[ve...]]

Today. I did .5 and now I 7nderstand what the others have said about feeling sick. I only have 7 hours til my .5 dose again should I just tough it out or take my rough quarter idk. I dont feel good. But its also been aboht 14hours since ive had a dose so I kinda expect to.

[[Be...]]

How are you tapering? How much cut at a time?

[[...]]

Monique:

Hey Xana, I have burning mouth syndrome also.  I have seen a oral pain specialist that keeps up with all the latest research and has written some papers on it.  It is a very confusing thing to deal with.  Mine started with my anxiety and panic attacks.  Has your GP tested you for everything that could cause it.  Defieciency in certain vitamins, etc.  If not I would try that first.  I know some people that was deficient in B 12 and started taking it and it went completely away.  There is aso BMS facebook site that has a lot of good info on it if you haven't seen it yet.  Take Care

 

I have been tested for B12 and my levels were fine. So what does your oral pain specialist suggest you do about this horrible complaint?

 

I made the mistake last week of saying it gets worse when I get worked up about something. My GP said, 'Yes, it can be caused by anxiety and depression.'  Once they put things in that basket you are doomed! I have had plenty of anxiety and depression for years and years but never had this BMS with it. From what I've read, it is not known whether the anxiety/depression causes it or whether people get depressed from having it.

 

Sort of like fibromyalgia. Stress makes the symptoms worse but it wasn't the cause! Well, as far as we know. That's another delightful thing I have had for almost 21 years  now. No known cause or cure. And it wasn't caused by benzos as I was having a perfectly lovely life until it hit me. I resorted to Xanax after 18 months of misery and medical testing. My anxiety over what was wrong with me and why I felt so bad had built up to horrendous levels by that time. It gave me instant relief - not from the symptoms of fibro but from the anxiety (though that is a symptom so you could go around in circles forever!)

 

[[ve...]]

How are you tapering? How much cut at a time?

i was gonna do .25 but my doc wont change my prescription

And the pill wont quarter well. So I just took half it sucks a bit now but theres only 6 hours til I take .5 again before bed. I was on 1mg. Then split the dose to .5mg to .5mg and then dropped the morning dose. Ive been taking xanax for 28 days once a day at bedtime.

[[Be...]]

R u workn with bars or the blue oval?

You should be able to cut it into 1/4ths with a new sharp pill cutter

You're gonna hurt yourself cutting that much that quick...

[[ve...]]

Even with it onlt being 28days? And blue ovals. I asked earlier if close to quarters were good enough but no answer. The quarters are very crumbly

[[ve...]]

Hurt myself like put myself through rough withdrawal?

[[ve...]]

I took one of the rough quarters. I figure. The amount of error invovled cant be more than .05mg.

[[Be...]]

sorry, got busy,,, the weekends here are kinda slow

 

so youve been doing 1 mgs for a month...

 

you can cut the 1 mgs into 1/4ths pretty easy, that would be a .25... which is still a really big cut if your dependent... and since you say you felt pretty bad, sounds like you are dependent, so thats gonna hurt ya in the long run... if you let those side effects get going and take hold, they tend to take on a life of their own, and are hard to settle... so its best to never let them get a good start..

 

have you talked to anyone about titration?

[[Be...]]

vega, if I was you, and you didnt have access to any other mgs of pills to work with, and you dont wanna do the titration and such...

 

I would try this,,,, divide the 1mg pill into 1/4ths the best you can..

then take the smallest 1/4th and try to divide it in half... that would be .0125 (a half of a .25 pill)

even if it crumbles, separate the crumbles into two tiny equal  piles the best you can.. and leave out the smallest pile....and put the larger pile in a bottle by itself..

 

the next day do the same thing, put the smallest pile of crumbles in the extra bottle again..

 

after 4 days of doing this, you should have roughly .0125 of crumbles in your extra bottle that you could use for a dose of .0125 when you take your dose, just to use it and not waste it.....

 

ya might end up juggling 3 or 4 different bottles of crumbs this way, but it would allow you to cut .0125 instead of a higher mg cut...

 

just a idea,, I hate to see you cut as big as you are....you might be alright doing it that way, but the lower the better....

 

you really should look into titration..