Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group

[[ja...]]

Junelight, it took me over 2 years to taper the benzo and then over 2 years to feel better. It just takes time. I wish it didn’t. I can only tell you what has worked for me. I know that there are others who have been able to get off with minimal sx’s but you are having sx’s now so you have to decide what’s best for you. Considering how much you need to be able to function, like a job, family and such. Hopefully someone else will come along who is successful with cutting every 2 weeks and that can give you hope. I’m a chicken for pain Junelight, I try to avoid at all cost

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[Ja...]]

Well, okay guys. Just made my first cut from 15 mg to 13.5 mg. I was very nervous about the measurement. I triple checked my math and was super careful with the oral syringe. But all done now. Wish me luck. I should also ask the pharmacist about flavors next time because this stuff is awful. Lol.

[[ja...]]

Good luck Jack! I know how nervous you were. I remember when I started tapering this drug. Really scared and still feel that way sometimes. You got this!

 

Today was another rough day for me but I’m still planning my cut on Friday night. I hope I feel better tomorrow.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[ju...]]

Hello buddies, i am discovering new subjects going through this road everyday. Today, i wanna talk about syringes and ask some important questions.

 

Now, first i am using liquid remeron with the form of 1ml/15 mg which is available in my country. As you know i am holding at 0.8 ml/12 mg in these days.

 

As 5 ml syringes dont meet the needs of sensitivity, first i spill some quantity of 1.5 or 2 ml liquid into 5 mls, then i spill the part of my need into 1 ml syringes with the sensitivity of 0.01 ml. But there are some problems those i nearly discover.

 

First of all, the pvc syringe for diabetics that i used is not perfect. For example, i cant pull the liquid directly into it, i suppose because of its intense viscosity. So, i am using the 5 ml syringe for transferring. Is there a solution for directly pulling the liquid into it?

 

The other one is that: Lets consider the 1 ml syringe. I didnt measure it, but let it be a length of 10 cm and diameter of 0.5 cm. This 10 cm cylindir consists of 100 partitions of course. There is no problem about understanding this, but there is a part that we mount the needle to the bottom of syringe. This pvc part of course has a volume which doesnt include the syringe's 100 partitions indicatos. When one puts the liquid for 0.80 ml, in fact we spill 0.80 ml+ 0.02 or 0.05 ml or any other. What do you say about this fact?

 

This part of the syringe also has another issue i think. It is that when i spill the liquid into the 1 ml syringe for 0.80 ml, then pushing the pusher a little, i am seeing that this part fills with a little liquid and then i am adding  some liquid app. 0.02-0.05 ml to reach to 0.8 ml. This cond. verifies the things which i wrote in previous paragraph. Why do manufacturers neglect this prob?

 

For the reason of being stable, i should solve these problems urgently. Please show me the easiest way that i should follow...

 

[[Ja...]]

June,

        I think the key to stabilizing is stability. I wouldn't stress about how much you are taking as long as you are consistent. In other words if you use a 1 ml oral syringe and believe it to be accurate and think you are getting 12 mg but are truly getting 11.7 mg for example you will still achieve stability even if it takes a little longer. Remember that even those who cold turkey this drug eventually achieve stability though it takes a very long time for some. If I were in your shoes I would choose the 1 ml oral syringe. I would calculate the dose and trust the syringe without worrying about whether it is truly accurate or not and stick with that syringe for the duration of the taper. That way you get consistency and with consistency comes stability. I have to have mine compounded so I don't even know how accurate the compound is. It's not like I can test it. I don't know if this is helpful or not but those are my thoughts. Lol.

 

Btw, I just took my third dose at 13.5 mg and I felt awful today. From what I understand the withdrawals aren't even supposed to kick in until the third or fourth day so I might be in for it. I had crushing fatigue all day today that only lifted for a couple of hours in the afternoon. I also felt mildly flu-like all day. Then I had a lot of stabbing nerve pain and weird muscle twitches and spasms. Had some chest pains but I am pretty sure those are still from benzo withdrawal. I have them on and off but all cardio stuff always comes back fine. My back went numb for a few minutes and the weirdest thing that happened to me was while I was riding my motorcycle about an hour ago I had to pull over because it felt like my heart was farting. lol Sounds ridiculous but it's the only way I can describe the experience. Once I got past the anxiety it caused me I was fine and went on with my ride with no other issues. I also had about an hour of extreme anxiety around 2 pm. And then after an hour it just went away. A lot of weird stuff today for sure. Definitely feeling anxious about the weekend. I am working both days. Hope it doesn't get too bad. Right now I feel okay, just a little fluish.

[[ja...]]

Hi Junelight, hi Jack. Junelight, I cut my pills with an Xacto knife and weigh out grams. I am sure my doses are not accurate but it’s working for me so far. Someone told me onetime to not overthink the taper. That was good advice. We already feel half crazy.

 

Jack, sorry you are getting hit with sx’s. I have been hit the next day after a cut and other times not hit until day 8. We just never know. So unpredictable for me. Makes it hard to plan stuff. By the way that’s wonderful you can get out and ride your bike.

 

Today after 6 days of hell, I’m feeling a lot better. Feel like I’m amongst the living again. I decided to cut again Sunday night and here we go again. I hope I’m like Dave and everything gets better below 2mg.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[no...]]

Hey Junelight, I agree with Jack37 and jackie brown. The short of it is, the discrepancies you find in an air pocket or an extra bit of the liquid here or there, those will also become consistent as you use the liquid and start tapering it. I dealt with the same things. I even worried about the same things. But once you are steady on a dose, once you stabilize and start tapering carefully, those little discrepancies will become part of the dose. I hope that makes sense.

 

Right now, your nervous system is very sensitized. So starting and staying at a consistent dose for awhile is probably a good idea - that will give you a good starting point for further tapering when you are ready.

 

Like you, I was very motivated to be off all drugs. But I wanted stability even more than that. So I always kept that in mind during my taper. It really won't do you any favors to be off all drugs, but suffering immensely. From all of the research I did over the many years of my taper, the GABA receptors that are affected by the benzos are not affected by the mirtazapine. Which means that healing from benzos continues to happen even while on the mirtazapine. Some people run into trouble, as I did, with some histamine issues as the histamine receptors are affected by the mirt - but I found this far more tolerable than the damage wrought on the GABA receptors by the benzos.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[[Pt...]]

Hi Dave,

 

Is there anything you did to minimize the discomfort with the histamine issue? Other than take another antihistamine and avoid high histamine foods? I find myself sneezing a lot now. It is coming to change of season weather and my family has allergy problems too these days, so it not freaking me out (yet). Worried about what other symptoms may pop up as I go even lower.

 

Also, thanks so much for your good heart and sticking around in this forum!!

[[no...]]

Hey Ptsdmiracle,

 

I steered clear of over-the-counter antihistamines. I just didn't want anything else in the mix because I wanted to be sure I understood what the Mirtazapine was doing. The low-histamine diet was key because I did note when I ate strawberries or tomato products or other high histamine foods (or histamine liberators), I would react very poorly. Lots of sneezing and restless legs and even an uptick in anxiety symptoms.

 

One thing I did use was tart cherry extract. That has a compound in it called quercetin. It is a mast cell stabilizer. That really helped me a lot. I used it during the tail end of mirt withdrawal. I started with tart cherry extract in liquid form, but then switched to a quercetin/vitamin c capsulized formula. That helped me a ton. It helped the allergy symptoms and also helped me sleep even better.

 

I knew the mirt was pounding the histamine receptors because as I got lower, I noticed I'd be going into these wave periods in the spring and fall coinciding with the allergens that were released at those times. The quercetin really knocked that down. I'd suggest looking into it to see if it is something that would help. There are a lot of companies offering the quercetin and tart cherry. I just went with the good reviews when I chose mine.

 

And just to note, when I jumped from the mirtazapine, I also dropped the quercetin without any issues whatsoever. That was nice Something I actually didn't have to taper, imagine that!?! I've had enough tapering and am glad it is done.

 

Thank you for the kind words I'm glad to help if I can.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[[bl...]]

When do  you recommend to taper remeron  in the Benzo withdrawal process ?

[[Ja...]]

How long have you been off benzos? Are you healed? How long have you been on Remeron and what is your current dose?

[[bl...]]

I have been off Benzos for 16 months and does is 15 Mg mert since 2017

[[Ja...]]

It is best if you wait until you are mostly healed from benzo withdrawal. The timeline on that varies greatly from person to person so only you would know that. If you are then a taper of no more than 10 percent every 4 weeks is recommended. So the best bet is to procure liquid mirtazapine if you haven’t already and make the first cut to 13.5 mg and hold for four weeks to see how you do. Then you will be able to adjust the speed to faster or slower depending on your results.

[[bo...]]

The other night I fourthed a 7.5 milligram Remeron tablet. It definitely made me groggy and tired within like half an hour. So it would have been a dose of like 1.8 milligrams or so. I can't believe how much the drug affected me by fourthing the lowest therapeutic dose. How is that even possible?  I slept pretty good considering I had my first day of work. And I felt pretty good as the day went on. But then at night I started having this sensation that I was going to pass out or fall over if I turned my head to quickly. If I continued taking 1.8 milligrams nightly would that sensation go away? 

[[no...]]

The other night I fourthed a 7.5 milligram Remeron tablet. It definitely made me groggy and tired within like half an hour. So it would have been a dose of like 1.8 milligrams or so. I can't believe how much the drug affected me by fourthing the lowest therapeutic dose. How is that even possible?  I slept pretty good considering I had my first day of work. And I felt pretty good as the day went on. But then at night I started having this sensation that I was going to pass out or fall over if I turned my head to quickly. If I continued taking 1.8 milligrams nightly would that sensation go away?

 

Hey boomboxboy21,

 

Dizziness/disequilibrium is definitely one of the side effects of Mirt. Though I didn't have it at the dose you were at. It disappeared for me around the 5mg mark. It's hard to say if that symptom would go away with regular use or not.

 

But in reading your post, it made me remember a thought I had had in the early days of taking mirt which was that had I known better, I would have used the mirtazapine on an as-needed basis. As you noted, you achieved the anti-anxiety and sleep effects without it needing any build-up in your system. That makes mirtazapine different than other ADs. Most ADs need a build-up time in the system. Mirtazapine doesn't work that way.

 

At doses 15mg and well below, the effects are anti-anxiety - or anxiolytic. Anything above 15mg acts as an AD. As you wisely perceived, you are taking 1.8mg which is well below what most doctors would tell you is a therapeutic dose. I knew of no doctors who would even consider treating me with less than 7.5mg.

 

But yes, in short, the sensation you describe is a noted side effect of Mirt. And you could consider using Mirt as needed once or twice per week to cool down your nervous system and deliver you some cred sleep.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

 

Sidenote: For you boomboxboy21, taking occasional doses of Mirt might be an option as you are not using it regularly. But for any (as had been my case) taking Mirt on a regular basis, doses should not be skipped nor alternated. Once you are on it daily, it should be tapered by monthly dose reductions. Skipping or alternating days can severely disrupt the nervous system.

[[bo...]]

Thanks, now-power. I find it crazy that this had such an effect on me at such a low dose. It was basically like taking an antihistamine, which I did a week ago. Can you using on an as-needed basis cause one to kindle?

 

You had the feeling of dizziness/disequilibrium until you hit 5 mgs?

[[no...]]

Thanks, now-power. I find it crazy that this had such an effect on me at such a low dose. It was basically like taking an antihistamine, which I did a week ago. Can you using on an as-needed basis cause one to kindle?

 

You had the feeling of dizziness/disequilibrium until you hit 5 mgs?

 

It's wild, right? It's not considered a "therapeutic dose." But I know I was affected by it. I think many of us with sensitized nervous systems are. I'm guessing even those without sensitized nervous systems are.

 

The dizziness was worst for me around the 7.5mg mark and by the time I hit 5mg, it had largely subsided. I would have cycles of it again, but I don't believe I experienced any dizziness below the 3mg level.

 

I can't answer the kindling question because of course, I didn't try doing this - I'd only thought of doing so - but I was already on a daily, and high dose so it wasn't appropriate for me. But one good reminder is this isn't hitting the same receptor sites as the benzos. This isn't the GABA system. It affects the adrenergic and the histamine receptor sites. I am very confident that for myself at least, my GABA system was healing from the benzo damage the whole time I was on the mirtazapine. I refrained from, and continue to refrain from, valerian, alcohol, and any other substance that affects the GABA system. I'm super-protective of my brain and nervous system now.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[[bo...]]

One person on Facebook said that Remeron works on 24 receptor sites. I don't know what to do. I feel pretty lousy again today. No emotions. Just feeling weird in the head every second.

[[Ja...]]

So I just took my fourth dose at 13.5 and today oddly I was mostly symptom free. I think eggs might be an anxiety trigger for me now. I had another ramp up in anxiety after lunch again today and I had an egg sandwich just like yesterday. I will avoid eggs tomorrow and see if I have no symptoms. But overall today was smooth sailing. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

[[ju...]]

could somebody describe me stability?i am still experiencing the bad anxiety and some pain although i have been on 8th day for stability. does a feeling of low anxiety or a little pain really come in some days like 15th or 20th day?i feel myself very tired and painful with some itching problems. what do you say about?

[[Ja...]]

Hey June,

              I am still new to tapering this particular drug so I can’t speak from experience. However I have read the majority of this 182 page thread amongst many others while planning how to proceed with my own taper. It seems after overdoing it with a drastic cut like who recently did it is not uncommon to take a month or more to stabilize. I remember reading that Dave made just a 2 mg cut from 9.5 to 7.5 mgs some years ago and he reported that it took him over 19 days to stabilize. And if I recall correctly you dropped to 13.5 mg and then straight to 7.5 ans them back up to 12 mg? So even if you did not ever make that overly ambitious drop you still made over a 10 percent drop from 13.5 to 12 mg. A 10 percent drop from 13.5 being 12.15 mg. Sometimes that small amount can add a few days onto stabilization. I’m sorry you feel so lousy. You will stabilize. Also, research low histamine diets. It seems following one helps reduce the symptoms of mirt withdrawal.

[[no...]]

could somebody describe me stability?i am still experiencing the bad anxiety and some pain although i have been on 8th day for stability. does a feeling of low anxiety or a little pain really come in some days like 15th or 20th day?i feel myself very tired and painful with some itching problems. what do you say about?

 

Stability is going to be subjective - it is going to be individual to you. For me, stability never meant perfect - it meant tolerable and consistent. If there is one thing withdrawal taught me (and it taught me a lot), it was to look at discomfort in terms of levels, and it taught me to deal with higher levels of discomfort. And when my symptoms seemed less, and stayed less for many days, I interpreted that as stability.

 

juneight, you are trying to stabilize after many changes if I remember correctly. It may take longer for you to reach that initial stabilization. Jack37 is correct. But after that, after you reach the initial stabilization, you should develop a pattern that you will come to recognize.

 

All this stuff takes time.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[[ju...]]

thank you for your incredible support so that you remember the facts that i have gone through recently. jack and dave, you are alright, but my wish to drop from 13,5 to 7.5(and it would follow 3.75 mg if i didnt feel discomfort) is because of the short term usage. "the faith of quitting, if i should, it must be at starting". there is no need to explain my process again. i started remeron for the second time to feel a little comfort after having CTs lots of ADs. after starting remeron this time, when i didn't see any improvement on my general condition and thought it was already a source of anxiety, i thought to ct, but i couldnt, instead i tried to drop 13.5 to 7.5. but i think there is a fact that i forgot that my short term ADs usages may not be counted CTs, but they really damaged my brain's stabilizitaion process. In other words, blaming remeron totally for the things which i lived is not honesty.

 

jack, seeing that you really examined almost the whole posts , what kind of a taper plan do you consider to follow?

[[Ja...]]

June,

        I am going to make 10 percent cuts. However, I plan to make 10 percent of original dose cuts. So I will go 15 to 13.5 to 12 to 10.5 and so on. I seem to be doing well after my first cut despite not taking the time to stabilize on liquid before starting like I originally said I would. In other words my first dose at 13.5 mg was also my first dose on liquid compound. I have not been asymptomtic however. The day after my cut I felt decent. Friday was interesting to say the least. I was talking to my boss Friday morning when all of a sudden his voice started to get louder and my vision locked onto his face and the rest of the room blurred and it seemed he was getting closer and closer to me. I didn’t react and didn’t say anything about it but it was freaky for sure. Lasted maybe 30 seconds and then just like it came on, swoosh, it just went away. I though oh boy what have I done. Lol. But it never happened again. I have had chest pains, loss of feeling in random body parts, ear pains, mild burning sensations, extreme crushing fatigue for hours on end that just mysteriously lifts out of nowhere with no discernable pattern. Saturday was awesome. I worked all day in an awesome mood, laughing and joking around and feeling great no symptoms at all and then yesterday I was beat and when I got home from work if I didn’t know about mirt withdrawal I would have sworn I had the flu. I was so sick it was unbelievable and then all of a sudden around dinner time it just started to taper off. This morning I feel decent. I’m off from work today and tomorrow. I feel pretty much fine. Still some minor residual flu like symptoms but I’m out in the garage working on my bike which I already had out for a ride today. And I know in an hour I might be bedridden. But I am learning that just because I am bedridden in an hour it doesn’t mean I won’t be feeling great and out shopping and hour after that. This withdrawal is very very strange and not at all like the benzo withdrawal that I went through. In benzo withdrawal if I had a symtom pop up it would be there for weeks or even months. This is not so bad so far but time will tell. I am going to wait the four weeks out regardless to make sure there are no second or third wave symptoms so I really understand what I am working with here. I love riding motorcycles and I have actually used that as my guage throughout this process. Early in benzo withdrawal I was so sick that I sold my bike convinced that I was so damaged I would never ride again. I remember the buyer being here and signing the paperwork over and I could not wait for him to leave because I was so weak and dizzy and shaky and sick that I just needed to go in and sit down. Sometimes thoughout this process I get down and think I am not getting better. It is hard to remember pain so we think we are still as bad as we were. But 7 months ago I couldn’t walk and today I rode my motorcycle. That is how I know when my mind is playing tricks on me. Of course I am getting better. So when I think I am not healing I force myself to take a quick ride. That is how I prove to myself I am doing okay. Yesterday I was too sick to ride. Today I’m not. I will use two things to control my taper. Firstly, if I have to call out of work due to symptoms, that is one hundred percent a sign to slow down. Second if I am finding myself unable to ride more days than not then I will slow down. Through this mental health process we need some sort of love or hobby to guage where we are mentally. If you don’t have interest in the things we normally enjoy that is a mental sign of going too fast. If we can’t get to work and physically do the things we need to do to survive then that is a physical sign. And don’t forget that they are both equally important.

So I will drop 10 percent of original dose every 4 weeks and if I start missing work or rides then I will slow down to 10 percent of last dose used. That is my current plan which is extremely flexible.

[[Ja...]]

Oh one more thing. Because it seems that the medical community had done very little actual research on mirtazapine there is very little information out there on this drug that isn’t anecdotal. However, the anecdotal evidence shows very little correlation between length of time on the drug and severity of withdrawal symtoms. Some take it for 10 years and cold turkey symtom free. Some take it for 10 days and spend 3 years tapering. So don’t be fooled into thinking you should be able to come off easily because you did not take it long. Unfortunately there just isn’t any evidence to back up that claim. Also, you would not be the first person to find that they were on it once or twice before and cold turkeyed with no problem who found themselves in a much different position when they tried to come off a second or third time.