Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group

[[Mi...]]

Hi I’m semi new here and not sure how to use this forum so plz let me know if u can’t or can see this or if it was posted in the wrong thread

 

I am currently tapering a benzos I went  from 2mgs to .4 I am also on 30 mgs of remeron

I think the rem might be causing issues but I’m not 100% sure

Why I think this?

About 3 weeks ago I made a mistake in my benzo taper and cut more then I should of .. what I cut in 1 to 2 months I cut in 5 days 🤦🏻‍♀️ That was my mistake now when I take my rem I get all these weird sxs as I try to sleep but I also notice these sxs more when I’m in a hormone shift .. the rem doesn’t always cause sxs after I take it it seems more when I’m in a wave or I’m in a hormone shift but now I’m confused as to what to taper first... thanks

[[Pt...]]

Good morning all

 

Yesterday was my first time using liquid rem (self made) and went down to 3mg from 3.75. Very toxic sleep, but not THAT much different than the type of sleep I was already getting, just more uncomfortableness weird ways. At least I fell asleep....

 

Hope everyone has a good day 

[[ja...]]

Hi Mialiliana, I would definitely taper the benzo first and then give yourself some time to heal before attempting the Remeron. I waited until I was 28 months free from the benzo before I started the Remeron. I’m glad I did. Unfortunately getting off these drugs takes a lot of time for some.

 

Hi PTSD!

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[No...]]

Hi everyone, over the past month I've reduced the amount of daily Mirtazipine by 2.5mg down to 12.5mg from 15mg. The first week was the worst, but I'm ok now. I will stay at this dose for another month or so, then reduce by another 2.5mg using my pill cutter.

 

The main thing that's bothering me at the moment is menopause sweats. I'm 53 and stopped taking the mini pill a few months ago. Now everything seems to have kicked off, but that's probably for another forum board!!  I hate the menopause and I'm coming back as a man in my next life!!

[[ja...]]

Lol NoMorePills, coming back as a man sounds like a plan. Hang in there. Sounds like you’re doing good with your taper.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[Pt...]]

How's everyone doing on the mirt taper? Currently day 5 on 3mg, my sleep is sooooo weird. Very choppy, and waking up multiple times during the night with lots of dreams. Is this benzo withdrawal sleep or is it mirt?.. Like super light sleep. I dream about stuff I don't wanna dream about, but when I wake up I immediately fall back to that dream, like 30 times. I don't know if I should be happy about being about to fall back asleep or angyr that I keep having unpleasant dreams lol.

[[sh...]]

Hi NJstrength,

 

Sorry, for delay in response.  As for herbs that interact, I am not taking any of the ones you mention except magnesium.  That seems okay. 

 

I've done a lot of research on this because I have had a number of problems with supplements seemingly interacting with the mirt.  Numerous medications, nutrients, and herbal therapies are metabolized through the cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzyme system. Within the CPYP450 enzyme system there are numerous sub systems that different drugs travel or use.  Mirtazapine uses CYP1A2, CYP3A4/5 and CYP2D6.  This system can be inhibited or induced by drugs.  These alterations can be clinically significant producing drug-drug or herb/drug interaction that may cause adverse reactions or therapeutic failures.  What does that mean?  In layman's terms, if a herb or drug inhibits the enzyme pathways, it slows the metabolism of your mirtazapine down thereby making the drug build up in your system.  This can increase it's effectiveness or lead to too much in your system causing unwanted side effects.  This has happen to me with a garlic supplement and a cheese I eat from Trader Joes.  There is also the possibilty of an herb/ drug/suppplement acting as an inducer.  This is the opposite.  The inducing agent would then speed up the mirtazapine metabolism which would equate to feeling like you had less in your system causing the opposite reaction like withdrawl symptoms.  This has happened to me as well.  Cruciferous vegetables are a known inducer of the CYP1A2 pathway which mirt uses.  I have to be careful with those or I can feel like I took a big cut in my Mirt the day after.  Having said all that, it may not impact some people as much depending on your genetic make-up.  I took a genetics test which revealed that I am an ultra rapid metabolizer of CYP1A2 so any additional inducing is not good for me.  I am also a slow metabolizer of CYP2D6.  So both of these genetic SNP's could play into things going WONKY  for me with foods, herbs, etc. 

 

I'm sure there are plenty of people who take supplements with mirtazapine just fine, but I am Miss Sensitive and everything seems to impact me.  Now I research an herb before I try it to see if it inhibits or induces CYP450.  All you have to do is google something like this:  Does garlic inhibit CYP450?  A bunch of pubmed studies come up.  I've learned a lot both by reading and by feeling like a lab rat with my body. 

 

You can read more about it here:

 

https://www.drugguide.com/ddo/view/Davis-Drug-Guide/109519/all/The_Cytochrome_P450_System:_What_Is_It_and_Why_Should_I_Care_

 

 

 

[[sh...]]

Good morning everyone!  Today is day 15 of my cut down to 0.028grams and I’m getting hit with some nausea and off balance feelings. Not sure how many days I’ll have to deal with this. There really is no rhyme or reason to this withdrawal. I feel just a little shaky too. Thank goodness I’m only tapering 5% a month. I felt ok up to today. Lower back a little sore also. If I was cutting every two weeks these cuts would catch up to me. Once a month is plenty. I can only hope once I’m off that I’m not feeling too bad from stopping. I guess I’m hoping as long as I’m going slow that I’ll be ok.

 

 

Hope everyone else is doing better. Hi drad dog!

Good luck Tom!

Hi PTSD, Sharkie NJ,Brave!

 

Where’s my friend Forty? I hope you are ok.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

 

Hi Jackie,

 

Sorry for your nausea and balance issues.  All in all it sounds like you are doing pretty good managing your taper and I'm so glad for you.  I've been having a bit of a hard time this last month.  I keep feeling like I am in a new kind of withdrawal (really bad agitation and jump out of the skin feelings, along with worsening of my 2 24/7 symptoms).  It feels like I'm tapering the Mirt, but I'm not yet.  I tried crossing over to the aurobindo brand in April when TEVA became unavailable, but was feeling like it was causing digestive distress symptoms after about a month on it.  Back to TEVA backstock, but since then I've just not felt as good on it.  Been in a good day, bad day pattern for the last month.  Can't make sense of it.  Is it possible to be in tolerance withdrawal with Mirtazapine??

 

I'm cheering for you with each cut.  Take care.

 

Sharkie

 

[[ja...]]

Good morning Sharkie and all other buddies. Sharkie I’m not sure about the tolerance from Mirtezapine but my guess is that you could be. I am trying to get of this drug as soon as I can. Teva no longer is manufacturing the Mirtezapine. I’ve spoken with the company and my pharmacy. My pharmacy got all the Teva Mirtezapine they could get for me. Luckily I have enough stash to get off from it. I have said before that I simply couldn’t tolerate the other manufacturers. My heart breaks for anyone being switched Willy nilly on these drugs. Some people may be able to handle it but many can’t.

 

I cut last night down to 0.027grams and really debated doing it before vacation but decided to go for it. I hope I didn’t make a mistake. This cut was smaller, about 2% so I should be good. I’ll hold a month. One of the biggest things I’ve noticed with this Mirtezapine taper is that if I would cut every 2 weeks that my cuts would catch up. I’m usually hit around day 8 and then again around day 20 or in that range. I’ve noticed my breathing and digestive issues to be affected more as I’m going lower.

 

I hope my journey will help others. I’ve read and reread this whole blog many times and learned from others. I can’t imagine not having this forum since trying to rid myself of these nasty drugs.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[sh...]]

Hey Jackie,

 

Have a great vacatoin.  I hope your cut does not cause you any problems. 

 

Sharkie

 

[[ja...]]

Hi Sharkie and thank you!

 

So I cut Thursday night and Friday was hell, bad anxiety. Saturday was better and now today Sunday is off again. This anxiety is brutal but I’m pushing through. I’m just so darn shaky all the time. I hope everyone else is moving forward and not suffering. Never again. They say never say never but I’m saying it!

 

Jackie :smitten:

[[br...]]

 

Jackie . Never is good . I say it every single day as in ' I will never again take any medication without checking and re- checking side effects first' .

 

Here is another never . I will never ever put my trust blindly in any Dr or person passing themselves off as a medical know all.  Fool me once shame on you . Fool me twice shame on me .

 

My body is a blessed Temple and is capable of healing itself if given half the chance . No more poisoned pills or apples from evil queens. It's back to nature for this puppy .

 

Have the best day possible and don't let the buggers get you down .  :smitten:

[[Pt...]]

I agree with never!

 

Cut to 2.25mg 2 days ago. So far no uptick, no improvements either. Sleep is still toxic,but at least I fall asleep. 

[[ja...]]

Hi Brave and PTSD, good luck with your cut ptsd. Please keep us posted how you are doing. I hope you sail through this fairly easy.

 

Brave, I 100% agree with everything you said. Sadly I don’t trust anyone anymore. I’m trying to stay as far away from the medical people as I can and I hate that it has come to this. Hope you are doing better.

 

Today has been another hard day. I am thinking after my vacation I’m going to crush my pill and weigh the powder for my dose. I’m concerned that by just cutting and weighing that I’m not getting the drug dispersed evenly. I’ve been dreading doing this because it will mean I will have to weigh every night the powder and no I’m not switching to liquid. Anyway I’m so tired of tapering these drugs.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

[[Ba...]]

Sharkie and all,

 

Hi!  I don't know my genetic anything, would it be useful to get?  All I can say as was tapering clon. uneventfully until added mirtaz for 6 wks, low does.  Felt bad on it, stopped it... bedridden and a mess.

 

Still a mess tho stomach is ok now and things have lessened a little.

 

How do I know if this is mirtazapine CT (2.5 years later???) or if it is the benzos now on?

 

Thank you!

[[Th...]]

Hi guys, I am considering going on Remeron as I am having a very difficult time with monophobia and agoraphobia. I have children and feeling like I cant cope. Also having GI issues.

 

I jumped off Valium last November. I know this is a support group for those getting off, but I thought it would give me a sense of side effects as well.

 

Did the Remeron ever initially help you with panic, or do you regret ever trying it?

[[NJ...]]

I am still on remeron (and klonopin). I feel the remeron really did help with my stomach issues ... I was vomiting constantly. I didn't have panic so can't comment on that. I am curious as it is an antidepressant not anti-anxiety so curious why your doctor is recommending it. Also, what dosage? At lower doses, it is just really sedating, it took me a long time ... many months ... to get past the fatigue.

[[Th...]]

I am still on remeron (and klonopin). I feel the remeron really did help with my stomach issues ... I was vomiting constantly. I didn't have panic so can't comment on that. I am curious as it is an antidepressant not anti-anxiety so curious why your doctor is recommending it. Also, what dosage? At lower doses, it is just really sedating, it took me a long time ... many months ... to get past the fatigue.

 

Hey NJstrength,

 

SSRIs are the first line for anxiety, I tried a few and they were too activating, was jumping out of my skin and they GAVE me panic attacks. The Pdoc suggested trying Remeron as it is supposed to be good for anxiety and sleep at low doses.

 

Honestly I am med free now and I am scared to go on another med, she (pdoc) told me it could cause weight gain as well, I gained weight on the benzos, so this scares me. But I am tired of loving in fear all the time  :'(

[[No...]]

I personally think this med saved my life in the spot I was in at the time. The sleep is amazing and I also feel it acting like a mild anxiolytic at lower doses, and it's made my withdraw from Valium possible / way more tolerable to where I can remain fully functioning throughout the taper. I take a 3.75 dose before bedtime and 3.75 in the middle of the night if I need it (I do most nights as the insomnia can be tough to cut through for me).

 

I know I'll have to taper off of this too at some point, but I think if you enlist the help of a compounding pharmacist and do it GRADUALLY (like daily liquid micro taper style), I think that'll likely give you the best experience should you choose to go this route.

[[sh...]]

Hi Brave and PTSD, good luck with your cut ptsd. Please keep us posted how you are doing. I hope you sail through this fairly easy.

 

Brave, I 100% agree with everything you said. Sadly I don’t trust anyone anymore. I’m trying to stay as far away from the medical people as I can and I hate that it has come to this. Hope you are doing better.

 

Today has been another hard day. I am thinking after my vacation I’m going to crush my pill and weigh the powder for my dose. I’m concerned that by just cutting and weighing that I’m not getting the drug dispersed evenly. I’ve been dreading doing this because it will mean I will have to weigh every night the powder and no I’m not switching to liquid. Anyway I’m so tired of tapering these drugs.

 

Jackie  :smitten:

 

Hi Brave and Jackie,

 

Jackie.  I'm so sorry for your uptick in symptoms.  Praying these settle down for you... especially the anxiety.  Was anxiety the reason for drugs in the first place?  It was for me and I am wondering how coping without drugs will fair.  Even the 10% cut I made to reduce unwanted side effects and the foods/supplements I tapered that were inhibiting the drug have left me pretty symptomatic. 

 

I am trynig to find a new doctor.  Like you Brave, I went to Madill when things got tough and my regular P-Doc was mystified, but Madill is now retired.  I have my GP prescribing the Mirt now.  Been thinking I should find a new Pdoc to aide in the eventual taper off this, but I'm wondering if I will really get any help worth paying for.  I went to someone twice recently to begin the process and while she did listen to my whole sordid tale and did not invalidate she also didn't really validate it either.  She was kind of neutral about it and then said she wanted to prescribe BHRT therapy.  It's her thing along with psych meds.  Told her I had to think about it.  Either of you been down that road?    At least it was better than my other two doctor experiences who told me (referring to my withdrawl symptoms) that:

1. it was impossible to be in withdrawl longer than a month

2. I've never had a patient like you.  All my other patients would be ready for their next cut or off the drug by now.

3. You must have unresolved issues that you've never dealt with and it is all surfacing now.  I'm referring you to Stanford Anxiety clinic.  Oh and by the way, that will be $10,0000. 

 

What is your doctor experience, Jackie?  Do you have a prescribing P-doc now who supports your taper?  How about you Brave, when you were in the process?  I'm so hesitant to find someone new, but feeling I might need the support if things get tough.

[[sh...]]

Hi guys, I am considering going on Remeron as I am having a very difficult time with monophobia and agoraphobia. I have children and feeling like I cant cope. Also having GI issues.

 

I jumped off Valium last November. I know this is a support group for those getting off, but I thought it would give me a sense of side effects as well.

 

Did the Remeron ever initially help you with panic, or do you regret ever trying it?

 

Hi Optiimst,

 

You are welcome here!  What better place to ask your questions, then those tapering. 

The Remeron does help with anxiety and sleep at low doses.  It does have side effects for me including weight gain (but I needed that), drowsy, fatigue feelings, hard to get going in the morning and joint and muscle pain and stiffness.  It feels much stronger to me than an SSRI in haulting some of the Benzo withdawal - especially the anxiety and insomnia.

 

Is your anxiety an underlying issue you've always had or is it from discontinuation of the Valium and continuation of symtpoms?  If underlying, I might try other methods first to see if you can get relief. 

 

Herein, lies the problem.  At some point, when you want off of this drug, you will be dealing once again with the unresolved anxiety which could be exacerbated by withdawing from the Mirtazapine.  A slow taper will hopefully minimize, but if you can try to resolve the anxiety through other methods first, its worth a try before starting an AD.  Supplementation was problematic for me during my taper and acute so I didn't have much wiggle room for trying supps or herbs.  That said, it is certainly understandable that you want relief and better coping skills for yourself, kids and family.  I'm sorry for what a hard time you are having.  May God guide you in your decision making process as to what is truly best for you.

[[sh...]]

Sharkie and all,

 

Hi!  I don't know my genetic anything, would it be useful to get?  All I can say as was tapering clon. uneventfully until added mirtaz for 6 wks, low does.  Felt bad on it, stopped it... bedridden and a mess.

 

Still a mess tho stomach is ok now and things have lessened a little.

 

How do I know if this is mirtazapine CT (2.5 years later???) or if it is the benzos now on?

 

Thank you!

 

Hi Barbara,

 

It is hard to say.  From your signature, it looks like you are still on a few things (V, K, Ambien or maybe Lyrica?)

 

I can only speak from my own experience which says that all the drugs, how they were tapered or not, reinstatements, etc. all impacted my CNS and the healing or worsening effects.  How long healing will take from each of those decisions is sometimes a mystery, but I believe it will happen.  At the time, you really don't know much better or are even given bad advice from a doctor and you do the best you can with what you know. 

 

The Mirtazapine CT is 2.5 years behind you.  I think that is a positive!  Since you are still tapering, healing may take longer, but be hopeful that it will come.

 

As for Genetics Testing, you need a doctor to order and interpret results.  For me, it was helpful because I have a few SNP's that make certain drugs react differently in my body.  Unfortunately, I did the test after I was on both the Valium and Mirt. so did not switch anything, but at least I knew why certain things were happening on the drugs I was on.  The company is Genomind and it is called a Genecept Assay Report.  I'm sure there are other companies too.  The nice thing about this company is if the doctor you use doesn't know much about how to interpret the results they can do a conference phone call with you, your doctor and a representative from the company.  I did this.  The person from Genomind was super knowledgeable.  She walked us through every part of my report and in layman's terms explained what it meant.  She also recommended a few supplements that could help. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Sharkie

 

[[Th...]]

Hi Optiimst,

 

You are welcome here!  What better place to ask your questions, then those tapering. 

The Remeron does help with anxiety and sleep at low doses.  It does have side effects for me including weight gain (but I needed that), drowsy, fatigue feelings, hard to get going in the morning and joint and muscle pain and stiffness.  It feels much stronger to me than an SSRI in haulting some of the Benzo withdawal - especially the anxiety and insomnia.

 

Is your anxiety an underlying issue you've always had or is it from discontinuation of the Valium and continuation of symtpoms?  If underlying, I might try other methods first to see if you can get relief. 

 

Herein, lies the problem.  At some point, when you want off of this drug, you will be dealing once again with the unresolved anxiety which could be exacerbated by withdawing from the Mirtazapine.  A slow taper will hopefully minimize, but if you can try to resolve the anxiety through other methods first, its worth a try before starting an AD.  Supplementation was problematic for me during my taper and acute so I didn't have much wiggle room for trying supps or herbs.  That said, it is certainly understandable that you want relief and better coping skills for yourself, kids and family.  I'm sorry for what a hard time you are having.  May God guide you in your decision making process as to what is truly best for you.

 

Thank you for replying  I had panic attacks before, which is why I went on the benzos in the first place. However, I feel different after withdrawal. I can't seem to handle any emotions, its hard to watch TV or listen to music even. When I listened to a moving piece of music it used to give me goosebumps and I felt great. Now anything that makes me emotional makes me panic.

I also have intense pain in my diaphragm area caused by the intense emotions, particularly anger and worry/fear. Its almost as if my emotions get "stuck" there. For example if I get angry it could last for hours or even days.

 

I went to a therapist but couldn't handle talking to her because bringing up anything emotional is torture for me. I am wondering if being sedated for 7 years has something to do with this.

 

I like the idea of supplements, I did go to a holistic doctor and she recommended Gaba, but I am wondering if taking it is a bad idea as our gaba receptors are trying to heal?

 

 

 

[[Ba...]]

Hi guys, I am considering going on Remeron as I am having a very difficult time with monophobia and agoraphobia. I have children and feeling like I cant cope. Also having GI issues.

 

I jumped off Valium last November. I know this is a support group for those getting off, but I thought it would give me a sense of side effects as well.

 

Did the Remeron ever initially help you with panic, or do you regret ever trying it?

 

Remeron did me in.  Put me into acute right then and there... well, was sick on it THEN I stopped and in acute.

 

I also could not take ADs at all. ack

[[Ba...]]

Sharkie and all,

 

Hi!  I don't know my genetic anything, would it be useful to get?  All I can say as was tapering clon. uneventfully until added mirtaz for 6 wks, low does.  Felt bad on it, stopped it... bedridden and a mess.

 

Still a mess tho stomach is ok now and things have lessened a little.

 

How do I know if this is mirtazapine CT (2.5 years later???) or if it is the benzos now on?

 

Thank you!

 

Hi Barbara,

 

It is hard to say.  From your signature, it looks like you are still on a few things (V, K, Ambien or maybe Lyrica?)

 

I can only speak from my own experience which says that all the drugs, how they were tapered or not, reinstatements, etc. all impacted my CNS and the healing or worsening effects.  How long healing will take from each of those decisions is sometimes a mystery, but I believe it will happen.  At the time, you really don't know much better or are even given bad advice from a doctor and you do the best you can with what you know. 

 

The Mirtazapine CT is 2.5 years behind you.  I think that is a positive!  Since you are still tapering, healing may take longer, but be hopeful that it will come.

 

As for Genetics Testing, you need a doctor to order and interpret results.  For me, it was helpful because I have a few SNP's that make certain drugs react differently in my body.  Unfortunately, I did the test after I was on both the Valium and Mirt. so did not switch anything, but at least I knew why certain things were happening on the drugs I was on.  The company is Genomind and it is called a Genecept Assay Report.  I'm sure there are other companies too.  The nice thing about this company is if the doctor you use doesn't know much about how to interpret the results they can do a conference phone call with you, your doctor and a representative from the company.  I did this.  The person from Genomind was super knowledgeable.  She walked us through every part of my report and in layman's terms explained what it meant.  She also recommended a few supplements that could help. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Sharkie

 

Thanks, Shark. Actually not on Lyrica...  have rarely taken like about 15 mg if desperate to sleep.  Sleep my pre-existing and worse problem.

 

Those tests... does insurance cover and what sort of dr  can order??

 

thanks.