Anybody had bad experiences with daily titration (micro tapering)?

[[bu...]]

I chose this method because 1) I don't drink milk, and water titration seemed too uncertain.  Klonopin (clthatonazepam) does not dissolve in water, but instead clings to larger molecules like fat in milk. I bought Ora-plus - a suspension fluid.

 

Everyone is different, and it may be that I am someone who wasn't going to have a bad taper, but the nightmares (and other symptoms) in the beginning, have not come back.

 

 

 

Like you, I don't drink or like milk

 

I also tried water tritration, and like you, was concerned that actual concentrations varied from dose to dose, because it really is not in solution.

 

I bought a pint of Ora Plus, but have not used it. Again, it holds the benzo (diazepam in my case) in suspension, not a solution

 

So I am still concerned that there will dose to dose inconsistancies.  The fact  that its in suspension doesn't seem to offer any assurance that the misture is uniform  Does the Ora Plus mixture seem to be consistant for you?

[[bu...]]

For those of you that have tried unsuccessfully to register at BDR, open the FAQ on the home page, and the last item is "...send us an email".

 

I sent an email, got a response from the site administrator to try again, and the next time it worked.

[[fi...]]

I am using Rice Milk for my Klonopin titration and all is going well.  I haven't seen any Klonopin particles that have not dissolved in it.  Almond Milk could be another option.

 

Regards ...

 

fg

[[pr...]]

Benzos don't dissolve in milk any more than they do in anything else.  (Well, other than solvents that you mostly can't consume.)

 

The whole "fat soluble" business is misleading.  If they dissolved in fat we'd all be titrating them in olive oil.

 

Some benzos are "lipophilic" meaning that in a solution that contains both polar liquids (like water) and nonpolar liquids (like fat) they will tend to cluster closer to the nonpolar particles. 

 

But in milk, or water, or whatever the heck you use, it's a suspension, they're not dissolved.  They are ALL suspensions.

 

Given that Ora-Plus is specifically designed as a suspending/dispersing medium for all kinds of drugs, lipophilic or otherwise, and it has been tested and proven and used millions of times with many different drugs, I would think it's probably just fine for making a benzo suspension, and probably superior to milk (which is highly variable in consistency and as far as I know has never been subjected to tests to check its suitability for dispersing and carrying meds).

 

Personally I use water for all my meds.  I just make sure they're well and evenly dispersed before measuring out my dose.  Since water's clear, you can see visually how well even the most microscopic particles are dispersed.  Even if for no other reason, I personally would not use any kind of cloudy liquid like milk, because you can't really see visually what you've got.

 

I also like water because it doesn't require refrigeration.

 

That's me.  Lots of people love milk.  I did find one study on the Internet that indicated that diazepam might cling to fat globules, so homogenized milk might help disperse it if that's the case.  I haven't found anything about clonazepam.  As far as I know those are the only two benzos that people seem to frequently report doing better with milk.

 

I'm tapering Valium and Xanax and I use water for both.  There's no particular advantage to milk for Xanax that I know of (it's not lipophilic).  The disadvantage of having to deal with refrigeration all the time outweighs the potential advantages of using milk, for me, with the Valium, at the low dose I'm tapering and as slowly as I'm tapering it.

 

As far as the bottles, you can buy small glass bottles on the Internet.  Do a search under "small glass bottles" and you should be able to find lots of options.  Just be sure to rinse the bottles really well and drink the rinse water so you get all the drug out of there.

 

I know it sounds like a lot of hassle and a lot to think about, but once you get it together and get into the routine it gets a lot easier and it's so worth it!

[[bu...]]

Thanks for clearing that up!

[[jo...]]

My diazepam liquid from the chemist says diazepam oral solution.

[[...]]

http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/l/love/graphics-love-862871.gif

[[Ja...]]

Still nothing from BDR site yet!!!!!

[[jj...]]

Jason,

  Do what the above post says. Go to the FAQ's section and find the e-mail contact address. Send an e-mail to this address saying you have tried to register and you are wondering if they have you in their system. I have heard back from them. I am waiting to get guidance now on how to proceed.

Hope it works!

[[bu...]]

Still nothing from BDR site yet!!!!!

 

Did you send them an email, as I suggested above?  Worked for me.

[[Te...]]

Still nothing from BDR site yet!!!!!

 

Jason, I talked to Jana.....she told me you had been approved.  Try to log on.

 

Taz

[[Ja...]]

Tax, thanks so much I am able to log in now thanks to you, where should I post under what topic to, get help from jana?

 

Thanks

Jason

[[Re...]]

I registered a few days ago and sent an email yesterday.  I have not heard anything back.

[[mt...]]

Hi Guys

Just wanted to give you my "first hand" experience with Jana and BDR.  I initially intended to taper using Ashton but my Dr actually only uses titration!  He has found after years of helping people taper off of benzos that tiny daily cuts work better than the ones recommended by Ashton.  (and he had the Ashton Manual on his desk)  How lucky was I to find a DOC that was benzo savvy as well as experienced with titration.

 

So while he knew about tapering with tiny small DAILY cuts he had no real "method" for determining how much or little to cut each day.  I was googling around using the words titration and benzo tiny cuts etc and landed on BDR and discovered Jana.  It was in working with her that I was able to customize my taper to determine my cuts throughout my taper.  This process is an ONgoing work of art so to speak.  Jana does not post alot of the specifics as there are just too many details to be considered with EACH INDIVIDUAL.  The basis of her method is that EACH of us is UNIQUE and what works for one person may be a living hell for another.   She has other specifics where other drugs are being used as well certain foods that can slow or increase how one metabolizes benzos.  There is no way without writing her own book that her experience and knowledge can be put in one place for others to learn well enough to be successful.  BY successful I mean little or NO suffering as well as being benzo free.  Jana is NOT a big proponent of NO PAIN NO GAIN.  She in fact looks to avoid symptoms if at all possible. 

 

As for Karen at Benzofreedom she came on to BDR seeking help and Jana got her turned around.  In time she began to help Jana out on the forum as a moderator- to work as a GO BETWEEN as Jana was without an internet connection.  About this time I began to see some bad advice given on BDR and stopped sending folks over.  I was not sure what was happening but found out after that Jana was off site and Karen had begun just handing out advice without Jana's input.  At some point Karen left and started her own website but she is basically passing on what she learned from Jana BUT it is a very simplistic form of Jana's method.  I cannot believe she has the audacity to now sell what she learned from Jana with no acknowledgement.  I cannot understand the thinking as I am just SO THANKFUL for Jana and all the  TIME and energy she has given to me and SO many others.  It seems very unkind to treat Jana in that manner.

 

There are some "hiccups"on the site when registering.  And I know Jana is extremely busy from SO many folks heading over and asking for some assistance.  So patience is key but worth the wait.  In the meantime 3 words sum up what I used SLOW (meaning without causing increase in symptoms) PRECISE CONSISTENT.

 

Hope that sheds some light.  So happy so many of you are working with her and on your way!

Mimi

[[jj...]]

Hey Mimi,

  Yes I am still angry about Karen at BenzoFreedom and her using Jana's knowledge to make money off of others. I wish there was some way to alert somebody for others on her site who are suffering under her misguided advice now! However, I am learning now that you have to do your research and be very careful about where you get your information.

 

I only hope that more people become aware of those out there who are willing to take advantage of others who are suffering.

I fully understand Jana's need to keep her methods quite for the callous insensitive nature of those willing to exploit others. I believe in Karma and I think given enough time, people will figure out what Karen from Benzofreedom is up to!

 

Thank goodness for people looking out for their others on this site! I thank all of you for helping me realize that I was receiving advice from a scam artist!

[[jo...]]

It's worrying that some foods increase or decrease metabolism of valium.

 

 

[[Ti...]]

Yes, avoid cruciferous vegetables--this is what Jana told me.  Don't eat any brocolli, mustard greens, etc.  Look up "cruciferious vegetables" and avoid all those.  Also, NO grapefruit or grapefruit juice.  I am sure there is more.  I think she even mentioned char-broiled meat...

 

Once you are off the valium, you can eat all these to your heart's content

 

Tina

[[mt...]]

Don't worry just move ahead with great care and you will be fine.  Tina has pretty much addressed the major offenders.

FYI-Tina glad to see you were able to connect with Jana!

Mimi

[[jo...]]

Yes, avoid cruciferous vegetables--this is what Jana told me.  Don't eat any brocolli, mustard greens, etc.  Look up "cruciferious vegetables" and avoid all those.  Also, NO grapefruit or grapefruit juice.  I am sure there is more.  I think she even mentioned char-broiled meat...

 

Once you are off the valium, you can eat all these to your heart's content

 

Tina

Thank you.

You have to be so fussy in withdrawal, and I must admit it, sometimes I say, "To hel with it" and eat what I like.

[[In...]]

Ok,

 

I just PMed a member who I believe to be a member also of Benzodetoxrecovery as to how the heck to join.

 

First of all, I hope I haven't broken any rules here as that is certainly not my intention. I just wanted to get more info on the micro-tapering process, and joining this site seems HARD. I did follow all their procedures, but so far nothing. I don't know if persistence as in waiting is the key or what.

 

But I did send that PM, so that's the first issue. If I made an error/broke rules, I apologize. Do not desire to be banned from BB for this.

 

Secondly, what is the secret if there is one to joining this site also? Any advice on both concerns fully appreciated.

 

Intend

[[Te...]]

Hi Intend To Be Off,

 

There is no secret to joining BDR.  The board just has lousy software with many glitches, Jana is in the process of trying to correct that problem, now.  She is not ignoring you.....it's just not getting through to her.  Please try, again. 

 

Taz 

[[In...]]

Taz,

 

I did try several times last night. There is a number you have to use (they ask you to type it in), so when I tried again, it was a different number which I suppose meant I was a different person or something. It then stated that my userid and password were already in use by "someone else," and that this was a "problem."

 

I did e-mail that Scott Gonzales and got one back this AM asking which forum I was trying to join. So I e-mailed him back. I guess I will try the registration process again. Hope that number situation doesnt prevent me. I guess I should have written that down as I have no clue what the original number was. Maybe Ill use another e-mail as I have a couple. Thank you for your help. Any further advice appreciated.

 

Intend

[[jo...]]

Hi

 

That sounds really frustrating. I know it's annoying especially with benzo rage etc, but perservere. They're a great crowd over there.

I have not started microtapering yet but I will be soon.

[[In...]]

Journey,

 

Well, I generally haven't experienced any benzo rage; just regular annoyance and irritation. And that is part of my regular personality.

 

But yes, they are a good bunch over there, and I will keep trying.

 

Your advice, in any case, is appreciated.

 

Intend

[[zo...]]

As for Karen at Benzofreedom she came on to BDR seeking help and Jana got her turned around.  In time she began to help Jana out on the forum as a moderator- to work as a GO BETWEEN as Jana was without an internet connection.  About this time I began to see some bad advice given on BDR and stopped sending folks over.  I was not sure what was happening but found out after that Jana was off site and Karen had begun just handing out advice without Jana's input.  At some point Karen left and started her own website but she is basically passing on what she learned from Jana BUT it is a very simplistic form of Jana's method.  I cannot believe she has the audacity to now sell what she learned from Jana with no acknowledgement.  I cannot understand the thinking as I am just SO THANKFUL for Jana and all the  TIME and energy she has given to me and SO many others.  It seems very unkind to treat Jana in that manner.

 

Hello Mimi.  I was wondering what the connection is between BenzoDetoxrecovery and BenzoFreedom, so I am pleased to see you posted a brief explanation.  Thank you.

 

-Zoner