Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[be...]]

Unfortunately most people find it easiest to take big cuts like that in the beginning and as they get closer to zero it becomes more difficult. A theory is that it's because at 1mg you still have plenty of benzo in your system to keep it happy even though it was used to more. Having very little to no benzo in your system is a different story as far as your brain is concerned.

None of it will kill you. It's just a waiting and hopefully learning game.

Just use caution. Your brain basically won't let you come down faster than it wants you to. Stick with your plan. Just be ready to alter it if need be. You were on a long time. No need to rush it so that you are very uncomfortable.

 

And painworld refers to all of it. It's when you are just miserable and there is nothing to do be be miserable. I will tell you this though. Exercise saved me. So, follow that instinct.

 

BDL

[[Ra...]]

Hi Tina:  I can relate to the drill of bad stuff you are feeling.  I have drug sensitivities and found sticking to a Lorazapam (ativan) withdrawal much easier.  I started at 2mg Loraz one yr ago for. heart palps.  My decreases were .25mg every 3 wks until I was down to .50mg.  At that point .125mg.  I used a razor and drew what my dosage should be.  I was at .02mg for 3 weeks before stopping.  Please know that your life returns for longer period of times once you are at .25mg dosage.  WHATEVER YOU DO, my success was based on taking the taper 1 YR.  I am one month benzo free and having an increase in symptoms.  Today is a better day.  I am sure that the severity would be unbearable if I didn't listen to this support team.  My advice, when in doubt -- slow down.  Have a day that makes you smile!

[[be...]]

Hey rare gem. Tina hasn't been on this thread for a while. But I'm interested in your post because you are so freshly off. I am now at .09mg after having tapered for 1 year. I'm hoping to be able to finish sometime late next month. I'm very curious as to how it's going to be when I'm off. My taper has been pretty tolerable lately. I have had noticeable symptoms and although unpleasant, I can handle it.

How where you just before jumping?

You say you are having an increase in symptoms at a month out? How bad? What symptoms?

Thanks for your help.

 

BDL

[[in...]]

New and still confused how to use the board.

How do I get advice and a my own Ashton chart for V. crossover from 3.5mg Ativan spead out  and 5mg ambien which

isn't working much anymore?

 

Also, I know someone who used Trazadone to replace his Xanax of 4years at bed, with no problem. I was surprised. Could that work for

my 5mg ambien/1mg ativian at bedtime??

 

Thanks. Hope I catch the responses a little later.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

hi insofar,

 

maybe you could just drop the ambien? I'm not sure, but it would seem to me that 3.5 mgs A would cover any withdrawals from that.

 

They seem pretty redudant meds.

[[Ma...]]

I'm not sure how to get a taper plan, but there is a section on here for taper plans.

 

Have you considered trying to cut the ativan some before crossing over to V?  Its not always necessary to cross over to V.  Ashton used that for people who had already tried and failed to get off the benzo they were on.  But not everyone really needs to do that.  It seems to help some people that have a hard time cutting ativan.

 

But it is possible to cut ativan down, I've been doing it.  And from what I've observed on here, I think you are better off getting rid of as much ativan as you can directly before switching to V.  That way, if you really have to cross to V, you will need less.  They are not the same drug and sometimes people have a hard time with V.  If you feel stable and ok on the ativan, you could probably just cut that a pretty good ways down.

 

Ativan is "cleaner" than some other benzos, it only has one metabolite for your body to deal with, but valium has over 200 metabolites.  I personally think that makes V harder on the body.  No benzo is easy but I would say at least try to cut down on the ativan.  Like maybe try .25 for your first cut and see how that goes.  You can make smaller reductions if that is too much.

 

JMHO

 

Sometimes people come on here and assume that switching to V is the only way to do it without even trying to cut down on their own drug.  That's not so.  In fact if you read the introductory boards on BB it really recommends cutting your own pills first.

[[ja...]]

Hi Mairin, How you doing? I agree if you don't have to c/o don't. I had to due to I/W it was bad. Mairin, if and when my daughter is ready to come off the ativan can I get your opinion? She takes about 1 mg at night. Some nights I don't think she takes it. And she has taken it during the day if she has needed to. I'm guessing she has taken it about 2 years. She started at .5. They are so tiny, how would she taper these and at what rate? Its good to talk to someone that is on this. Also can you explain this metabolite thing to me, how does it play into these meds and stuff. Or a link on it.

 

Thanks so much

Love Jackie :smitten:

[[Ma...]]

Hi Jackie,

 

I was on 1 mg Ativan for about 2 years? when I got pregnant.  I just went off it with no withdrawals.  I read something Colin said, that sometimes, if the dose is low enough and the half life is short enough, you won't get addicted, and the benzo is in your system for such a short amount of time that it doesn't have enough time to mess up your gaba receptors.  I think that might have been the case with me back then.  I took the pill (1 mg) just one time a day.  I did not feel i/d w/d from it.

 

If she can get through a whole day by just taking 1 pill 1 time at night, and she doesn't feel bad, she may not even be addicted.

 

Ask her to try just taking the 1 mg at night for a while with no other pills during the day.  See if she feels ok with that.  That would be a good sign that she is not heavily addicted.

 

Then see if she can cut down to .75 just once a day.  If that goes well, she could probably just keep cutting till she gets off or until she runs into trouble.

 

She's young, she is not on a high dose and not for many years.  Not everybody goes through hell getting off this.

 

Hugs Jackie

[[in...]]

no V?

[[Ma...]]

infoshar,

 

I'm just saying don't assume you must have V.  Try cutting the Ativan.  Try a small cut of less than 10%.  I'm sure .25 out of 3.5 is less than 10%.  Just see how it goes. 

 

I'm just saying, I think some people read Ashton and jump right on the V.  Its not always necessary.

 

A paraphrase of the opening page on this website states that a gradual reduction of your benzo is usually all that's needed.  Of course that can change on the way down, but I think its worth it to try to cut the drug that your body is used to, because switching can have its own problems.

[[in...]]

Yes. I have tried an 1/8 of a A. a while back. seemed to get worse over 3 weeks.

New pdoc wanted me to try 1/2 my .5A dose. Id like to but was to afraid to.

Maybe I should try it.

All so difficult for me.

 

[[...]]

infoshar,

 

I'm just saying don't assume you must have V.  Try cutting the Ativan.  Try a small cut of less than 10%.  I'm sure .25 out of 3.5 is less than 10%.  Just see how it goes. 

 

I'm just saying, I think some people read Ashton and jump right on the V.  Its not always necessary.

 

A paraphrase of the opening page on this website states that a gradual reduction of your benzo is usually all that's needed.  Of course that can change on the way down, but I think its worth it to try to cut the drug that your body is used to, because switching can have its own problems.

I was a short term Ativan user taking 2-4mg/day and cut down to around .7mg per

day before crossing over to Valium. Some people are able to taper all the way down on Ativan only

 

Bart

 

[[Ma...]]

Just wondering how other ativaners are doing.

 

I'm down to 2.5 A now and can't help but wonder how it will be as I go down more.  I guess somewhat worried about it.

 

 

[[be...]]

Hey Mairin! I can honestly say that it gets better in many ways as you go down. I am not saying that it gets easy. But it slowly becomes less scary and more tolerable.

I'm at .08 mg and I can finally take these cuts. I feel flu like sometimes. A little head pressure and some low level depression. But NOTHING like it was.

 

I'll be ready to finish in one more month. Then...

 

 

Who knows? Who cares? Life is cake after benzo withdrawal.

 

I wish you the very best!

 

BDK

[[...]]

Hi guys, im still trying to taper off of 0.5 of ativan 2 times daily once in the morn and then at night..i am confused as i dont know if this is ok? the dr put me on Inderal half to one pill a day cause my BP is high and my heart pounds. palps ugghhh.anxiety high..the inderal seems to really help, but i dont know if i should be taking it?to..I am sooo tired of all these drugs and want off!! :-\I also went cold turkey off Zoloft..now its been 22 days for that,, that was hell to..terrible muscle pain and panic but getting better,,somedays i just dont know what to do?

[[Al...]]

I tried for 2 years to get off Ativan by tapering and failed due to the extreme reactions I had at low doses. Any thing less than .75 and I would disabled from normal life.

I just finished a cross over to Valium and made the swith from .78 A to 4.5 Valium. It should have been 7.5 mgs. but I found I could reduce the overall dose as I crossed.

Everyone is different I know but aside from a smooth cross over, I have never felt better in years. I believe I was one of those who do not mix well with Ativan as it affects so many functions of my physiology.

I would suggest any one who suffer greatly as the Ativan dose gets low cobsider crossing to Valium.

 

I truly feel as though I have gotten my life back.  Zero SXS as of now.

[[aw...]]

Hi, ATU:

I'm slow liquid tapering from 6 mg A, no crossover but I do take 5 mg V a day. I'm thinking of leaving the V in place and tapering the A around it. Do you think the V would help with the interdose w/d sx that I hear are the big problem at low A doses? Is that what you experienced?What were those "extreme reactions", if I'm not being too personal. I'd sure like to avoid a c/o, especially as the docs around here would want to use K!

 

Aweigh

[[in...]]

trying to get off 3.5 A and 5mg ambien. failed previous tapers. don't know what road to take. really having difficulty with s/x and disfunction.

also have lyme disease and am frightened. want to get started and keep going. I want to whip this.

 

 

Tom

[[Al...]]

aweigh,

 

I had extreme muscle soreness rigidity, hearing imparment, vision bluring, fluctuating blood pressure , periods of high heart rate, low blood pressure episodes that caused me to pass out afew times. joint aches especially in the wrists, hair loss. Periods of extreme fatique, brain fog. I could go on and on.

 

I found getting from 1 mg. down to .75 mgs of A quite manageable,but beyond that I always hit a wall and I tried going real slow.

I am surprised you are taking A and V together if it is not part of a cross over plan.

 

I am no expert but for me it seemed the only way for me to get off of Ativan was to cross to Valium and so far it is working well.

Even Dr. H. Ashton says that with these short half life strong Benzos like Ativan and Xanax in particular it is impossible to achieve a stable decreasing blood level to achieve a taper withdrawal. Having said this, I know from being on this site for a few years now that many have done that. We are all different, the important thing is to have a plan, stick to it and if it dose not work out, speak to your Dr. about alternatives. For all I know I may have been having paradoxical reaction to A for some time.

 

At any rate I wish you all the best in your recovery from Benzos. They ought to be banned in my opinion.  

[[aw...]]

Hi, ATI:

Thanks for the reply. Wow, those are some sx    i can see why you c/o'd to Valium for your taper. Most doctors around here simply will not prescribe V, especially to older people. I'm sure there are exceptions, and money talks, but I'm really going to try to do it directly from A. Have you noticed any differences (history, taper rate, method) between those who tend to succeed and those who don't?

The V was for a different condition (small dose for muscle spasm) and I just kind of left it in place. Do you see any reason not to be taking it? I have been afraid of a long and difficult c/o, as some report, but that's not what you're experiencing at all, is it? You don't seem to be having problems and you're off A and holding for stability, prior to starting your V taper. That sounds very reassuring to me.

 

Did you have severe sx all the time you were tapering A at 1-2 mg? But then they got way worse when you went < 1mg?

 

aweigh

[[Al...]]

I was only on 1 mg. but for 2 years daily. I have noticed that when a person is on higher doses then tapers slowly, and avoids alcohol and other drugs they usually come down pretty well. When the dose seems to reach a critical mass as it were. In my case .75 mgs. There was no taper dose small enough to hold back symptoms. The fact that you are taking a long acting benzo namely Valium should help you taper down and eventually cease A altogether. Then you can taper off the V.

 

I have also heard of V cross over issues but when I searched the benzo wise files the overwhelming body of evidence seemed to back up the claim that this is the best solution. To cross to V then taper down. I was able to cross and taper during the cross as is suggested in the Ashton manual.

 

I know I have a ways to go and I have to be patient as I tend to want to rush my program. All I can say is everyone I contacted on here who crossed to V had a relatively easy go of it and that was my experience as well.  Some Dr.s especially in the States ( I'm in Canada) shy away from prescribing V. I think they remember the bad rap it got as the first multi prescribed benzo and the bad press it got. There is also depending on the patient the supposed higher occurrence of depression with long term V use.

 

I am older as well 57. When I tried and could not reduce A after failing repeatedly I went to my Dr. and requested V and told him of prof. Ashton research. He agreed and it is working for me.

[[aw...]]

I was on a lot more for a lot longer. You say "There was no taper dose small enough to hold back symptoms." I don't understand--was it a measurement problem? I have a buddie who did what you are doing, changed over while tapering, and is now losing the V. He suggests increasing the V dose if needed to allow a clean taper from the A. Sounds resonable to me; I'm not so sure about my doc. I think your idea of pitching her with Dr. Ashton's crossover tables might be a good idea.

Glad it's working for you. If you want some entertainment, have a look at my bizzare taper plan. "Aweigh's taper" under Titration Tape Plans. Are you using milk?

 

Aweigh

[[Ma...]]

Hi I just want to say I support those who go over to V.  I don't personally think its the best idea at high doses, but under 20 seems manageable to people.  But I guess if you have to c/o higher than do so.  I just hit 2.5 A and seem to be having a hard time with this cut.

[[Ev...]]

Hello all -

 

Just wanted to share my direct-off-Ativan experience for any newer folks and those that might be considering that method.  I wasn't on a high dose, (it varied between 1mg - 1.25 mg a day, for anxiety related to hyperthyroid), but became horribly ill after two months.  My doctor insisted it was my own anxiety, so I suffered for two additional months until I found this site and realized what was going on.  By that time I was bedridden and unable to work.

 

My doctor wouldn't look at the Ashton manual, and scorned the idea of crossing over to Valium.  He insisted that I was on such a low dose of Ativan I'd have no trouble getting off.  He wrote out a plan to have me drop 1/3 of the dose every three days.  Trusting him, I tried, and the first cut was a nightmare escalation of symptoms.  I pleaded to go slower, and he agreed. 

 

Learning from this site, I divided my dose into four equal portions a day to reduce interdose withdrawal.  I spaced the doses at 6AM, Noon, 6PM, and 11PM.  In the beginning, I dry cut .5 mg pills with a razor blade, dropping my dose by .125 mg each 7 to 10 days or so, depending on how I felt.  I would have an escalation of symptoms for a few days after each cut, then gradually felt better.  The Ashton manual recommends holding each cut 10 to 14 days, and I do wish I had done that to allow more stabilization time.  Go slowly!!

 

At .625 mg a day, I switched over to a compounded liquid solution from a pharmacy because it was too hard to cut the pills accurately.  Most towns of any size have a compounding pharmacy, and your doctor needs to write a prescription for the liquid. It needs to be kept cold, so if I was going to be out and about at one of my dose times I brought the bottle and a syringe in one of those small insulated lunch coolers with an ice pack in it.

 

To make the math easy, I had the pharmacy mix the Ativan suspension at  .1 mg = 1 ml.  A full syringe is 1 ml, which makes that ratio easy to use for measuring doses, especially at 6 am! 

 

An example of the typical math at the .625 mg a day stage:

 

To calculate the size of each of the four daily doses needed at .625 mg a day, divide .625 mg by 4  = .15 mg (rounded the result).  Since .15 mg = 1.5 ml of my liquid Ativan, and a syringe holds 1 ml, I needed a full syringe plus half of a syringe four times a day.  The syringes are marked for measuring really tiny amounts for when you get down lower. 

 

Note: the pharmacy gives you a few 1 ml syringes, but I found with daily use and rinsing them out the numbers and lines on the plastic wore off.  You can order a supply to keep on hand very cheaply on the internet.

 

At .5 mg a day I had some trouble and reduced to cuts of .06 mg every 7 to ten days, depending on how I felt.  If I felt good I would "push" my cut bigger by tiny bits ( by .01 or so) the last few days, to start the next cut at a slightly lower dose.  Probably not the greatest idea, but I figured I could "fool" my brain into not noticing the extra tiny cut. 

 

At .25 mg a day I hit a particularly bad patch, the worst of the taper for me, and had to slow down again, reducing my cuts to .03 mg.  The reduction helped immensely.  When I finally reached .03 mg a day total, I jumped.

 

I'm sure there are other relatively short-term users at low doses have had an easier time than I did, I was just one of the unlucky ones.  It helps to write out your dosing plan with your math for each cut (I kept a spreadsheet), and pencil your target dates for each cut on a calendar.  I say pencil, because you should be prepared to adjust the dates and cut amounts as you reach each stage. 

 

Listen to your body, and don't be afraid to hold for a bit if you need to.  In retrospect, I wish I'd gone a little slower than I did, but being sick right from the start I was desperate to be off.  Take your time, make it easy for your brain to adjust and settle in to each dose change.  The day will come when you can celebrate throwing the pills and syringes away!

 

I hope this helps.

[[Ma...]]

Thanks for your post EverGreen.