Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[Al...]]

This has been what was always woorying mr, once insomnia sets in it can hard to combat.

 

Cedar, did you sleep well with 4 eqal doses?

[[Al...]]

Here is what I am going to do starting tomorrow.

Currently I use .7 Mg's daily, I suspend/dissolve it in 100 mils. of water and dispense well shaken with a 10 ml. syringe.

I am retired so I don't have to get up at 5 am. any more, I typically sleep 8 hrs. So 100 mils. divided by 24 hrs. equals 4.16 mils/hr. starting with my sleep period of 8 hrs. that 8 x 4.16 =33.3 mils. @ bedtime

That leaves 66.7 mils. to be divided into 3 day time doses or 22.2 mils. x 3.

 

This should theoretically balance my 24 hr. needs.

 

So 11:30 pm, bed time, I take 33.3 mils . Working backwards then:

 

Upon waking @ 7:30 am I take 22.2 mils., then @ 12:45 pm I take another 22.2 mils., then @ 6:00 pm I take another 22.2 mils.

 

This then brings be around to the start of a new cycle, 11:30 pm bed time, I take my sleeping dose of 33.3 mils. etc.

 

Does anyone see an error in my math here?

 

[[ce...]]

This has been what was always woorying mr, once insomnia sets in it can hard to combat.

 

Cedar, did you sleep well with 4 eqal doses?

Uggh, no I didn't sleep well (doctor had added Ambien and I didn't know better) and had a million wicked symptoms due to being in tolerance prior to starting taper.  But, if I missed a dose, it was that much worse which was hard to imagine, but it was.  It was a double edged sword. Damned if I took and damned if I didn't take it.  But, I'm glad I kept the doses 4 times a day and continued my taper at a reasonable rate.  I do believe it helped me in healing well.

 

I was so debilitated I was not working.  I don't know how you guys keep jobs through this, but I applaud you. 

 

All I can tell you with 100% certainty is that adding a Z-drug like Ambien will make things much much worse and make sleep non existent.  The only thing that helped me was to establish good sleep hygeine. Nothing else worked.

[[ce...]]

Here is what I am going to do starting tomorrow.

Currently I use .7 Mg's daily, I suspend/dissolve it in 100 mils. of water and dispense well shaken with a 10 ml. syringe.

I am retired so I don't have to get up at 5 am. any more, I typically sleep 8 hrs. So 100 mils. divided by 24 hrs. equals 4.16 mils/hr. starting with my sleep period of 8 hrs. that 8 x 4.16 =33.3 mils. @ bedtime

That leaves 66.7 mils. to be divided into 3 day time doses or 22.2 mils. x 3.

 

This should theoretically balance my 24 hr. needs.

 

So 11:30 pm, bed time, I take 33.3 mils . Working backwards then:

 

Upon waking @ 7:30 am I take 22.2 mils., then @ 12:45 pm I take another 22.2 mils., then @ 6:00 pm I take another 22.2 mils.

 

This then brings be around to the start of a new cycle, 11:30 pm bed time, I take my sleeping dose of 33.3 mils. etc.

 

Does anyone see an error in my math here?

I like your dose spacing by taking your largest dose at bedtime.  That does help a lot.

 

The math looks good. If I had this to do over again titration is a good bet.  I really hope it works well for you.  You can always adjust it according to your needs.  It sucks being a clock watcher though.  Do you have an alarm on a clock, phone or watch to help remind you?  It helped me a lot so that I didn't miss doses.

[[Al...]]

Cedar, I never thought of setting an alarm but now that you mention it, I can set these alarms on my Iphone.

 

Thanks for that and I am glad you are healed now.

 

I will post again in a few days time and update as to whether or not this plan is working.

 

Thanks for your help and support.

 

Take care

[[co...]]

BDL and anyone else micro cutting,

If you do not keep track of your cuts, how do you know what dose you are on using the liquid? I think I need to start with my full dose and then cut by one small line up on the syringe every few days and then cut again by another small line till I reach the next number on the syringe. I would have to calculate what that number is in mg. so I know what my dose is and can then reorder the liquid when necessary based on what dose I am on at the time.

 

I am considering doing a crossover to Valium however I am afraid to discontinue the direct Ativan taper. I am wondering why you are working only with Ativan.

[[aw...]]

Phoenix and others,

 

Compounding or titration are the only ways to taper Ativan. Dry cutting does not work at all.

 

It's imperative to get the correct doses and to take them at the same times evenly split through the day.

 

Hope you have a good app. with your doc.     

 

Cedar

 

    WHAT SHE SAID!!

[[Ho...]]

Hey AV club...just thought I would check in from vaca and let everyone know how my time off is going.

 

Wish I could report good things, but it has really been a struggle....all the usual symptoms for me that I had when I was cutting....vertigo dizziness, lightheadedness, jitters / pins & needles, nausea, extreme fatigue, headaches, cog fog.....just in general feeling like a train wreck.  And my mood has really hit the pits. 

 

However, I am also contending with Aunt Flo this week, and she always ramps up my symptoms like nothing else.  SOOOOO, even though I'm going on 2 1/2 weeks off, and I would like to have seen improvement by now, I can't say that I'm surprised at how it is going.  Oh, and did I mention that I've been on a boat all week....so try staying on a boat when you are already dizzy.  My CNS is like, DUH, lady!!!!

 

So, all that's to say that I could use some encouragement from my AV friends.  There is NO WAY that I am reinstating this poison....if I have to ride it out, I ride it out.  Cedar, I'm glad to see you back active on this thread b/c I wanted to ask you, at what point did you and others who tapered directly from Ativan start to see improvements??

[[ce...]]

Hi Hoosierfans. Sorry to hear things are going poorly.  I have exciting news though. After my miserable, nightmare of a taper and wd, literally the first week I stopped taking benzo's I began to notice very slight improvements.  And believe me, that was a very big deal!  Thought I was doomed to misery.  But, although it took many months to completely heal, immediately I began to see symptoms disappear and that was an incredible encouragement to keep me going.

 

It helped me a lot to keep a journal of symptoms and note which ones were fading and which had gone away.  Eventually there were zero symptoms left and I was out of the woods.

 

I know everyone's journey is different, but in the end we all do get better and that is wonderful news.  There is much hope. 

 

Sending you lots of love,

Cedar

[[Ph...]]

Hoosierfans, just wanted to jump in and say "Wow"! What a great accomplishment! You must be so proud of yourself. That's awesome. I hope you get relief very, very soon. I can't wait to join the ranks of the benzo frees! Best of luck to you.

 

Cedartree, what an inspiration you are and what an asset to this forum. I try to never miss a post you make. :-)

 

P2

[[ce...]]

Oops, didn't even notice Hoosierfans that you are 18 days benzo free!  Congrats!!!  Yes, like Phoenix said, that is an incredible accomplishment. 

 

Thanks P2 for the kind words.  Wishing you all the best for happy recoveries! 

[[Ti...]]

Hello everyone, just joined the forum couple of hours ago. I have read the Ashton manual and started browsing the threads here.

 

I joined because of my father (doesn't speak English), he is in his 60s, has been using low dose (or as needed) Ativan for almost 3 decades. For years he would use 0.5mg Ativan,  two to four times per week as a sleeping - antianxiety aid.

 

Never crossed his mind that he is addicted. Due to some stressfull times during last month he was on 1mg/day Ativan once per day before bedtime. Strong minded as he is, decided to quit cold turkey never suspecting the real situation.

 

All hell broke loose.... ended up in the emergency room. All family was shocked! By pure luck I stumbled upon Benzo.org.uk with my first google search. Read the Ashton manual and next day found a physician willing to hear our points for substitution.

 

He is now 48 hours to Valium. He was advised to start with 5mg Valium before bed but according to Ashton manual this seems low. After first night of 5mg Valium by noon today he was having a full blown panic attack, I gave him another 4mg of Valium and recovered.

 

I understand dosages are very personal thing, and Valium builds up very slowly, should we go again for 5mg Valium tonight or should  we up the dose. Ashton recomments only nighttime dosages during the last stages and he was already on a low 1mg Ativan before bed.

 

What's the consensus here for helping jump from 1mg bedtime Ativan?

Divide Valium to night and noon or up the nightime Valium dosage until he is comfortable?

 

Thank you for your time. I have a lot of reading to do here, great forum!

 

[[he...]]

Wow TimJr.

 

Your father is so fortunate to have you looking out for his withdrawal experience.  I'm so sorry to hear what he has gone through already.  Hopefully, with the help of some buddies here, you can work it out.

 

I'm on clonazepam, but I think some things are the same with all benzodiazepines.  Other things are specific to kind of benzo.

 

First, stabilize.  Before I started tapering I took a little more each day until I felt stable (normal, no big symptoms).  From there you can start tapering.  4% every 2 weeks or 1% every couple days, it's a personal choice, but that's the general starting rate.

 

Valium is 5mg to Ativan 1mg.  So if you dad was taking 1mg Ativan, an equivalent Valium amount is 5mg. 

 

Also, I started by splitting my dose to 2x a day.

 

Just my experience,

best of luck to you and your father

hbam

[[aw...]]

 

First, stabilize.  Before I started tapering I took a little more each day until I felt stable (normal, no big symptoms).  From there you can start tapering.  4% every 2 weeks or 1% every couple days, it's a personal choice, but that's the general starting rate.

 

Valium is 5mg to Ativan 1mg.  So if you dad was taking 1mg Ativan, an equivalent Valium amount is 5mg. 

 

Also, I started by splitting my dose to 2x a day.

 

Just my experience,

best of luck to you and your father

hbam

HBAM:

The Ashton Manual gives 10mg Valium = 1 mg Ativan. Other references give 5:1 or numbers in between those limits. In my own body,  it's about 7:1. Valium is metabolized differently in the elderly (in general, slower) and has some other problems for them. Also, the taper rate you suggest is nice and slow, but it will require the use of Valium in solution to get those intermediate doses.

 

Aweigh

[[Ti...]]

 

First, stabilize.  Before I started tapering I took a little more each day until I felt stable (normal, no big symptoms).  From there you can start tapering.  4% every 2 weeks or 1% every couple days, it's a personal choice, but that's the general starting rate.

 

Valium is 5mg to Ativan 1mg.  So if you dad was taking 1mg Ativan, an equivalent Valium amount is 5mg. 

 

Also, I started by splitting my dose to 2x a day.

 

Just my experience,

best of luck to you and your father

hbam

HBAM:

The Ashton Manual gives 10mg Valium = 1 mg Ativan. Other references give 5:1 or numbers in between those limits. In my own body,  it's about 7:1. Valium is metabolized differently in the elderly (in general, slower) and has some other problems for them. Also, the taper rate you suggest is nice and slow, but it will require the use of Valium in solution to get those intermediate doses.

 

Aweigh

 

Thanks for the advice. Today is the fourth day on Valium.

 

5mg Valium per night.

We are experimenting with the second midday dose.

5mg -> 4 mg -> 3mg each of the last three days and he seems to be able to go lower since he gets overrelaxed or drowsy.  We will probably go for 2,5mg tomorrow noon and stick there for a while.

 

He had good night sleep but he wakes a little shaken. He  recovers in 30minutes. This bad morning time was also constant during his Ativan usage so I will leave it as is and taper only his midday dosage for the time being.

 

I will have him also logging his wellbeing during wake hour, midday dosage and before bedtime to keep track how his brain reacts.

 

Thanks everyone, this forum is a great help and hope.

[[ma...]]

Hello everyone, just joined the forum couple of hours ago. I have read the Ashton manual and started browsing the threads here.

 

I joined because of my father (doesn't speak English), he is in his 60s, has been using low dose (or as needed) Ativan for almost 3 decades. For years he would use 0.5mg Ativan,  two to four times per week as a sleeping - antianxiety aid.

 

Never crossed his mind that he is addicted. Due to some stressfull times during last month he was on 1mg/day Ativan once per day before bedtime. Strong minded as he is, decided to quit cold turkey never suspecting the real situation.

 

All hell broke loose.... ended up in the emergency room. All family was shocked! By pure luck I stumbled upon Benzo.org.uk with my first google search. Read the Ashton manual and next day found a physician willing to hear our points for substitution.

 

He is now 48 hours to Valium. He was advised to start with 5mg Valium before bed but according to Ashton manual this seems low. After first night of 5mg Valium by noon today he was having a full blown panic attack, I gave him another 4mg of Valium and recovered.

 

I understand dosages are very personal thing, and Valium builds up very slowly, should we go again for 5mg Valium tonight or should  we up the dose. Ashton recomments only nighttime dosages during the last stages and he was already on a low 1mg Ativan before bed.

 

What's the consensus here for helping jump from 1mg bedtime Ativan?

Divide Valium to night and noon or up the nightime Valium dosage until he is comfortable?

 

Thank you for your time. I have a lot of reading to do here, great forum!

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

your dad sounds like me, only i'm 75 (see my history below).  perhaps your dad can do what i did.  my wd was bad, but no worse than what i read from people on this forum who go through a long, involved withdrawal process.  as you can see from my experience, i withdrew in 8 days under medical supervision.  if your dad is strong and determined, he might find that the protocol i followed best for him.

[[Ho...]]

Thanks you guys for your kind words, especially you Cedar.  It gives me hope that I can recover from this.  It's just so frustrating because Ativan made me so non-functional....I stabilized on it at semi-functional (sleeping a lot but could do light things around the house) and knew it wasn't doing me any good.  I had to leave my job.  The end of my taper and now after I'm off, I feel like I'm back to almost totally non-functional....the vertigo and light headed dizziness is keeping me on the couch most of the day.  Most of the vacation I just sat around or slept while my hubby spent time with the kids.

 

So, at this point I'm pretty disheartened.  I'm trying to focus on what I AM doing even though I'm feeling so punky, in order to pass the time.    The horrible anxiety beast is just screaming at me that the physical symptoms aren't going to go away, and I'll be stuck sleeping 14 or more hours a day like I am now. 

 

Anything anyone can suggest to help with the w/d symptoms would be greatly appreciated.  I'm working weekly with my therapist, doing CBT, meditation, light therapy, walking (when I'm up to it), watching funny movies, and journaling.  I'm also trying to eat a little cleaner (read: more protein, less sugar).

 

[[Ma...]]

Just something I realized today.  The fatigue that accompanies withdrawal seems to mimic the same kind of fatigue you get from low blood pressure.  Benzos can drive your blood pressure down.

 

Today I tried drinking water with salt in it.  I've been having crushing fatigue and foggy thinking, and it cleared up when I drank the salt water.  It pretty much instantly raises your blood pressure.  Just wanted to share, I felt better today than in a very long while.

[[Ho...]]

Just something I realized today.  The fatigue that accompanies withdrawal seems to mimic the same kind of fatigue you get from low blood pressure.  Benzos can drive your blood pressure down.

 

Today I tried drinking water with salt in it.  I've been having crushing fatigue and foggy thinking, and it cleared up when I drank the salt water.  It pretty much instantly raises your blood pressure.  Just wanted to share, I felt better today than in a very long while.

 

Mairin, you are absolutely right, they can drive your pressure down.  I already run low, so when I've been on benzos it's really a "is this worth it" type of debate before we start one.

 

Because I run low, I take Thermotabs, 6 a day.  It's equivalent to 3,000 mg of salt (2,500 mg is the RDA).  So, I probably get 6,000 mg a day.  Gatorade also helps too, b/c it has sodium in it.  I'm on another health board for people who have low bp issues (some cardiac, some neuro, like mine), and a lot of folks find that 1 g salt tabs or sea salt dissolved in water are more helpful than the thermotabs or Gatorade.  So if it helped you, go for it.  Unfortunately for me, the pure salt tabs bother my tummy!!

 

Oh, and I have a daily goal of at least 2 -3 liters of water (64 - 100 oz).  Sometimes I feel like I walk around with a straw in my mouth!! 

 

Because the benzo's mess with your CNS so much, I'm sure that's why I am having so much trouble feeling lightheaded and fatigued.  My already wonky CNS (in terms of bp) needs to get back to my "normal."  The Ativan was absolutely worse on my bp than the Klonopin......never again!!

[[Ti...]]

@[ma...]

Thanks for the reply.

Truly your situation is close to what happened to my father. Decades ago benzos for sleeping and after that no doctor told him to stop or be careful and the meds kept coming.

 

Unfortunately we don't have easy access to specialized hospitals for the cold turkey approach. And even if we did, after what happened the first 2 days of DIY cold turkey, there is no way to even consider it.

 

Things have stabilized for the time being..... 1mg bedtime Ativan switched to Valium 5mg bedtime + 2.5mg midday.

 

In about a week we'll try to taper the midday dose.

[[ma...]]

@[ma...]

Thanks for the reply.

Truly your situation is close to what happened to my father. Decades ago benzos for sleeping and after that no doctor told him to stop or be careful and the meds kept coming.

 

Unfortunately we don't have easy access to specialized hospitals for the cold turkey approach. And even if we did, after what happened the first 2 days of DIY cold turkey, there is no way to even consider it.

 

Things have stabilized for the time being..... 1mg bedtime Ativan switched to Valium 5mg bedtime + 2.5mg midday.

 

In about a week we'll try to taper the midday dose.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tim junior:  you might try taking a small cut (.05) every few days and see how it goes.  your dad sounds like a guy who might do okay on that protocol.  there really is no easy way.  all protocols have consequences and i suspect the wd symptoms will set in during his cutting.  in my case the serious symptoms didn't set in until i ct'd.    the objective is to get it handled sooner rather than later.

[[ch...]]

Ceder,

 

Thank you for the nice post, I have read everyone of your posts, you are fantastic! Sounds like you have been through absolute hell and survived! Your way with words and comfort is the greatest. You help so many people.! I have been so sick and recliner bound for over over two months. Was suddenly taken off Ativan by pdoc and CTed, it was truly hell, I was certain I was not going to make it almost did not due to rising BP and heart rate. Long story, involving two docs who said they would help me but then took me off suddenly, I would guess they were worried about a lawsuit. I found BB and wanted to do micro taper. Managed to finally obtain some Ativan Only have about 80 right now, don't know if that will be enough to finish taper or not, hope I will be able to get more somehow! I am on 1mg split in four doses a day. Pills too small, can not cut any more. My brain cannot do any math right now so I do not know how to do cuts, how to measure cuts or doses using the plan you posted, what do you use to measure them with? Have several syringes but none have the .050 and so on.Want badly to get started on taper.  I did well at first when dry cutting, even has great windows, drove car and so on but after staying on same dose for month or more everything went to heck. Can't even leave house, lost over forty lbs, am sooo skinny with extreme muscle and fat loss, dry hanging skin, look like death and it scares me. Wonder if I will make it. Am in bad shape. Husband works in remote area in Alaska so I am alone going through this. Sister in law buys my groceries and such. But she has family. Am accidental addict, but docs in er treat me like street drug addict, so awful. I need help. Alaska is very hard to get benzos in if they know you are addicted. And there is no where to turn for help, no where. Doubt I will be able to get any more Ativan at all. Am so scared. Can you help with numbers for tapering? Just cannot figure out how to do measuring. Thank you so very much Ceder! I hope that you can help me somehow!

Chanetta

 

Edit: reformatted

[[Ho...]]

Managed, I'm curious what your recovery has been like.  What symptoms did you have after your protocol and how / when did they disappear?  So glad for your and Cedar's input on this thread!!!

[[ce...]]

Chanetta, I'm not sure how to titrate Ativan, but I know there are people here who do.  I had to have a compounding pharmacy make out my small doses because I didn't know any other way.  Perhaps start a thread in the "taper plan" section asking how to titrate Ativan.  If you have pills now, you may be able to use every bit to water titrate.

 

It really is important to never tell docs you're suffering wd or they won't want to prescribe you pills.  Just go to the doc to get what you need to taper and don't give them too much info on what you're doing.  You're trying to get set free from this and that's what matters.

 

I'm sorry you're alone in Alaska. That's got to be hard.  It's good your sister can get you groceries. Try to distract yourself as much as you can. Lots of movies, okay?  It sure helped me to do anything to get my mind off my own suffering.  This is not an impossible task, so don't lose hope.

 

You're not alone!

 

Keep talking to us and we'll work through it.

 

Hugs,

Cedar

[[ma...]]

Managed, I'm curious what your recovery has been like.  What symptoms did you have after your protocol and how / when did they disappear?  So glad for your and Cedar's input on this thread!!!

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------after ct:

hoosierfans:  pr your request, this is my approximate wd journey-----( there were probably more bad things, but these are the ones i remember.

 

 

month:

1  sweats, insecurity, a couple of psychotic episodes, rubbery legs, no energy, muscle and joint pain, jaw and tooth pain, one hour per night sleep, could not tolerate noise, compromised immune system, foggy head.

 

2-7 same as above, except sleep improved to "up-each-hour for four hours total.

 

8-14 same as above except sleeping for two hour stretches for total of 5-6 hours per night.

 

15-19 less sweating, less insecurity, better energy, 6-7 hours sleep per night, tinnitus,  muscle and joint pain.

 

20 (current) light night sweats, better energy, periodic tinnitus, muscle and joint pain more severe after workouts at the gym, sleeping 7 hours per night with about 4 trips to pee.