Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[Mo...]]

Hi Moose,

 

Yes, I had been having the spikes before the Ativan. Also feeling anxious--that nervous feeling right in the pit of my stomach.  I would also feel lightheaded at times.  The BP spikes were making me more anxious which is why they gave me the Ativan.  It helped quite a bit, but I also knew that I would have to taper off of it.  I tapered pretty quickly and was doing fine until I reached 0.25 mg. That is when things got very bad.  I could barely function due to the spikes and feeling a loss of balance when I walked.  It was awful.  I went to every kind of specialist and everything checked out normal. I really did not know what was going on until I found the old yahoo benzo group.  It was advised that I up my dose until I stabilized and then do a very slow water taper.  Except for an occasional BP spike when I did not measure my doses correctly, I had a very smooth taper.  I did not get the BP spikes when I cut because I was cutting by a very small amount each day rather than all at once.  It took me over a year to taper off of 0.75 mg, but again I only tapered a very small amount each day and never once had to updose.  I sometimes would hold for a few days but other than that I was fine.

 

As far as the BP, I remember one time when I went to ER it was about 190/110.  I usually do not check my BP at home anymore because I panic if it is high which just makes it worse.  I do know when it spikes though because I get symptoms.  Yes, I am on BP meds.  I have been on them for a very long time--BP was spiking while on the meds.  We ended up doubling my dose of BP med back in 2006 when I first started with the BP spikes.

 

Right now I am not doing well.  The old symptoms are back but that is because I started with Ativan again a few years ago and held at one dose (0.25 mg) for over a year.  It was a stupid thing to do, but I was getting prepared for a surgery and since it was my first one I was very anxious about it.  No excuse I know.  Symptoms came back a couple of months ago and as I said there is also alcohol in the mix now.  I am worried because I feel I have gotten myself into a terrible mess now.  I should have continued tapering a year ago--I would have been finished with this  by now. 

 

I hope I answered your questions. I think talking to your doctor is a good idea especially with the thyroid issue.  It does sound like it is a mix of thyroid and withdrawal, but then again it could be just the thyroid.  Were you having symptoms before the thyroid issue?

 

Anne

 

Anne. I am so sorry that you are once again going through this. I am hoping your health issues resolve and you can back on the road to recovery...you did it once right!!!

 

I am asking my doc about the thyroid issues and if I can do like you said...very small cuts until at least the thyroid gets under control and more stable. I don't want to hold for weeks and weeks...I think it may be safe to micro taper. The thyroid issues are what actually started me on Ativan...I was having anxiety and heart palps...not realizing my numbers were plunging...had I known it was that I would've waited it out!!! But had we all known right?!?

 

Please check back and let us know how you are. Thanks for the answers on BP and it sounds like really microtapering may be the way to go. Will see what doc says.

 

Moose

[[Mo...]]

So I screwed up I think. When I FINALLY get a handle on a dosage schedule and such...I fall asleep last night before my 1130 dose...zonked right out at 1030...I imagine the holiday rigamarole did me in. Anyway...I woke up at 2 realizing I didn't take my 1130 dose...and took it. EEEEK. My body won't think I've updosed right? Has anyone missed a dose and what have they done?!? I could KICK myself in the butt right now. AHHHHH!!!!

 

Thanks for any insight in advance.

[[an...]]

Moose,

 

It is okay.  Many times I have missed my dose, and then take it when I remember.  Usually, I will feel some symptoms right before my dose which reminds me it is time to take it  Its funny, just a few months ago, I would forget to take my 3:30 dose right before my 4:30 lecture and I would feel fine.  I would just then take the dose at 5:45 right after work and then take my night dose at the same time.  I did not have any problems with that.

[[an...]]

Moose

 

Thank you for the supportive words.  They help.  I have a feeling I will be here for quite a while.  It helps to communicate with others who are going through the same thing.  I should have known better when I decided to restart the Ativan.  But it is what it is, and you are right, I can do it again.

 

I am glad you are going to talk to your doctor. It is recommended that you keep your cuts be no more than 10% every two weeks.  You will need to adjust the cuts when you get to lower dosages. Yes, if we had all known, we would not be here now.  It is amazing that such a small amount of drug can cause so many problems.

 

Hope you feel better soon.

[[pe...]]

Anyone use any other scales apart from the gem20- i've tried two now and they are just too inaccurate.

 

Thanks

Pete

[[no...]]

Hello all!

 

I had a lot of catching up to do!  So much going on with the holidays and all but I'm glad to read how all of you are doing and hope to get back on track with more regular life again.  I made another .25 cut two weeks ago and was doing alright at first.  Now, I am not sleeping well so I may be at a point where the Tylenol PM is not going to help with sleep. My schedule has been so different tho so I'm not quite sure.  I have been off work since Dec. 20th and go back on Jan. 2nd (college winter break).  I've been traveling here and there to visit family, sleeping in different  places, having grown children back home, staying up late and generally just living way different than when I am working.  No problem if I don't get to sleep at night if I don't need to wake up at 6 am for work!  My main sxs are tinnitus and body twitches.  I found a forum here that is just for the body twitches and since my Dr. told me that he didn't think the twitches had anything to do with my meds, it is great to hear from others who are experiencing the same thing.  Most of the time, it's just my legs and only when I go to bed at night.  Very strange tho, because sometimes the spasms are quite strong!  Good thing I live alone!

 

Has anyone else felt post holiday blues?  My son and his girlfriend left to go home last night and I just burst into tears watching them drive away!  I'm tearing up again just thinking about it.  Hoping it is just mamma feeling the empty nest and it will pass.  My youngest daughter, who has been living with me, is also moving out soon so I can give myself a break, right?  Totally "normal" to feel the loss of those changes.

 

I'm also looking forward to a new freedom that I have not had as a single parent for the past 30 years!

 

Will any of you be celebrating on New Year's Eve?

 

NRW

[[su...]]

Do you plan on continuing with the. 25 cuts?  The holidays bring out such mixed emotions for me...sad but happy!  I am glad to hear things are ok for you and I hope they continue in that direction! 

[[Mo...]]

Since I am newbie...and on here gathering as much info as I need...I have another question. I experience W/D symptoms and goofy things...but what are waves and windows exactly? Can anyone give a good explanation of those? I mean do I experience these things and such or just feel like crap at times and ok at times.  I'd look it up but as soon as I start googling...well it's a disaster of info.

 

Thanks!

[[Mo...]]

Feeling all together craptastic, and not sure why. I think it's because I haven't slept well the past couple of nights. Husband has a cold and his snoring is just...UGH  I'm waffling about getting some kind of OTC sleep aid. I'd prefer one without a pain reliever. What has worked for you all?

 

I still want to make my next cut on Wednesday! Hopefully this icky feeling will pass after I get some better sleep. Stay well, buddies!!

 

xo

Mookie

[[Ki...]]

NorthRiver - you sound like you had a busy holiday....that's great! Being surrounded by family is so special and really what it's all about. I think it's absolutely natural to be feeling sentimental when your children leave, and of course every emotion is heightened in w/d. I think you are doing quite well if all you are dealing with is tinnitus and twitches. I hope it continues for you all through your taper. It's nice to have people on the thread that don't suffer as I believe it brings hope to others. You're doing great....I hope your sleep schedule gets straightened out before you go back to work 

 

Moose - generally, windows and waves, as referred to on this forum are windows of normalcy when your symptoms have disappeared or reduced dramatically. They can last minutes, hours, days, weeks. This applies to tapering or recovery. Waves are when your symptoms intensify or new ones pop up and you are below your general baseline. Baseline is how you feel everyday when you aren't in a wave or window. For example: my baseline is about 60% functional from pre-benzo's. In a window I could feel anywhere from 90-100% and in a wave I could feel 10%.....waves suck 

 

Mookie - sorry you are having trouble sleeping. Hopefully Saga will chime in and let you know what worked for her. I've been very lucky in that department so don't have any suggestions. Sorry 

 

[[Mo...]]

Thanks, Kiddo! You've had enough other sxs, so that's awesome that your sleep has been good! It's just the past few nights with the snoring...I haven't been able to tune it out. I've thought about ear plugs, too. Hoping I'm tired enough to sleep through it tonight!

 

Just had dinner and feel a bit better...maybe I was hungry and didn't know it. Weird. Take it as it comes!

[[Sa...]]

Mookie ear plugs are a necessity in my house  same issue...glad you're feeling better. For sleep I've rotated Unisom (doxy)..melatonin and Benadryl. I rotate them so my body doesn't become accustomed to them. Hope you don't need it but it helps to know options!

 

Moose Kiddo covered it all. Words of wisdom- stay away from dr google  nothing good can come from it!

 

North I agree with Sunny the holidays can be a powder keg of emotion...they certainly were for me this year...sounds like your taper is going really well. The twitching absolutely can be from the meds! Glad you had a nice break from work.

[[Mo...]]

Thank you so much for the info, Saga...looking at all the choices in the sleep aid aisle was overwhelming! I think I'll try Unisom first...not sure about melatonin. Other supplements seemed to have a negative effect, though that might have just been withdrawal stuff having nothing to do with the supplements!! Just letting those go until I'm off this stuff. I WAS able to power through last night after waking from the snoring and fell back to sleep, but I'll grab something just in case. Thank you again!! xo

 

Hope everyone is doing all right today! 

[[Mo...]]

Happy New Year, Buddies!!! :yippee:

[[Ta...]]

Hi All, some really nice people showed me how to move over here to this thread, so please may I join in?

 

1mg Ativan per night for 10 plus years. I have never increased my dose but feel I have reached tolerance/interdose withdrawal. Have been mentally preparing and doing research for several months and am ready to get off this stuff. I have a copy of the Ashton Manual, but it does not give a schedule starting at 1mg.

 

I thought it was kind of a low dose, but a nice person made the comment it's not really all THAT low, = 10mg diazapam. My doctor doesn't seem to want to go that route, and a new Nurse Practitioner I saw just today wants me to do a DIRECT switch to .5mg clonazepam (Klonopin generic?) starting Sunday night.

 

I have 4 days to decide what to do. I really don't want to switch. The thought of tapering scares me anyway, much less switching. I understand the idea, being that clonazepam is long acting vs. short acting Ativan, but I am still frightened of the idea of a complete switch.

 

The biggest issue I have is I cannot find a taper schedule starting at 1mg...I'm trying to find out how to start.

 

:'( Cry face because I can't get any help from doctors or NP's, and don't just want to WING IT on my own!!

 

Thanks for listening/reading. Happy New Year to ALL 

[[Ki...]]

Hi Taylor  Glad you found your way here! Since I already answered you in your original thread I'll just say welcome to the thread. You'll have other buddies responding soon. Keep asking questions, you will be just fine.

 

Also, I just wanted to mention that you don't need an actual schedule to taper. Let your body guide you. 

[[Ta...]]

Ok Kiddo, but you guys have given me a great place to start! I didn't even have THAT much before today. I've heard you don't have to adhere to a strict schedule, that once you get started you just see how you feel. But I think 1-2 weeks per cut is my understanding of how people are doing it,so I'm going to try that. I won't give myself an End date...just getting started is the BIGGEST step.

 

You've been so helpful. Wow. I wonder if some day I could help others, in return. There has to be something Positive that comes out of this experience. I bet going through this changes people's lives somehow.

 

I have natural pessimistic/worrier personality. But I am seeing a (non medicine) therapist for Cognitive Behavior Therapy and am going to attempt to do mindfulness/meditation exercises. That is, if I can sit still long enough and get my mind to quiet down. I've always had a hamster on a wheel running full speed...that's part of the reason I was put on Ativan in the first place, so many years ago. Nobody told me it would end up like this.

 

But with new motivation, new information and hopefully a more optimistic outlook on this whole ordeal, I will get through it. Thanks again. Would it be ok if I looked you up under Members if I have a question? Or should I ask the Mediators? Just want to follow proper etiquette. 

[[ju...]]

Hi everyone.Just checking in to say HAPPY NEW YEAR!. Sending you all healing thoughts and prayers for the New Year. 

[[Sa...]]

Yes Happy New Year to everyone this will be a great year of healing for all of us!

 

Taylor welcome I went back and read your posts. You've met Kiddo and Laser already and you've been given some great advice. I also would not consider a direct cross to Klonopin before you've tried to taper directly from Ativan.,I would also recommend splitting the 1 mg into 4 equal doses. Ativan is a short acting benzo and dosing several times a day helps with the interdose w/d.

 

It's unfortunate to say the least but many Drs have no clue about these drugs and how slowly you need to reduce the dose. You're way ahead of the curve learning how to do this properly before you begin your taper. Keep asking questions. We will be happy to help in any way possible. You can directly ask here on the thread about specific tapering questions or comments. Underneath everyone's name is that little person who looks like he's speaking  only way I can describe this, LOL.click on that to send a personal message

[[Ro...]]

Just a suggestion to someone who is snoring- look into a CPAP machine. It cuts down on snoring and leads to improved sleep, for both you and your room mate(s).

[[Mo...]]

Hi Taylor and welcome! I'm pretty new here, too, and I'm totally winging my taper. My doctor is aware and supportive, but she's not guiding me with this. However, I was also on it for a MUCH shorter time than you. From what I've seen here, I would also recommend trying to taper the Ativan first before doing a crossover. I'm down to .5mg and am splitting the tablets in 4, dosing 4 times a day. Everyone here has been super supportive and kind.  Good luck on your journey!!

 

Rocking, it's my husband snoring, and he gave up on a mouthguard after one night, so I don't think he'd deal with the CPAP, even though I know both of us would get much better sleep.

[[Ta...]]

Good morning...thanks to the folks I was speaking with last night. And Hi, Mookie, thanks for responding! I have a new question, for when I get my scale.

 

Once you cut the 1mg ativan into 4 .25 doses, what do you do with the little piles of powder? For instance, how would I take 2 of these doses at work? If you put them in a container of some kind, won't you lose some of the particles to sticking on the plastic, or whatever you put it in?

 

Would you put the powder in a little vial of water and mix it up, or something? And what it the difference I'm seeing about water vs milk?

 

Basically I can lick the powder off my finger for the 2 doses at home. Just think that would look sort of suspicious at work!!

[[Sa...]]

So today was pretty rough. Some pretty intense anxiety, tinnitus, and lots of vomiting, but I'm going to do my best to write down my method so that it may possibly help people, and to give my mind something constructive to do.

 

DISCLAIMER-This should not be attempted by anyone without first consulting your doctor. I am not responsible for any injury or mishaps that may occur. Having said that, I ran this method by my doctor and she approved. This however does not mean it will be ok for you. Please exercise caution and know your facts before you try to taper any medication.

 

Taper Method: Liquid Titration (I am specifically tapering off Ativan)

 

Things you will need.

---Pen and Notebook to keep track of your daily progress

---10ML oral syringes. (These can be received for free at your local pharmacy most likely.)

--- 6 oz baby food jars (I got these at Walmart, youll want 1 for every dose you intend to take throughout a 24 hour period. So if your going to be taking 3 doses a day, get 3 jars. You might want more in case one accidently breaks)

---100ML graduated cylinder with 5ML increments (These can be bought at Amazon.com rather cheaply. About $12 per cylinder)

---Glass stirring rod (I bought a pack of 3 from Amazon for around $10. You could use a spoon or knife or any other utensil if you so choose)

---3 ML graduated pipettes (You can buy these in bulk very cheaply, again, I got mine from Amazon)

---80 proof vodka (No, we are NOT becoming alcoholics! This is used in very small amounts to swiftly dissolve the pills)

---Optional---100ML oral syringe with 5 or 10 ML increments (This is for making your life a bit easier when you start cutting 20ML of fluid or more. These are also available at...you guessed it, Amazon!)

---NOTE--- Don't be afraid to buy more equipment than you need! Theres always a chance of something breaking or being misplaced. Its good to have some back ups stored in a safe location, this way if something happens you have some spares without being up creek without a paddle, and will save you a lot of worry)

 

Process:

---Get all of your equipment together. Make sure everything is clean and washed before starting.

---Take your daily dose (the total amount of pills you would take in a 24 hour period) (I take 3    0.5 mgs Ativan and start with it because my total daily dose is 1.5mg) and add them to an empty 6 oz baby food jar.

---Take your 3 ML pipette and fill it with vodka. Add it to the jar with the pills. Fill it again, but this time to 2 ML. Add this to the jar (Resulting in 5ML vodka in the jar with the pills.)

---You should notice the pills starting to dissolve in a few minutes.(This is the reason we use vodka, as Ativan would take FOREVER to dissolve in water. Also note that Ativan IS NOT water soluble, which means you will not get a true solution, but a suspension of the medicine) Sometimes the process starts instantly, sometimes it takes 5-15 minutes, depending on the brand and age of Ativan. Don't panic, be patient. Gently swirl the jar around until the pills are dissolved. ( you will notice very small clumps of the pill, as it will not dissolve completely. This is perfectly normal. Just make sure you've given the pills the appropriate amount of time to break down as far as they can go)

---Take your 100 ML graduated cylinder and fill it with 95 ML of water.

---Add this water to the jar with 5 ML vodka and your pills. This will equal to 100ML of fluid in your jar (make sure your pills are dissolved before you do this)

---Now for the fun part. Grab your stirring instrument (and have your 10ML oral syringe nearby) and stir vigorously. You need to have the suspension agitated as much as possible before making your daily cut, because if you don't, the Ativan will try and settle on bottom)

---After stirring vigorously, take your 10ML or 100 ML oral syringe and make your cut. (My advice is to try and do a daily cut of 1 ML a day. This equals to 1% of your total daily dose. So in my case 1% of the total of 1.5 mgs Im taking is .015MG)

---NOTE--- You need to decide if you want to make a cut every day or if you want to cut a certain amount and hold at that dosage for an amount of time before you cut again.

---Throw whatever amount you cut down the drain. Get rid of that poison!

---Wash the inside and outside of your oral syringe as there would be residue left on it.

---Fill one of your empty 6 oz jars with pure water

---Whatever ML cut you made, add that amount of pure water back to the suspension. So if you cut 13ML and put it down the drain, Draw 13ML of pure water and add it to the jar with the dissolved pills. So you should start with a 100 ML suspension, make your cut, and add pure water back to the suspension to reach 100ML of fluid again

---Empty out the jar with the PURE water, NOT the jar with the medicine

---Determine how many doses you want to divide this into. I take 3 doses daily, so I use the oral syringe and add 33ML to one jar, 33ML to another jar, leaving me with ABOUT 33ML in my starting jar.(Make SURE you stir vigorously before dividing the doses. Every time you add medicine to one of your jars, you should stir the suspension thoroughly before adding more medicine to another jar) If you want to dose 4 times a day, add 25ML to 3 different jars, this will leave you with your starting jar containing 25 ML, thus have 4 jars total with 25ML in each.

---Screw the caps on your jars and put them in the refrigerator. The freezer will be too cold, and I don't recommend leaving them at room temperature, although it may not hurt, but why take chances?

---Write the date in your journal, followed by how many ML you cut and how many MG of medicine you cut. This will help you keep track 

 

NOTES--- I wouldn't advise keeping these doses over 48 hours. Also, try and space your doses out evenly throughout a 24 hour period.

----Listen to your body. Only you know how fast you can taper. If you start getting bad s/x try and slow it down. Chances are your taper wont be s/x free, but by controlling your cuts and listening to your body, you can help make it more bearable.

---Wash all of your equipment after use

---If you need to go anywhere and you think youll be out for a while, you can take your doses with you. Just grab a small insulated lunchbox and put your medicine and some ice packs in it. This will keep it cool and it can be left in the car, even on hot days. Just don't let the jars tip over as they may leak!

 

Taylor this is Omnis instructions on how he mixed Ativan to liquid taper. I don't believe milk should be used with Ativan by the way...I used a scale myself but I wasn't terribly concerned with extreme accuracy. I first began my reductions following Cedartree's method found much earlier in the Ativan thread. I simply made those rough dry cuts with an exacto blade. Once I bought a scale listed in my signature I made smaller reductions using a razor blade and weighing the doses. I still had small chucks of pills not powder so I took them to work in a tiny pill box. Using a hard surface like a mirror and pressing very firmly will ensure less powder. Although you could make pills of powder once the doses are cut you can simply take them dry.

 

There is a wealth of info about tapering in the pages of this thread. Even spending a few hours reading will give you a better idea of how others managed their tapers. 

[[Ro...]]

I can see why a mouthguard would be a problem. It's treating a symptom, not the underlying problem: which is- not getting enough air.

 

A CPAP blows a gentle stream of air into ...well... one's nose mostly. A positive air pressure the insures one gets the air during sleep.

 

I can sleep (mostly) without it, but I don't get a decent night's sleep. (Or I used to feel rested before getting hooked onto benzos).

 

http://www.sleepeducation.com/essentials-in-sleep/cpap

[[Mo...]]

That's great info, Rocking! I'm trying to gently suggest he do a sleep study so he could hear from an objective viewpoint what's going on. He knows it's bad, though...our daughter makes comments about it, too (she's turning 9 Sunday!).

 

In other news, I made another cut on Tuesday!! So far, so good. Going to a small party tomorrow night; think it should be all right. I haven't been out in a group of friends since all this started, so I'm hoping this gives me a boost in confidence that I can handle being out socially. I do miss it, and am sick of feeling like a hermit.

 

Much love on this New Year's Day...to 2015!