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is it safe to taper completely with clonozepam?


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This is probably answered somewhere.  but.  just wondering, with the shortish half-life and all, are the tiny amounts at the end of the taper problematic? 

 

I plan to use a ora-plus (or compound) liquid suspension, so i'm hoping to stick with just clonazepam, because I know it. 

 

Diazepam is recommended I assume because comes in MUCH smaller tablets and has a longer life.

 

Any success stories on jumping from clonazepam?

 

thanks!

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Many members have tapered off clonazepam.  I tapered directly off Xanax but I am sure others will chime in on this subject.  There have been members who had a hard time switching to diazepam.  Some members have reported that diazepam had caused severe depression but everyone is different.  You could dose 2 to 3 times a day to prevent interdose withdrawals while on the clonazepam.

 

Patty  xo

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Thanks for your response Patty.  And thanks for the validation on switching to diazepam... I have heard it's difficult, and i'm already depressed, so I'm doing everything I can to keep away.  That's helpful.

 

The next question is how low are people able to go with klonopin?

 

I'm learning to make a liquid suspension out of pharmaceutical ora-plus, so I may be able to get VERY low.

 

guess i will stick with 3x a day... as you say to avoid the interdose (or decrease) withdrawals.

 

Thanks Patty, I really appreciate your input.

hbm

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I have to disagree with you regarding Klonopin's half life--it has a very long half-life, so it's entirely possible.  I tried switching to Valium to get off of Xanax, but perhaps because of the equivalency differences, it didn't work.  I'm sure I was given a much lower dose than I needed... Heck, I'm not even sure they make 10-12 mg Xanax dose equiv. in Valium.  And it did cause depression in me, albeit mild.  Right now, I'm on Klonopin, 1mg/3x a day, just to stabilize myself and prevent seizures.  Luckily, I have a great GP and had a great psychiatrist who both understand benzos more than most doctors do.  Can't say the same for pharmacists, though! Valium is great because it comes in low doses, so you don't have to mess around with cutting your pills in half, etc. Did you consider Librium?  It has a *very* long half life--something like 25-100 hours-- and is one of the least addictive benzos (that's what the reports say, but I think when they mention addiction, they mean the "street value of abusing", in my own opinion).  

 

If you know how Klonopin works for you, stick with it.  I don't know much about the tiltration method.  I don't even have a taper plan yet.  It looked very complicated, with chemistry materials that I don't just have around the house (who does?!) but I've heard that it's the best way and isn't as complicated as you go on.  

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To your question - YES!

 

Number one, you only need to dose twice a day with klonopin. But three is fine.

 

Number two, put a 0.5 tablet of klonopin in 2 cups of water, and you have created an easily way to get smaller doses with kitchen supplies. For instance, one-quarter cup is 0.0625 mg of klonopin. That is about a small a dose as you will need.

 

My last dosage level was 0.125. I shook in my shoes jumping from there but it was fine. Not wonderful but doable.

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Hi Banana,

Clonazepam is on average 34 (18-60) hrs 1/2 life, which seems like a safe enough taper amount.  But my 1mg clonazepam pills are SO MUCH more concentrated than a 2mg valium!  and I can barely cut a half a pill with any certainty of accuracy.  a sliver off could be like a taking whole extra diazepam pill.

 

I'm still curious what people jump off from with clonazepam...

 

But --good news-- my titration troubles have been answered today (fingers crossed).  I was freaking out because all I have are lots of 1mg c-pam with no refills (can't get any smaller doses) and I don't drink milk, or trust the accuracy of the babyfood titration but feel titration is the only way to go with these high concentrated pills.  

 

So I got ora-plus, over the counter in pharmacies. No milk in it, and the crushed pills stay suspended for a month.  I can't wait to try it.  It still involves some chemistry and math, but I want this so bad, i'm putting in the time to figure it out.

 

Good luck with your plans Banana :)

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thanks for reply yram,

 

congratulations on your healing!! 

 

I take celexa too.  Are you staying on that?  I won't decide until after i'm benzo-free.

 

 

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healthybodyandmind,

 

I am just starting my Klonopin (Clonazepam) direct taper and am using .5 mg. tablets and I use an accurate pill splitter.  I was thinking about switching over to Valium, but I have read that some people really don't suggest that since you are breaking the addiction to one benzo and potentially getting addicted to another.  I think it just depends on what works for the individual.  I am going to try and do a direct taper with K as long as I can.  I was also told by a pharmacist that when you get to the lowest dose you can take it every other day (for about a month or so) and then "jump".  If that doesn't work, then separate the Klonopin doses with 2 days in between for about a month and try to jump then.

 

Again, this is justt what I've been told.  I guess I will find out how my body handles this the closer it gets to that time.  I am on Paxil (30 mg.) which has helped out with sleep and anxiety, so I think that will help getting off of the Klonopin a little easier.

 

At any rate, HTH.

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hi fishingguy,

 

thanks for your post.  is paxil an ssri?  I've been on one during the same time as the clonazepam. I was thinking it might help me from sinking into a depression during the withdrawal.  don't know...

 

what is hth?

 

happy tapering honey?  :)

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Hi healthybodyandmind,

 

Yes, Paxil is an SSRI.  I have tried other SSRI's and antidepressants, but Paxil seems to work best for me.  It also helps with the Klonopin taper (at least that's been my experience).  Oh, HTH is "Hope this helps".

 

Wishing you well...

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I originally tried to taper directly from K (before I knew about WD effects or the Ashton method), and did it way too fast and experienced horrific WD sxs.  After that, I found Ashton and crossed over to V, however I think I did my cross too fast, because I had worsening WD.  I've read where some people have a hard time specifically crossing from "K" to V.  It has something to do with the metabylites of the drugs, but I don't really understand what it means or how they act differently.

 

At the time I crossed over, I did not know anything about water titration.  I think if I did at the time, I would have used that to directly come off the K so I could make my cuts much smaller (hind site 20/20 right).  But I have read where many people have successfully tapered directly from K using either titration or compounding methods, so I believe it can be done.  Just make sure your cuts and taper schedule are small and tolerable.  When I "dry cutted" from the K, I was literally thrown into the pits of h*ll. 

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I am planning to taper off clonazepam, too. I am at .75 at night and .5 during day. Two doses. I am not experiencing interdose difficulties. From what I have read and heard here, it has a long enough 1/2 life to try it this way. So far, so good, although as you know we are all different. I will look forward to more posts from you about how you do. Hope it goes well.
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healthybodyandmind,

 

It is definitely possible to taper directly from Clonazepam. I tapered from 2mgs / day in roughly 4 months (made some aggressive cuts). It's been over 6 weeks since I jumped from .0625mg. I was rather fortunate in that I didn't suffer from many w/d symptoms along the way with the exception of about 2 days after each cut.

 

Give it a try. You can always crossover if you have difficulty at the lower dosages.

 

Good luck!

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I originally tried to taper directly from K (before I knew about WD effects or the Ashton method), and did it way too fast and experienced horrific WD sxs.  After that, I found Ashton and crossed over to V, however I think I did my cross too fast, because I had worsening WD.  I've read where some people have a hard time specifically crossing from "K" to V.  It has something to do with the metabylites of the drugs, but I don't really understand what it means or how they act differently.

 

At the time I crossed over, I did not know anything about water titration.  I think if I did at the time, I would have used that to directly come off the K so I could make my cuts much smaller (hind site 20/20 right).  But I have read where many people have successfully tapered directly from K using either titration or compounding methods, so I believe it can be done.  Just make sure your cuts and taper schedule are small and tolerable.  When I "dry cutted" from the K, I was literally thrown into the pits of h*ll. 

Patches,  so sorry to hear of your difficult/h*llish time.  It helps me though, as it confirms what I heard about switching to V.  I just bought some compound suspension fluid and am going to try that.  I hope you have made it to the other side and are healed? or healing.
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I am planning to taper off clonazepam, too. I am at .75 at night and .5 during day. Two doses. I am not experiencing interdose difficulties. From what I have read and heard here, it has a long enough 1/2 life to try it this way. So far, so good, although as you know we are all different. I will look forward to more posts from you about how you do. Hope it goes well.

  Hi Hanna,  Looks like we are traveling at about the same time.  I'm moving to suspension or compounding today.  My pills just crumble when I use a pill cutter. I can do a 1/2 but my 1/4 are not accurate. A little crumble here or there can make a big difference with these 1mg concentrated clonazepam pills which are equivalent to 10 Valium 2mg pills.  Especially at the lower cuts.  I talked to 4 different pharmacists and they were in agreement that it is safe to take Klonopin this way, in fact your doctor can prescribe you liquid Klonopin, if he or she is willing.  Mine is not, So I'm making my own.  If you are interested let me know I could make a little video or something...

cheers

 

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healthybodyandmind,

 

It is definitely possible to taper directly from Clonazepam. I tapered from 2mgs / day in roughly 4 months (made some aggressive cuts). It's been over 6 weeks since I jumped from .0625mg. I was rather fortunate in that I didn't suffer from many w/d symptoms along the way with the exception of about 2 days after each cut.

 

Give it a try. You can always crossover if you have difficulty at the lower dosages.

 

Good luck!

wow cubfan,

 

that's great that you are benzo free!!! congratulations.  and still symptom free!  that's really encouraging to hear.  I've read so many heart breaking stories, thanks for brightening the look out a bit.  go cubs!

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Hey there, yes it IS possible. I started off using water titration, then switched to a liquid suspension from CVS, I'm down to .15mg this week. I've tapered really sllllllllowly, but manage to live a pretty normal life. I have days when I feel pretty awful but I'm still working, speaking of which I have a webinar to do right now for 50+ people, eek! Best of luck, you CAN do this!!!!
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Hi Healthy,

I was thinking the same thing - that we are about at the same point and will probably have similar paths. From reading other posts on this thread, it seems like we have other people ahead of us who have done this work. Good luck to us both as we move forward.

 

I have been able to cut pills. I have some 2 mg. that cut well into 1/4s, so have my .5s from those. I have some 1 mg. that crumble, so not the greatest. I have some .5 mg. pills that split well so I am going to use those for my .125s. I have cut all these pills and am going try to use those cuts and see if they are accurate enough. Like you, despite there being a compounding pharmacist in town, I can't get dr. to deal with this as withdrawal, so will do it myself with suggestions from BBs. and with pills.  I am going to try to get more .5 pills next month and that should carry me through, I think. I will go to titration if this feels like the dosages are too varied. Will certainly ask you how you are doing it when it comes to that.

 

Right now, I have crossed over from oxazepam and am going to hold steady at the .75 at night and .5 in the day. I plan to stay at this point for two weeks. I have had a very rocky six months using oxazepam at night and inadequate coverage during the day, so have been going through major inter-dose withdrawal. Now that I have completed the cross-over, the symptoms are fewer and less distressing generally right now.

 

So my plan is to stay where I am for the next two weeks. I am away next week, so do not want to do anything. I am curious; what is your plan for your next cut and how much are you planning to cut?

 

Look forward to hearing how you are doing and what you are doing! :)

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Hey there, yes it IS possible. I started off using water titration, then switched to a liquid suspension from CVS, I'm down to .15mg this week. I've tapered really sllllllllowly, but manage to live a pretty normal life. I have days when I feel pretty awful but I'm still working, speaking of which I have a webinar to do right now for 50+ people, eek! Best of luck, you CAN do this!!!!

Hi Anna,  That's encouraging to hear someone who's doing so well. BTW, what suspension are you using from cvs?  do you make up mixtures yourself?  I just started with Ora-plus today. 
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Look forward to hearing how you are doing and what you are doing! :)

Hi Hanna,

yes, it would be great to have a buddie on the same track.  I have a taper blog, but now that I've pretty much planned my taper, I'll see if I can move that over to Buddie Blog. Maybe we can keep in touch that way.

 

I find it confusing trying to reach people I've spoken to before.  I mean, it is pretty amazing how many people there are on this site.

 

I feel so lucky to have found this!

healthy

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Hi Healthy,

I have only been here a couple of weeks and I can't tell you how wonderful I have found the support and the information. It has been so good for me to be here. Amazing. It is amazing how many people are here. I agree. So much support, plus some interesting other blogs to follow. I haven't found that it is really that hard to follow, as any new blogs to a post you have written to come up if you click on "show new replies to your posts" up on the right hand side of this page. You won't get lost, don't worry.

 

I will look out for you! I will be off line for a week and a half, starting Friday, but will look for you on your blog when I get back.

 

I don't have a taper plan yet. I have been trying to do this bit by bit - I did an entire taper schedule for 6 months  and then realized that was pretty unrealistics. Now I have backtracked to a manageable length of time; two weeks. My plan right now is to stay at my current level and think about the taper plan when I get back. I think I need to be really aware of how I am feeling.

 

How have you planned your taper? What do you think is going to work best for you? Again, hope you all goes well on this journey for you. :yippee:

Hanna

 

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You won't get lost, don't worry.

Hi Hanna, thanks for that. :)  funny what new worries I can think up. 

And even if I do get lost I've found some really interesting information just using search from the main forum.

 

I agree with you - I plan to take it a couple weeks at a time. Although I have calculated the cuts until next summer some time...  just to see how long my plan would take. 

 

The plan is to make 5% cuts, from the current-current amount. For example, I start at .75 and reduce 5% leaving .71. In ten days or so the next 5% reduction is off .71 (not .75).  And so on.

When I reach about .38 or half my starting amount, I will switch to 2.5% cuts. This noon was my first reduction from .75.  Here we go.

 

slow and steady. 

 

I hope whatever you are going offline to do is enjoyable. 

 

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I just sent a reply and I have done this a few times -logged myself out before I post :idiot:

 

Your taper sounds really good and gradual. Everything I read here says gradual is the way to go.

I do the worry about stuff as well - seem to lose one worry and replace it with another. Working on that.

 

Going away for a holiday. Planned long before I went into dose dependency in February. Benzos sure can derail things. Hopefully I just stay stable enough to make it through without feeling lousy. I am finding it is easiest to stick to a routine while I am going through this. However, by keeping things stable for the time, that should help.

 

Have a good couple of weeks. I'll search you out when I am back on line.

Take care,

Hanna

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Hello! Yes, I'm using Ora-Plus from CVS. It's definitely a lot easier for me than water titration. I put the liquid in an old vitamin container, and carry it around with me in a lunchbox to keep it cold. I take it 3xs a day.

 

I remember at first the switch felt like a cut. So when you do start the liquid don't cut right away. I've had some bumps, gosh looking back some days I felt so out of it and miserable, but the good news is I feel so much more clearer now, I know I'm healing. Please let me know if you have any other questions!!!! Good Luck!

 

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