Guidance

[[Ju...]]

I need help on tapering. I still haven't crossed over completely, but don't have an appt with my doc until the 26th. Hopefully, I'll be c/o to all valium by then. And hopefully he will agree to this or I don't know what I will do.

 

The last time (only time) I tried to taper was from Librium and was fine until the 6th or 7th day then I got hit so hard that I reinstated and decided to get off other meds first. But tolerance has set in so quickly and badly in the past 2 weeks that I have to start from here though. I got very bad withdrawals in just days from tolerance and was shocked.

 

I had been taking librium every four hours except for the last dose for years now. The last dose I would make it 6 hours probably (hard to think because of lack of sleep since this first started) but I am certain of the first 3 doses being 4 hours apart. Now that I am crossing over, I am still taking 4 doses a day. This is where I run into a problem with my taper I think. When I  took out 5 milligrams from my first Librium dose last year it was 5 mgs out of 25 mgs on that dose ( the whole dose does add up to 100 mgs but I only cut from the first dose). I wonder if it will be more difficult for me to cut since I'm not taking just 2 doses a day like Ashton advises and taking 1 milligram out of that first 10 millgrams of valium make it unbearable.

 

I am crossing over pill by pill and will still be on the dosing schedule of 4 hours a part except for the last dose being around 5 1/2 hours apart. The last dose is at least 30 minutes closer than before I was crossing over but the tolerance is so bad that I have to do it. I would like to take 2 doses a day, even 3 doses a day, but since my body is so used to this rhythm and I tried combining doses (20 V in a.m./ 20 V in p.m.) I wonder if my body will be more shocked. I couldn't handle that, but I also wonder how I am going to handle cuts spread out like this too.

 

I hope this makes some sense. Like I said, I haven't slept very much since tolerance set in and am in withdrawal. Not as badly at the moment which makes it easier to type this. It is much much worse when I wake up and then maybe 4 hours after it sets in pretty hard again. When I first began to c/o it was relentless but I do get a good hour or 2 here and there now. I need to plan while I can partially think straight.

 

[[Mi...]]

Is your doctor helping you with your crossover, or are you doing this on your own?

 

You say you are crossing over pill by pill.  Are you doing this daily?  Or are there a few days in between?

 

Sorry for the confusion.  I'm trying to figure out exactly what your crossover plan is at the moment.

 

Also, remember that a 5 mg pill of Librium is equal to 2 mgs Valium.

[[Be...]]

I had a little trouble understanding how much of what you are taking when but think you are mostly concerned about how to taper off the Valium if you are taking it 5x/day.  If that is true, I just wanted to suggest that (1) you not start to taper until you've been on all Valium for at least a couple of weeks and (2) if you are going to be tapering with the 2mg Valium tablets, it shouldn't be too difficult to start tapering off your 5 doses, alternating which one you reduce from as you go. Since Valium really doesn't need to be taken more than 2xday for most people, you could reduce your dosing to 4x/day, then 3x/day or even 2x/day at any time if you want to; just do it slowly over a matter of weeks so your body can adjust to the new dosing schedule.  Hope that makes sense.

[[Ju...]]

Thank you Missy and Beeper. I know I am confusing but thankfully I did sleep last night. I have stopped Ambien after years of use and before Ambien, I would always use a sleep aid over the counter.  Going without sleep is very hard on me when I am "normal" so now it's really awful. I didn't dream last night and have vivid ones when I do get sleep. While grateful for sleep, I worry about messing up the healing process as I took a Meclizine pill that was prescribed when I first when into the hospital. I was desperate though because I had the burning and general unwell feeling all day, but, I suffered from what I hope is depersonalization and not a little psychosis a few hours before bed. I started forgetting who I was and what everything meant is the only way to describe it. Just being in tolerance w/d scares me as I know things will get worse and I do not want psychosis.

 

I have stayed up all night for the past few years because of anxiety which is why it is so difficult to explain times I take meds. I'll schedule out what I am taking now so maybe there is less confusion. I would love to switch night and days around but am not sure if it's doable. now that I know what has caused anxiety, i would love to change to normal hours.

 

3:00 pm- Fioricet 3 (it helps with pain and helps me make it until my first Valium dose)

 

4:00 pm- Valium 10 mgs

 

8:00 pm- Librium 25 mgs

 

12:00 am- Librium 25 mgs

 

5:30 am- Valium 10 milligrams

 

(I took out my gabapentin and Tylenol 3. I've cut back to only two Tylenoyl 3 and am still cutting. I worry about the gabapentin because I'm not sure if I will have time to do it before I start cutting and it has helped with pain. I do hate taking it though because of gaba)

 

I am worried about combining doses since my body has been used to 4 doses a day. If I could take 2 doses, it would be wonderful. It would be less to worry about as things get tougher. Missy, thank you so much for telling me that 2 mgs of Valium= 5 mgs of Librium. I had such a horrible reaction when I took out 5 milligrams of Librium that I thought it was just too much and that I should have been taking ten percent out of all doses instead of just one. I'm wondering if it hits harder by taking out so much of one dose. Like if I had been taking 50 mgs of librium in the am and 50 mgs of librium in the pm, then cutting the 5 mgs wouldn't have been *as* traumatic. I hope that makes sense...Like when you get down to around 20 mgs of Valium, a person usually cuts .5 instead of 1 mg.

 

I crossed over one dose when I first got the prescription Beeper and the second dose was crossed over 8 days later. It has been 6 days since I crossed over and am waiting still. Maybe too fast on the second cross over? Since both benzos have the same half life I thought it would be ok but now I'm not sure. I *think* they are. I am confused about Librium 5-30 [36-200] and Valium 20-100 [36-200]. The brackets confuse me. I do want to take just 2 doses a day but not sure if my body will let me after all the years of 4 hour dosing.

 

This is sooo long and I *thank* everyone that reads. I am trying to explain what little I understand myself. And it is four times a day Beeper instead of five. My psych prescribed 125 mgs of Librium a couple of years back and I am so grateful now that I did not take it. I have never wanted to take these meds.

[[Mi...]]

Please keep us posted on how you are doing.

 

I think you will find that once you cross completely to Valium and hold there a few weeks before tapering, you might start to feel a bit better.

 

We'll help you out with a plan once you are ready to begin.  I can tell you of my own experience at that point.

[[Sc...]]

H there

 

I agree w/ Missy...once you're fully crossed over it will be easier to guide you through things.  As you know I found crossing over difficult but once I stabilized fully on Diazepam, I saw some improvements.  Enough that it made it worth doing the crossover. 

 

ALL the best to you...you'll get there. 

 

Hugs,

Schatje

[[Ju...]]

I really appreciate the advice Missy and Schatje  . I am in such a frenzy since hitting tolerance and feel I need to get everything done at once. You are right, I need to work on crossing over first. I have been grateful to get two nights sleep and am thinking a little more clearly. I worry because during the time I was getting no sleep, I was becoming delirious and though I am so very lucky to have my mom help me, I worry she will have to give me meds eventually and I worry she might accidently forget. That's why I was in such a state about only taking 2 doses because my med schedule is hectic.

 

I stopped Ambien but upped my dose of neurontin by 100 mgs. Bad mistake on the neurontin. Now I am weaning back down to only 200 mgs and am still weaning tylenol 3. I feel it so important to get off of these meds before I taper. I worry about the fioricet 3 because the 30 mg barbituate does help when I wake up and I worry about seizing if I stop it. I'm also not sure if my doctor will even help me do this so while I'm feeling a little more stable, I'm so stressed about "getting things in order". I will crossover and still try to decrease the other meds. I have to concentrate on that for now. When I read what you both had written, it hit me to do just that. Thank you so much!

[[Mi...]]

Tapering only one drug at a time is best, so if you can do that and hold off on tapering the Valium for a bit, I think you'll find it much easier.

 

Keep posting and letting us know how you are.