Newbie wondering if I am addicted

[[Me...]]

I am new to the group.  Need opinions and advice.   My husband died 6 months ago and I developed insomnia lasting for months.   I went to the ER and they gave me .5 of klonopin but I increased the dose to 1 mg.  Was on from March and tapered off it in June.   A detox N.D. gave me Seroquel to take with the klonopin while tapering to help me sleep. 

But in July, I started to have horrible panic attacks and disassociation, so a new psychiatrist put me on 1 mg of Ativan in July and Zoloft.  I am up to 100mg Zoloft and that was helping.   I am now down to .5 of Ativan and now attempting to go to .25 and feel terrible today.  Anxiety woke me up in the middle of the night. .    

Have I been on benzos long enough to be addicted?   My life is upside down with the death after 33 yrs of being married.  Wish I had never heard of these drugs before and at 65, I am worried I am frying my brain and causing damage.   

Opinions?

[[Pa...]]

Hello @[Me...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your husband, to lose someone you've loved for 33 years has to have turned your life upside down.  And now, with the introduction of these medications, your life feels even more unmanageable.

My belief is the benzodiazepine is causing your problems, what you experienced in July was what we feel when we're in recovery after tapering, recovery feels a lot like withdrawal, and it can take months and sometimes years to feel normal again.

You've been on the drugs long enough to have become dependent, you are NOT addicted, this is a negative term which doesn't describe people who take the medication as directed and it doesn't describe you, even though you took more than prescribed.  When we become dependent on the dose we're prescribed, our body reaches tolerance and it takes more to achieve the same effect.

I'm glad to see you're still tapering but its too fast, cutting your dose by 50% will leave you non-functional, but something tells me you already know this.  We suggest reducing by about 5-10% every few weeks or whatever your symptoms will allow, using them to guide your taper will hopefully allow you to function.

Lets keep talking, we want to help you but just one more thing, you are not frying your brain so please don't worry even though this process is all about fear and pain.  You're going to be okay, we'll help you get through this.

@[Pa...]

[[Me...]]

Thank you for your prompt response and support.  I really do need it.  I was warned off Ativan but needed relief, which has to be a common theme.   I will have to ask my MD to prescribe me more than, as she said I could just stop taking it at .5 so I don't have enough for slower taper.   Questions:  should I return to the .5 and start over slowly?.  But how to take those tiny .5 pills and cut them?  Klonopin was easier. 

[[Pa...]]

If you're suffering too much then it might be a good idea to go back to .5, but this is up to you, are you confident your doctor will allow this, not many in the medical field have a good understanding of the proper way to taper, it must be patient led, you're the only one who knows what you can withstand.

We have many tricks to help you cut those tiny pills, but Ativan/Lorazepam is available from the manufacturer in liquid form, in case your doctor would be willing to write the script.  Many of our members use a jewelers scale to weigh their doses, others make their own liquid to help with those small doses.  I'll leave you a couple of links to helpful information.  But please, don't be overwhelmed, we understand our cognitive abilities are compromised while going through this so we'll be here to explain and decipher.  

Titration - BenzoBuddies - Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Support

This is for your doctor, hopefully it will convince her of the need to do this slowly.

Benzodiazepine Deprescribing Guidance (corxconsortium.org)

I'm not sure, did you tell me how often you dose in a day, Ativan has a much shorter half life than Klonopin so I was wondering if you're experiencing interdose withdrawal?

[[Co...]]

I too am so sorry for your loss, and don’t want you to downplay the role that is playing in your depression. I hope you will seek as much support as you can during the time it will take to process this, whether it be therapy, a grief support group, family and friends, or all of the above. I do agree with Pamster about the benzo withdrawal contributing to your anxiety and depression. I am curious to know whether you are still on the Seroquel, and what the dosage was. It is a very powerful drug, with withdrawal symptoms of it’s own. Adding the Zoloft to the mix can really start to make it difficult to know what drug is doing what if you haven’t stopped the Seroquel first. I had to stop my Seroquel before starting Zoloft due to an interaction between the two that my psychiatrist was concerned about. I used Remeron as a sleep aid, and it is not as powerful as Seroquel, but very effective in helping with sleep though it will make you very hungry and weight gain can be an issue. It was causing me to feel very fatigued the next day so I had to stop it too. Seroquel is normally prescribed for bipolar disorder and is an antipsychotic medication. Of course, everyone will react differently to these medications, which is why it is important not to have too complex of a cocktail going before you understand how your brain chemistry is reacting to each drug during the course leading to it’s efficacy. 
 

Please feel free to message me with any questions you may have about these other medications. Pamster has given you excellent resources for the benzodiazepines. Another option there, which may be in the literature she provided, is switching to Valium for your taper. Many here have tried this as it has a longer half life, and is easier to split the 2mgs tablets during the end of the taper. It is the route I am taking. Good luck and hang in there. 

[[Co...]]

I am sorry, but I did not follow protocol in suggesting that you private message me about the other medications, thus I must rescind that invitation. I am not a doctor, nor is anyone else here. If you do have questions about my experience with the other meds, you can ask me here and I will try to help in any way I can. You will be in my prayers. 

[[Me...]]

2 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I am sorry, but I did not follow protocol in suggesting that you private message me about the other medications, thus I must rescind that invitation. I am not a doctor, nor is anyone else here. If you do have questions about my experience with the other meds, you can ask me here and I will try to help in any way I can. You will be in my prayers. 

 

12 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I too am so sorry for your loss, and don’t want you to downplay the role that is playing in your depression. I hope you will seek as much support as you can during the time it will take to process this, whether it be therapy, a grief support group, family and friends, or all of the above. I do agree with Pamster about the benzo withdrawal contributing to your anxiety and depression. I am curious to know whether you are still on the Seroquel, and what the dosage was. It is a very powerful drug, with withdrawal symptoms of it’s own. Adding the Zoloft to the mix can really start to make it difficult to know what drug is doing what if you haven’t stopped the Seroquel first. I had to stop my Seroquel before starting Zoloft due to an interaction between the two that my psychiatrist was concerned about. I used Remeron as a sleep aid, and it is not as powerful as Seroquel, but very effective in helping with sleep though it will make you very hungry and weight gain can be an issue. It was causing me to feel very fatigued the next day so I had to stop it too. Seroquel is normally prescribed for bipolar disorder and is an antipsychotic medication. Of course, everyone will react differently to these medications, which is why it is important not to have too complex of a cocktail going before you understand how your brain chemistry is reacting to each drug during the course leading to it’s efficacy. 
 

Please feel free to message me with any questions you may have about these other medications. Pamster has given you excellent resources for the benzodiazepines. Another option there, which may be in the literature she provided, is switching to Valium for your taper. Many here have tried this as it has a longer half life, and is easier to split the 2mgs tablets during the end of the taper. It is the route I am taking. Good luck and hang in there. 

Thank you for your kind words.  It's very hard to distinguish between all the feelings of grief, depression and anxiety with so many changes to my life right now. I have a few therapists that I work with too.  Not working isn't helping.  I am sure many ppl here have had work issues as well.   I used 50 mg of Seroquel at bedtime with the Klonopin as I tapered from it.  I felt like it was a strong drug, but was assured it's a common dose and no problems just using it in such a low dose to get off klonopin..   I stopped it before starting the Sertaline.   But I think all of it was alot for me as I had never used anything before to sleep.  I only use Ativan to help sleep as well.   I will ask my Pscyh. nurse provider if I can do this for the valium taper.   I am afraid the pharmacy won't process either.  This is a very scary process!

[[Me...]]

Thank you for your kind words.  It's very hard to distinguish between all the feelings of grief, depression and anxiety with so many changes to my life right now. I have a few therapists that I work with too.  Not working isn't helping.  I am sure many ppl here have had work issues as well.   I used 50 mg of Seroquel at bedtime with the Klonopin as I tapered from it.  I felt like it was a strong drug, but was assured it's a common dose and no problems just using it in such a low dose to get off klonopin..   I stopped it before starting the Sertaline.   But I think all of it was alot for me as I had never used anything before to sleep.  I only use Ativan to help sleep as well.   I will ask my Pscyh. nurse provider if I can do this for the valium taper.   I am afraid the pharmacy won't process either.  This is a very scary process!

[[Co...]]

You are doing the best you can right now. 50mg of Seroquel is the normal dosage for sleep. I was on 300mgs for about ten years. I tapered down to 50mgs, then 25 mgs, and was finished.  I doubt you would be having any problems with withdrawals from the Seroquel at such a small dose for such a short period of time. Unfortunately, I have been through the pill mill for a large portion of my life, and can imagine that on top of the genuinely tragic nature of your situation, having to put pharmaceutical meds in your body for the first time seems unnatural and scary. The benzodiazepines are the ones to truly fear, and the others may only be necessary for a short time. Only you and your doctor can decide that. There is a therapeutic use for pharmaceutical medication when prescribed by a doctor you trust, but I wish I had done a lot more research on the medication I was prescribed so many years ago. There is no substitute for being your own advocate as a patient, and that is a big part of why I joined this forum. I have learned to listen to my body for reactions that just don’t seem normal after taking a new medication. I wish you the best and am so glad you felt the kindness that I intended from my heart. 

[[Me...]]

On 15/09/2024 at 19:10, [[P...] said:

Hello @[Me...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

I'm so very sorry for the loss of your husband, to lose someone you've loved for 33 years has to have turned your life upside down.  And now, with the introduction of these medications, your life feels even more unmanageable.

My belief is the benzodiazepine is causing your problems, what you experienced in July was what we feel when we're in recovery after tapering, recovery feels a lot like withdrawal, and it can take months and sometimes years to feel normal again.

You've been on the drugs long enough to have become dependent, you are NOT addicted, this is a negative term which doesn't describe people who take the medication as directed and it doesn't describe you, even though you took more than prescribed.  When we become dependent on the dose we're prescribed, our body reaches tolerance and it takes more to achieve the same effect.

I'm glad to see you're still tapering but its too fast, cutting your dose by 50% will leave you non-functional, but something tells me you already know this.  We suggest reducing by about 5-10% every few weeks or whatever your symptoms will allow, using them to guide your taper will hopefully allow you to function.

Lets keep talking, we want to help you but just one more thing, you are not frying your brain so please don't worry even though this process is all about fear and pain.  You're going to be okay, we'll help you get through this.

@[Pa...]

Hi Pam. I thought that I had followed up to your reply but it looks I did not.  My apologies!   Ok, it's now Oct. 12th and I got down to .05 of Ativan and now it seems I have reached a tolerance and experiencing severe anxiety and my Psych nurse put me on hydroxyzine to help sleep.  I've used it for 3 nights but last night the insomnia came back!   I was on klonopine 1mg from Mar-June then Ativan 1mg from June to Aug 15 and now I believe I am having kindling symptoms as you talked about.  My Pscyh nurse has listened to my stories for weeks how my hands are shaking, and she wasn't familiar with that symptom.   I am only on 150 mg of Sertraline and wonder if that's helping or hurting.   Would you recommend that I use half in the am and half in the pm ?   then start to taper even more.  At least my hands might not shake all day.    I am having bizarre other symptoms (mentioned in your blog )to but just thinking they were anxiety.   This is scary as hell and now I am taking care of my 87 yr. old Mother!

[[Me...]]

Hi Pam. I thought that I had followed up to your reply but it looks I did not.  My apologies!   Ok, it's now Oct. 12th and I got down to .05 of Ativan and now it seems I have reached a tolerance and experiencing severe anxiety and my Psych nurse put me on hydroxyzine to help sleep.  I've used it for 3 nights but last night the insomnia came back!   I was on klonopine 1mg from Mar-June then Ativan 1mg from June to Aug 15 and now I believe I am having kindling symptoms as you talked about.  My Pscyh nurse has listened to my stories for weeks how my hands are shaking, and she wasn't familiar with that symptom.   I am only on 150 mg of Sertraline and wonder if that's helping or hurting.   Would you recommend that I use half in the am and half in the pm ?   then start to taper even more.  At least my hands might not shake all day.    I am having bizarre other symptoms (mentioned in your blog )to but just thinking they were anxiety.   This is scary as hell and now I am taking care of my 87 yr. old Mother!

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Me...], its good to hear from you, but it sounds like you have your hands full, my father is 95 so I understand what you're dealing with.

Can you verify your dose of Ativan, is it .50 or .05?  And may I ask, are you only dosing once a day?  If so, then yes, dosing more often would be helpful, many of our members will dose Ativan 3 times a day.  But, if you decide to dose more often, don't reduce while making these changes, your body will have enough to deal with just doing that.

I'm not familiar with Sertraline but my feeling is, the more medications we add, the more side effects we'll have to deal with plus the possibility of having to do yet another taper.  I do understand wanting to blunt these awful symptoms with an adjunct medication but like you asked, is it really helping or could it be hurting?

 

[[Me...]]

I

1 minute ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[Me...], its good to hear from you, but it sounds like you have your hands full, my father is 95 so I understand what you're dealing with.

Can you verify your dose of Ativan, is it .50 or .05?  And may I ask, are you only dosing once a day?  If so, then yes, dosing more often would be helpful, many of our members will dose Ativan 3 times a day.  But, if you decide to dose more often, don't reduce while making these changes, your body will have enough to deal with just doing that.

I'm not familiar with Sertraline but my feeling is, the more medications we add, the more side effects we'll have to deal with plus the possibility of having to do yet another taper.  I do understand wanting to blunt these awful symptoms with an adjunct medication but like you asked, is it really helping or could it be hurting?

1 minute ago, [[P...] said:

Hi @[Me...], its good to hear from you, but it sounds like you have your hands full, my father is 95 so I understand what you're dealing with.

Can you verify your dose of Ativan, is it .50 or .05?  And may I ask, are you only dosing once a day?  If so, then yes, dosing more often would be helpful, many of our members will dose Ativan 3 times a day.  But, if you decide to dose more often, don't reduce while making these changes, your body will have enough to deal with just doing that.

I'm not familiar with Sertraline but my feeling is, the more medications we add, the more side effects we'll have to deal with plus the possibility of having to do yet another taper.  I do understand wanting to blunt these awful symptoms with an adjunct medication but like you asked, is it really helping or could it be hurting?

@[Pa...]    Sertraline is Zoloft.   I am down to .5 from 1 mg. and having a tolerance problem.  I just went and put .25 under my tongue.   Wondering if I should go up to .75 and start over.  I can't stand this and can't have insomnia again. 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Pam. I thought that I had followed up to your reply but it looks I did not.  My apologies!   Ok, it's now Oct. 12th and I got down to .05 of Ativan and now it seems I have reached a tolerance and experiencing severe anxiety and my Psych nurse put me on hydroxyzine to help sleep.  I've used it for 3 nights but last night the insomnia came back!   I was on klonopine 1mg from Mar-June then Ativan 1mg from June to Aug 15 and now I believe I am having kindling symptoms as you talked about.  My Pscyh nurse has listened to my stories for weeks how my hands are shaking, and she wasn't familiar with that symptom.   I am only on 150 mg of Sertraline and wonder if that's helping or hurting.   Would you recommend that I use half in the am and half in the pm ?   then start to taper even more.  At least my hands might not shake all day.    I am having bizarre other symptoms (mentioned in your blog )to but just thinking they were anxiety.   This is scary as hell and now I am taking care of my 87 yr. old Mother!

[[Me...]]

@[Pa...]   Sorry for my bad manners while in a panic.   Wow!  your Dad is 95 that's amazing.  My poor Mom broke out in Shingles and now has horrible pain.   This isn't helping 

[[Pa...]]

I wouldn't recommend going up in dose @[Me...], holding works for many members, their symptoms begin to level and they feel some relief.  How long have you been at .5 mg and how many days does it typically take your symptoms to peak and fade?

I know you just took .25 but lets not call that an up-dose, lets call it a rescue dose, a one time thing. 

Thank you but you don't have bad manners, you're in pain and that can put a damper on social niceties, I understand.

[[Me...]]

@[Pa...]   Thanks for your understanding.  I have been at .5 since august 15th.     I will try the other .25 at bedtime with the hydroxyzine and try splitting the dose tomorrow and see if that helps.  But the anxiety is off the charts (as you know).    Have you heard of the hydroxyzine to help sleep?    I simply can't handle the insomnia again.  

[[Pa...]]

Mmmm, I hoped you'd be able to see some improvement in a months time.  I'm doubtful another .25 will help you sleep but I could be wrong, I hope you'll check in tomorrow.  Yes, please consider dosing more than once a day, but be warned, it may help with your daytime symptoms but sleep could be affected

[[Me...]]

@[Pa...]I will check in tomorrow.  But def hold steady even if I feel like I am having a heart attack?   Have a great evening, hope you get a break

 

[[Pa...]]

How is it going @[Me...], are you splitting your doses?

[[Me...]]

@[Pa...] Thanks for checking in !  I tried splitting the doses, but now I have insomnia and lots of body jerks. My Psych nurse suggested I use Hydroxyzine along side the. 25 at night but didn't put me to sleep last night.  I tried pairing with Seroquel when I tapered from Klonopin in the spring.    But all these drugs in my system concern me as I am on Zoloft as well.   Any proven ways to sleep during withdrawal?    Insomnia was the reason I went to the ER and got on these.   

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[Me...], insomnia is a pretty universal symptom, we have a member who spent a lot of time compiling helpful information, but I'm afraid there is no magic bullet for this, we have to suffer through it. 

I'm in agreement with you about the extra medications, once we've been bitten by benzo's and their wrath, its difficult to trust we'll be okay if we add anymore to the equation.

So, do you feel like splitting your dose helped you overall or did things get worse?

 

[[Ta...]]

On 12/10/2024 at 18:55, [[M...] said:

@[Pa...]   Thanks for your understanding.  I have been at .5 since august 15th.     I will try the other .25 at bedtime with the hydroxyzine and try splitting the dose tomorrow and see if that helps.  But the anxiety is off the charts (as you know).    Have you heard of the hydroxyzine to help sleep?    I simply can't handle the insomnia again.  

Have you tried just taking a Benadryl for sleep? I had better luck with that than Hydroxyzine.

I lost my husband 20 years ago, and they put me on lorazepam. I know this is really really really hard. But it gets better.

[[Cu...]]

My sister says she takes 100 mg of Benadryl night to sleep. She’s been doing this for years. I tried it and I only slept sporadically. So I stopped after several tries. It also gave me dry mouth. Withdrawal insomnia is a B1tch!!

[[Ta...]]

7 hours ago, [[C...] said:

My sister says she takes 100 mg of Benadryl night to sleep. She’s been doing this for years. I tried it and I only slept sporadically. So I stopped after several tries. It also gave me dry mouth. Withdrawal insomnia is a B1tch!!

100 mg is four benadryl tablets.  WOW! That would turn me into "jerky!" Try taking just one. That knocks me out.