Intro

[[bu...]]

Been on benzos for a year.  1x 10 mg of Valium a day.  Was on Vicodin 2x 7.5mg for 2 years.   Tried to cold turkey both for 12 days.  Off the vicodin now.  Hallucinated myself into an abandoned/moved jail where I got locked in but I got out fortunately.  Left for there without my car and without my shoes.  Police were called and my family and friends thought I could have been kidnapped or foul play and searched for me.  They were all worried to death.  Went to the E.R., was given a script for klonopin .5mg x2 a day for 7 days and then the next 7 days .5mg x1 a day.  Had to cold turkey again without any help because couldn't see a doc until 7 days later.  Almost 2 weeks later ended up in the psych hospital just to get someone to give me a wean schedule (but had 0.5mg klonopin to hold me over).  Now I feel almost normal, 75% there or so on the 2x .5mg of klonopin a day.  They are weaning me down (in 4 weeks) from the 1 mg of klonopin to 0 (1,.75,.5,.25).  I'm on day 4 of 28 so I feel like I can function better than before but don't know how well later.

 

I really wonder if this is a fast taper off of this and what to expect when I am all off totally and about how long it will last.  I feel/am thinking like it will put me in about 6 weeks of the cold turkey state from all I have gathered.

[[Pa...]]

Hello Buddaloomsky, Welcome to BenzoBuddies!

 

Oh man, you've had it rough, I'm so sorry to hear about your cold turkey, I understand it well, I did it too.  Your body has been through some shock and it takes awhile to get right after that.  Typically we suggest folks taper just a fraction of their dose every week or two, what is being recommended to you seems a bit rapid, considering the difficulty you've faced recently.  Would your Dr be amendable to slowing it down a bit, letting your body be your guide as to how fast to taper?

 

Please let us know how we can help.

 

Pam

[[bu...]]

Before I left the hospital, I asked him if its possible to extend it and he said call if I have any issues.  I also brought up the fact that I've heard that valium is better to use to taper than klonopin because it has a longer half-life.  He kept on telling me that klonopin has the longest half-life.

 

I guess he's been doing this stuff for years and gotten people off of benzos before but it sounds like he may like doing it the painful way.

 

I probably could talk to him like he mentioned about the speed of it all coming up if I run into issues.

 

Another think I've had issue with is changing for valium to klonopin over the last month+.  It doesn't seem to work near as well for me.  Maybe my body is used to the amount of valium in my system since it lasts a lot longer?

[[Pa...]]

Here is the resource we use for equivalencies and half life, not sure why your Dr would say Klonopin has a longer half life?  http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm  Hopefully the two of you can come to an agreement if things get too rough for you, you should be okay to taper at the rate your Dr has in mind for you until you get to .5, since that will equal the 10 mgs of Valium you were on previously, but it would be good if you could slow it down at that point.

 

Valium and Klonopin have different properties, many people say they can feel the difference.  Since you were put on twice the amount of Klonopin as the Valium you were taking, you should be feeling okay, maybe not "normal", but functional.

 

 

[[bu...]]

It would be good to talk to him about slowing it down.  I asked him how long till I feel better after I take my last pill and he said 2 months.  I know that's not long for a lot of people but for any person that's a long time.  I wonder if it could take less time?  I don't think I'll plan on it....

[[Pa...]]

Valid questions, but alas we have no answers and I can see you're not really expecting any.  You're right, when you feel horrible, 2 months is a terribly long time, and because this hits us from every imaginable angle, physical, mental, psychological and emotional, we're left with no coping skills to help us through it.

[[bu...]]

The biggest issue is the doctor is one that is for the hospital I was at and not an outpatient doctor.  Today I see the doctor I normally see (or at least saw since all this started).  I had an appointment yesterday about starting up in a group.  The person there told me to set an appointment up with my regular doc that I'm seeing today and luckily for me I can see him today.

 

I decided if he won't help me wean, I'm not going to go to the group and I'm going to get myself off of this stuff by weaning myself since the only option is cold turkey anyways.

[[bu...]]

Now it sounds like he will work with me so I will take those 5-day a week meetings.  They can monitor me there.  He told me he wants me to stay on 2x 0.5mg klonopin until the group starts in a couple weeks.  I don't want withdrawal but sometimes the sooner the better I can start to feel normal again.

[[Be...]]

Sounds like a plan, buddaloomsky.    I'm so glad to learn your doctor will work with you.  Try not to get too impatient about getting off. I know it can be difficult once you make up your mind to quit but you know from past experience that it's best to go slow.  Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[[bu...]]

Very true.  I think I should enjoy my 80-90% brain function while it lasts....

[[Pa...]]

Very true.  I think I should enjoy my 80-90% brain function while it lasts....

 

[[bu...]]

still dont know when my group starts.  they keep saying 2 weeks but that should put it next week.  I just want to know what my fate will be.  This weird alternative of 10mg of valium to 1.0mg of klonopin is something else.  I still can't say I'm 100% here but it makes me wonder if its like a dose raise.  2 - 10's.  Then again the amount that stays in your system from the 1/4 length of half-life might really make it work closer to the valium.  Can't figure all this out. 

[[Pa...]]

What is your current dose?

[[bu...]]

i was on 10 mg of valium but then now the doc has me set at 2 0.5mg of klonopin to make me feel pretty much functional and close to normal.  Originally, a different doctor at the place wanted me to cut my dose from that 1mg down 0.25 each week but I told my doctor that I was very afraid that was very fast because just 1 0.5mg klonopin was pretty bad on me.  He told me to keep my dose (which could be 3 weeks total) at the 2 0.5mg's a day until group starts so they can monitor me there and make sure nothing bad happens.  Its a 5 day a week class.  I was taking the valium off the streets but chose to get off of it and now would prefer a doctor to back me up getting me off this unless I find it to be too cumbersome and they decide to just totally cut me off and hallucinate myself back in a dark abandoned building for 2 1/2 days again....

[[Pa...]]

You should feel pretty good on the 1 mg a day since it's twice the amount of Valium you were taking.  I sure hope the Dr's didn't double your dose only to try to bring you off of it too quickly.  I'm glad though, that you're off of the street Valium, working with a Dr and planning to attend the group.  I would be very interested in hearing what it involves, who the other participants are and what they're all about.  I hope you'll keep posting so we can learn about it.

[[bu...]]

I know they don't act the same, valium and klonopin.  It takes 2 of the 0.5's  for me to feel normal on the klonopin vs the 10 mg of valium.  maybe its because of the fact that the valium keeps about 100 mg in your system when you take it every day and 1 of the 0.5 keeps about 2.5 mgs.  Its something like that.  I just know that its four times the amount in your system and so 2 0.5's would be half of the amount 1 10mg of valium keeps in your system.

[[Pa...]]

You've confused me, but the most important thing is that you're stable, and when you begin your program, you'll be starting from a good place, if you can call any of this good, that is. 

[[bu...]]

I was just commenting on how Klonopin, there's about 2 to 3 pills in your system already everyday per pill you take of it when you take it daily so that would be about 8 to 12 pills of valium in your system everyday.

 

My group starts Tuesday so I guess the insanity starts then too.  I know its not going to be one of them experiences that they want to give you the least pain possible.  They put me on Klonopin and that's proof enough.

[[Pa...]]

I hope you'll keep checking in, letting us know how its going.

[[bu...]]

That 5 day a week group, I'm required to go to at least 2 days a week of Narcotics Anonymous.  I don't think I'm going to do it.  The classes are a little overkill as is.  If my doctor won't work with me, then I'll just have to find another one or go to the streets to find a way to get off the stuff.

 

I gave it all up but benzos are different than Vicodin.  I was without benzos for 12 days.  I'm not one that needs someone to tell me to get off of it and all the other stuff that crackheads get because they love their crack so much....  Last I checked, this place was for people that wanted to be off of this stuff, went through the difficulty of getting off of the stuff, or have issues with it, not some crazy party where where everyone celebrating crack rocks, meth, etc.  This would at least be indicative of my intentions.

 

Sorry for the rant; these doctors and helper-type people can be a pain more times than not, at least for me.

[[Pa...]]

I'm a recovering alcoholic and know that benzo's are a totally different animal, the 12 steps don't work for benzo's.  We don't need help in staying away from them, we need help in coping with the pain stopping them brings to our door.  We don't need a social replacement for the party called benzo's, because we didn't take them to get high.  Most of the people here took these drugs in the prescribed amounts, never realizing their bodies were becoming dependent on them.  They don't need someone telling them they're an addict, they need people who understand what happened to them and help them through it, not labels.  Sorry for the rant. 

[[bu...]]

Exactly, exactly, and exactly.  I understand totally.  When you use the stuff, you use it to be normal and not withdrawing.  Withdrawal is the biggest thing that you need help with so you can free yourself from it.  If not for the withdrawal, some people would be long gone from using any of this stuff.  The prescribed amount thing you said fits tons of people.  Even those people that were 'self medicating' such as myself.  When one says enough is enough, they don't want to drag it on any longer than need be.  This kind of thing calls for rants I guess. 

[[bu...]]

I went to the doctor yesterday.  He pretty much told me I can come off of the stuff at my own pace.  I can go down whatever dose in whatever time I want.

 

Now I'm trying to figure out how I want to do this.  I still feel some withdrawals from going down half a pill last week but they aren't too bad.  I take half a pill in the morning an hour or a little more after I wake up, 11:AM (0.25) and 1 at 5:PM (.5).  I feel the worse of my withdrawals between doses.  After my second dose, I feel decent and like to get out of the house then.  During the time I'm awake until my second dose, I get really tired and feel like I want to nap which I do every day (except yesterday).

 

I wonder if Tuesday, which would make it two weeks would be a good time to drop a quarter of a pill (evening) or if I should wait till I feel really well.  I'm thinking I should wait till I know I'm feeling really well.  Any ideas anyone?

[[Be...]]

I think the longer you are on a benzo, the better the chance of becoming tolerant.  Then you get withdrawal symptoms even without reducing your dose; it's a pretty miserable way to taper off.  As long as I felt the symptoms were manageable, I went ahead and did my every two week cut.  I'm afraid I would have suffered longer if I hadn't pushed ahead.

[[Pa...]]

I'm glad to hear your Dr is letting you do this right, that helps.  It's tough to know how you need to do this, you'll probably have to do some experimenting and play it by ear.  Some folks work better on a schedule, others need to wait for the right time, it sounds miserable to me.  I'm glad I didn't know any better and quit cold turkey, too many decisions to make when we're not in the best shape to make them.