Mark Horowitz 'academic coaching'

[[re...]]

I really dig you Colin and your fairness but doctors are BULLETPROOF in all of this. 

I sought out legal recourse from what was done to me in the ER and if it goes to jury the vast population on those juries still keep doctors on high godlike status in their minds. They actually try and NOT settle out of court, as the litigation if it goes to the court it is usually against the harmed patient. 

I don't want a society against doctors and them being afraid of practicing medicine as they can save lives and have proved this over and over again. But IF and when they harm someone the vast majority it is "business as usual" And there is NO recourse. Until it possibly gets to the class action level. 

These people are cutting nerves in neck surgery and they are not being held liable many times. Believe me. I have done so many case studies on this. 

[[Co...]]

Just now, [[K...] said:

Please may I respectfully urge an update to the community guidelines to enable members to know exactly what currently is/is not permitted. That would give clarity for the avoidance of any doubt. Then members may abide by relevant rules in place. 

The rules, as they relate to this matter, are already slated for an update. We will also provide members with more comprehensive advice. But this only extends our community guidelines which disallow members from providing one-on-one support. Recommending (unqualified) outsiders for one-on-one support is surely analogous (and worse). The underlying rationale for our position is very similar.

[[Ka...]]

That’s good to know.
But restrict recommendations is rather woolly. 

[[re...]]

I know you said they are usually not liable and to prove it is something else. I am listening to you of course. 

But it is kind of a waste to suggest certified practioners that are certified by LAW when the law won't protect anyone but the person doing all the harm.  

I find that odd. Not on your behalf, but the bigger issue at hand which is patient harm. No matter what this has to be mitigated somehow. God only know how. 

[[re...]]

This site has been WAY more therapeutic (getting it out ) for me than any 'certified' counselor. 

Ya all rock. 

[[Co...]]

[[re...]]

I am sorry Nlav  for all this madness in your thread. But believe me it is for the greater good. 

Where you are in India it seems especially hard to find any benzo wise docs. I had mentioned that to you before. 

I think you should just get a prescribing doc to keep you going maybe even on Klonopin if you can't get the Diazepam to agree with your body while you find a sensible taper plan. 

[[Co...]]

39 minutes ago, [[K...] said:

That’s good to know.
But restrict recommendations is rather woolly. 

Well, I expect the actual rule will be more unequivocal.  

[[re...]]

Nlav I would try to move away slowly from that Ativan at all costs.  It seems really nasty that one and even Ashton and her people have said this. I have a terrible time with that one anytime I have taken it. 

That doesn't mean you can't go off directly from this one. It just seems real difficult. (See: Nsindy)

[[Ma...]]

38 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

I find that odd. Not on your behalf, but the bigger issue at hand which is patient harm. No matter what this has to be mitigated somehow. God only know how. 

It’s mitigated by better education in medical schools and residency programs, which is happening,  but you’re not going to see the full effects of it until best practices are widely adopted.  That doesn’t happen overnight - just like any other new treatment in medicine.   It happens by changing the curriculum and improving continuing medical education programs.  It used to be best practice, for example, to do mastectomies for every breast cancer.  It wasn’t overnight that all surgeons suddenly started doing standard of care which is now breast conservation therapy.  It takes a long time and the re-education of many many practitioners.  

[[Ma...]]

To my point, this is a well cited study from not too long ago (2010) that often comes up on Google searches about tapering benzos.  95% of the patients in the study got off Clonazepam in 4 months, dropping the last 1mg by .25mg a week.  And these were patients taking benzos for at least a few years and at high doses.  Sounds crazy to those of us in here, but there are lots of patients who get off these drugs with less difficulty.  So if a physician sees studies like this, they think it’s a reasonable approach if it works for 95%:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20473065/

Edited May 21 by [Ma...]

[[Re...]]

1 hour ago, [[C...] said:

An unqualified doctor or counsellor (a 'coach') is necessarily bad. It is utterly irresponsible and should automatically disqualify them as a provider when seeking withdrawal or taper services.

I acknowledge your perspective @[Co...], and I'd like to offer a counterpoint to this point as I have understood it. In certain instances, coaches have played a pivotal role in saving lives. Despite consulting some of the most esteemed doctors in America, I found myself in the position of being harmed. These medical professionals who harmed me were highly qualified by societal standards. However, it was through the guidance of two coaches, both recommended from members on this site,  that I gained clarity and reached a point where I could make informed decisions based on evidence-backed information and stop further harm. While it would be beneficial to have more regulatory oversight in the coaching industry, unfortunately, that's the world we live in. Similarly, there's a lack of oversight in other qualifications like 'cosmetic doctor,' where any medical practitioner, regardless of specific training, can adopt such titles. This reality underscores the continual failure of regulation in our society.

[[re...]]

I agree with you that it isn't overnight for sure and you are a bit more optimistic than me and that is great. We need some of that here. And especially someone like yourself that is in the medical field that can hopefully raise more awareness Peter Attia style. I really respect him. And there are some trailblazers just not enough.

But the modern medical model seems to be devolving into an AI and biotech nightmare over the true health of it's population. And until an FDA head has NOT been on some Pharma board prior to his FDA position. Then I will remain aggressive in my critical opinion to the whole modern model practice mental health included. 

And once again I will stand firm on this (not you friend just in general) is the influence that the behemoth that is modern Pharmaceuticals have on these advancements of possibly life style changes as well as emerging treatments and education. It's a whole mess from insurance to pharma and it feels like a revolving door. Take taxpayer money, give out healthcare and it's treatment for free or make employers pay to give their employees healthcare only for all of it to end up in the pockets of pharma giants. I mean until I see a neurologist prescribe a ketogenic diet AND insurance pay for this diet of someone with extreme 'refractory' epilepsy then I won't change my stance on ANY of what I am saying. 

There does seem to be this 'cigarette science' component to all of this. 

I believe about  4% of health research and RCT's are dedicated to lifestyle change. The rest 96% is geared towards more and more drugs. And why wouldn't it be. The price for a 4 phase trial runs about 60 Million Dollars. That is a lot of scratch and who really would want to fund that if there is no return on investment. The Philanthropy movement is mostly tax write offs and self intere$t any clear headed person can see for miles.   

It seems from Jama to the New England Journal of medicine from what I have seen has some serious ghost writing and drug co influence as well and these are very credible sources in medical circles. 

I am just a layman trying to protect myself and others who have been harmed from these people and their dinosaur approach to issues of the brain/mental health. 

 

[[re...]]

The problem is that study is from 2010. Try to follow me and please try and understand I am not trying to be contrarian here at all no way. I want hope on a study like this. I am a bit jaded and cynical and this is getting me thru and keeps the fight in me going. 

Medical care IMO was WAY more caring and patient centered when I went through my first ordeal with Klonopin in 2008. I think the current environment with it's artificial way of living has really put a hard strain on the human condition. 

I have a theory (and of course it is only a theory) that we are just not evolved for human 2.0 and we will always be primal in our nature no matter how hard we want to be 'advanced'. And all the overintellectualizing will not change this one bit. 

And this human condition cannot really be drugged into oblivion and we need to do what we always have. Get sun, stay off computer/phone screens, run and move like crazy and when the sun goes down, stay in the dark. There are still major crimes of passion and people doing all kinds of crazy stuff right now in all socioeconomic classes and even at the very top with their greed schemes and survival of their genes is unfortunately more important than ethics or the safety of other people. And it comes down to "me and mine"

But what I cannot stand is this wolf in sheep's clothing horseshit spouting this.....  "even ONE life is sacred" during covid when everything they have done to us here screams to me MANY lives don't seem to matter. 

I disagree Mattwhaoo that we are some minority here. I know you are talking just withdrawal and quick taper. But at the same time I think we just don't know how many are still going to their doctors faithfully even though they keep getting sicker and sicker and going thru tons of tests only to be given more and more medication (especially head meds) and possibly gaslit and told it's their "existing condition turning up" on a cascade of strong medication to the detriment of possibly permanent ill health. And once THOSE people try and taper................ oh god YIKES!!!!!

It will be NOTHING like the study you have showed. Cause they already crossed a point of no return of serious sickness FROM this cascade of medications.  

[[Ma...]]

Definitely a bigger discussion, but couldn’t agree more with you re: the pharmaceutical industry.  It’s a total racket.  

[[re...]]

Mattwahoo:

I am not trying to be a pain and respect your perspective a lot. I pray people like yourself can raise awareness about this problem at least with tapers. You can't tackle it all. No one person can. 

Rock on man.

[[Ma...]]

5 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

I disagree Mattwhaoo that we are some minority here. I know you are talking just withdrawal and quick taper. But at the same time I think we just don't know how many are still going to their doctors faithfully even though they keep getting sicker and sicker and going thru tons of tests only to be given more and more medication (especially head meds) and possibly gaslit and told it's their "existing condition turning up" on a cascade of strong medication to the detriment of possibly permanent ill health. And once THOSE people try and taper................ oh god YIKES!!!!!

It will be NOTHING like the study you have showed. Cause they already crossed a point of no return of serious sickness FROM this cascade of medications.  

I only mentioned the study because I can see where a physician would look at those results and think the deprescibing described there is usually a reasonable schedule if it was successful for 95% of people.  In actuality, you and I know it’s way too fast for many people, certainly more than 5%.  But how many/what percent?,  I don’t know (because nobody to my knowledge has actually done that study and places like BB are self selecting populations). Like I said, there’s a real knowledge gap out there on this particular topic that’s only beginning to be filled.  

[Guest [Do...]]

1 hour ago, [[r...] said:

Nlav I would try to move away slowly from that Ativan at all costs.  It seems really nasty that one and even Ashton and her people have said this. I have a terrible time with that one anytime I have taken it. 

That doesn't mean you can't go off directly from this one. It just seems real difficult. (See: Nsindy)

Totally support all that has been said here. Lorazepam seems imposible to taper from safely.

[[re...]]

I agree with you Mattwahoo on seeing the pov of the actual physician. Great post

[Guest [Do...]]

1 hour ago, [[M...] said:

It’s mitigated by better education in medical schools and residency programs, which is happening,  but you’re not going to see the full effects of it until best practices are widely adopted.  That doesn’t happen overnight - just like any other new treatment in medicine.   It happens by changing the curriculum and improving continuing medical education programs.  It used to be best practice, for example, to do mastectomies for every breast cancer.  It wasn’t overnight that all surgeons suddenly started doing standard of care which is now breast conservation therapy.  It takes a long time and the re-education of many many practitioners.  

The criminal (psychiatrist) that put me in this hell is a senior doc that has writen in his web site that as he has many decades of experience he is not willing to take any new parctice or info cause he knows what works the best. This is the same guy that told me that benzos were safe and non adictive.

[[re...]]

Dolvian:

DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh I get soooooo worked up at these shills. 

[[Re...]]

14 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

Mattwahoo:

I am not trying to be a pain and respect your perspective a lot. I pray people like yourself can raise awareness about this problem at least with tapers. You can't tackle it all. No one person can. 

Rock on man.

@[Ma...] @[re...] I have not read your entire conversation but I appreciate the camaraderie I am seeing in these last comments. We are all here because mainstream science and the medical system failed us. Therefore, the trust has been broken, right? We're a diverse community with varying levels of knowledge and experiences, all on our own paths, striving to support each other as best we can.  I value respectful discussions where everyone's perspective is heard. It's important to remember that some members choose to keep certain details private for professional reasons, so making assumptions can be unhelpful. After all, online, you never truly know who you're engaging with—I could be anyone, even a renowned psychiatrist (though I'm not). Critiquing someone's credibility without full context serves little purpose, especially when we're all dealing with our own share of challenges. Let's focus on supporting each other rather than adding unnecessary drama to our lives. That is my singular perspective in a sea of many humans.

[[Re...]]

7 minutes ago, [[D...] said:

The criminal (psychiatrist) that put me in this hell is a senior doc that has writen in his web site that as he has many decades of experience he is not willing to take any new parctice or info cause he knows what works the best. This is the same guy that told me that benzos were safe and non adictive.

Some are like this, unfortunately. This is why patient advocacy was so key in my experience. In my situation, that came from coaches and other types of medical professionals working alongside them. Taking on a paradigm required a small army.

[[re...]]

Rebecca:

Yes civil discourse is crucial in all of this. 

You are right on point with this. 

Sad thing is most of us are suffering here and we have more tact than our leaders and titans of business do. 

An unfortunate reality. But at least we are trying to slay the same monster albeit in different ways. 

[Guest [Do...]]

44 minutes ago, [[r...] said:

we just don't know how many are still going to their doctors faithfully even though they keep getting sicker and sicker and going thru tons of tests only to be given more and more medication (especially head meds) and possibly gaslit and told it's their "existing condition turning up" on a cascade of strong medication to the detriment of possibly permanent ill health. And once THOSE people try and taper................ oh god YIKES!!!!!

Last week there was a documentary on prime time tv in my country about the "benzo problem" and they said it was a problem cause there was too many people taking it daily but then the showed that the only adicts are polidrug users and the ones that have a real problem and an old woman that has been taking benzos for 10 years said that she felt safe on benzos cause she only takes what her doctor prescribes... i went WHAT???

Those are mayority and if one day they decide to come off this drug then they will be in our team.

Edited May 21 by Guest