Crashed again. Looking to go back to Antidepressant.

[[Ol...]]

After crashing again with the clonidine and the .5mg Klonopin added for sleep. I am broken. I must get back on my feet. If I, with my TWO doctors help, cannot get me on a suitable AD I will go back to the booze. I don’t want that after 39 years of sobriety but I will do it as a last resort. I used bentos responsibly I will do the same with alcohol. 

[[Ol...]]

Just now, [[O...] said:

After crashing again with the clonidine and the .5mg Klonopin added for sleep. I am broken. I must get back on my feet. If I, with my TWO doctors help, cannot get me on a suitable AD I will go back to the booze. I don’t want that after 39 years of sobriety but I will do it as a last resort. I used Benzo’z and AD's responsibly, I will do the same with alcohol. I played by every damn rule there was in my life. followed every order the doctors gave. And look at this crap now. Supposed to be living the dream and instead stuck in hell. I am the main caregiver to my wife, totally blind, diabetic, heart disease. Without me she could not survive after me taking care of everything all these years. I will not let that happen. I am sorry everyone, but I am so damn angry, hurt, broken and tired.  

 

[[Th...]]

Alcohol works on GABA receptors just like Benzos do, so unfortunately your course of action will only make things worse. Benzos are designed for short-term use (2-4 weeks maximum), but doctors love to prescribe them long-term (for months, years or decades) as they don't recognize or believe in Benzo withdrawal.  Unfortunately there are shortcuts or ways over, under or around the healing and recovery process.  The only way out of the mess you are in is through the "process" of withdrawal.  Your body knows how to fix the damage and time is what is needed to heal and/or regrow GABA receptors!

The rules you played by were wrong from the start, so that's why you are in the position you are in now.  If doctors only knew the damage Benzos and ADs could cause they wouldn't "make up the rules" of how to use them as the patient is the only one that suffers from their lack of drug knowledge.  I am sorry that you are angry, hurt and broken.  That's exactly what I experienced along with countless others on this forum.  I'd avoid all future Benzo and Alcohol use and be careful with ADs.  Good luck.  

[[Si...]]

@[Ol...] what are your symptoms?  is the anxiety in your chest?

I'm so sorry this happened to you.  I've been following your story.  it's frightening. Are you still off the k? Does the clonidine not help much? I wouldn't drink; if a few benzos after surgery screwed you over the drink will probably do the same, and not work just like the k stopped working.  maybe you could take a benzo replacement drug, like a gabapentinoid or ad, and then taper off that in a few weeks.  

[[Ma...]]

Okay, look, some people in w/d can manage alcohol-responsibly-others cannot.

 If you have 39 years of ‘sobriety’ I would guess alcohol may have been a problem for you in the past. I hear your desperation for relief, any relief, but only you know what you went through to get sober. Did you go to AA? Perhaps listen to a meeting online to get back-to-the-basics of your sobriety and REMEMBER just how far you have come.

Clonidine works for some, others no. Try, try something else until you find what works for you.

A lot of people on this forum are going to give a litany against AD’s, supplements, whatever…

Gather what you can here but remember you are reading opinions based on experiences, mostly experiences that have been brutal so use your filter. Everyone means well but: filter.

I can’t remember your entire story. Is sleep the issue? Didn’t Collin say he used Hydroxyzine, an antihistamine, to help with sleep? Have you tried that?

Keep going. Just minute by minute if that’s what it takes. You’ll get there!

[[Ma...]]

Have you tried Remeron? Mirtazapine? Use the search here-many, many in w/d use this AD, very successfully, and primarily for sleep but also depression. Unlike SSRI’s it works really quickly, like immediately for sleep.

[[Ol...]]

@[Th...] Thank you, of course you are 100%. As the days pass, 14 now, this was a reaction to anesthesia of Oxy, or Fentanyl on the PSTD that will always be there. Always. The past anxiety and the past depression that I fought and tapered the meds down from so courageously, those abnormalities are still there. Hiding. The surgery just rattled the hole they were hiding in.

42 minutes ago, [[M...] said:

Have you tried Remeron? Mirtazapine? Use the search here-many, many in w/d use this AD, very successfully, and primarily for sleep but also depression. Unlike SSRI’s it works really quickly, like immediately for sleep.

Years ago the Pdoc threw in Remeron, low dose, 15mg & 7mg for better sleep. 

[[Ol...]]

@[Ma...] Thank you also. You too are correct. My BP is still pretty high and now they want to add Risperidone to knock me out for sleep. I AM EXHAUSTED TIRED. Thanks everyone . The booze comment was an old Irishman making noise.  You BB’s are the best 

[[Li...]]

@[Ol...] I am still on paroxetine 40mg.  I'm 8 weeks off Valium and being HAMMERED with neurological symptoms after a near perfect window of 4 days.  Hang in there.  This support group is literally all I have 🙏❤️🙏

[[Ol...]]

@[Li...] Thank you. Yes this is the best group ever. Colin and Pamster took me under the wing and gave me faith. I am hurting now, but I will keep fighting. Best to you LisaN

[[Ol...]]

@[Si...] Thank you for your thoughts. The anxiety actually fells like its in my entire body. But I know some of what we feel is the meds and the “lack of appetite that seems to have a presence always. I don’t know why I revert bCK TO SAYING I WILL DRINK AGAIN. I’m now 70 and have not touched a drink in 39 years. 

[[Bu...]]

Hey @[Ol...],

I am so sorry for everything that has happened to you.  I don't have any particular advice.  I just wanted to say how impressive 39 years of sobriety is.   You should be very, very proud. 

Blessings

[[or...]]

18 hours ago, [[O...] said:

18 hours ago, [[O...] said:

After crashing again with the clonidine and the .5mg Klonopin added for sleep. I am broken. I must get back on my feet. If I, with my TWO doctors help, cannot get me on a suitable AD I will go back to the booze. I don’t want that after 39 years of sobriety but I will do it as a last resort. I used Benzo’z and AD's responsibly, I will do the same with alcohol. I played by every damn rule there was in my life. followed every order the doctors gave. And look at this crap now. Supposed to be living the dream and instead stuck in hell. I am the main caregiver to my wife, totally blind, diabetic, heart disease. Without me she could not survive after me taking care of everything all these years. I will not let that happen. I am sorry everyone, but I am so damn angry, hurt, broken and tired.  

Expand  

Well, you just met another Old School Benzo fool   I've tried a lot of things to "fix myself" from symptoms I never knew were coming from the benzo I was put on in 1988.

I'm so glad you are here and you are in the right place, and  I can't agree more with what @[Th...] had to say.  I found this place last March, and I was desperate for help, and I got so much more than just that.  I received hope at 71, that I have a future and quality of life thanks to learning how to taper, how to understand what is happening in my body.  That understanding has kept me coming back here to be with others that have gone before me, and to help others that are coming to find their way as well.

Hang in there, we all need each other, and not a one of us has to do this thing alone, even though it may seem like it some times, it's just one of the lies the benzos will try to convince us of, so glad you are here, sending hope and encouragement, oregonlady PS  I want to congratulate you on the 39 years of sobriety as well.  I had 15 years but messed up and moved away from my support group, ended up drinking again.  It was horrific, and I was lucky enough to stop again 20 years ago.  That's when I started looking at the drug and asking questions, but this forum has had everything to do with my progress so far

[[or...]]

5 hours ago, [[O...] said:

@[Ma...] Thank you also. You too are correct. My BP is still pretty high and now they want to add Risperidone to knock me out for sleep. I AM EXHAUSTED TIRED. Thanks everyone . The booze comment was an old Irishman making noise.  You BB’s are the best 

It gets better, I had hardly spent any time here after being pretty active, and I got so lonely as no one in the world can understand better than those that have been there and done that ♥️

[[An...]]

1 hour ago, [[B...] said:

Hey @[Ol...],

I am so sorry for everything that has happened to you.  I don't have any particular advice.  I just wanted to say how impressive 39 years of sobriety is.   You should be very, very proud. 

Blessings

I agree. 39 years is a long time @[Ol...]. Congrats! When you were still drinking, how much were you drinking? Were you also taking benzos then or did you start taking benzos after you stopped drinking?

[[Ol...]]

@[or...] Your words are true. I have again turned another corner. Increase of clonidine and I just got 10 hours of sleep thank God. I had been up 3 days. Boy, that booze was such a great anti-anxiety drug. I have told my PDoc that if they should only make a “two beer pill) slow release. Because there was nothing better than those first two beers/drinks at the end of the day. Congratulations to you also. I have told anyone who would listen alcohol is a formidable foe, be careful if you get in the ring with it. All the Best

[[or...]]

8 minutes ago, [[O...] said:

@[or...] Your words are true. I have again turned another corner. Increase of clonidine and I just got 10 hours of sleep thank God. I had been up 3 days. Boy, that booze was such a great anti-anxiety drug. I have told my PDoc that if they should only make a “two beer pill) slow release. Because there was nothing better than those first two beers/drinks at the end of the day. Congratulations to you also. I have told anyone who would listen alcohol is a formidable foe, be careful if you get in the ring with it. All the Best

When I think of "after the high" comes the dreaded low.  That's enough to keep me away from those quick fixes.  We were talking about the lies a benzo brain can tell us (in another thread), but even before benzos my head told me a lot of lies.  I'm so glad you are seeing that "window" again.  I learned here about the ups and downs, good days, bad days (windows and waves).  Now when I'm in a "wave" kind of day, I have more and more hope that window is going to open up again oregonlady

[[Th...]]

IMO, it's reckless to say some people can manage alcohol during withdrawal?  How?  It acts on GABA receptors just like Benzos do, so it's no different than continuing to take a Benzo after your CT or taper has ended.  I would avoid alcohol and any further Benzo use during withdrawal the same way you'd avoid RAT POISON at any other point in your life.  

Edited December 21, 2023 by [Th...]

[[ve...]]

Non-alcoholic beer does the trick for me.  I stopped drinking alcohol 7 months ago.

[[Co...]]

4 hours ago, [[T...] said:

IMO, it's reckless to say some people can manage alcohol during withdrawal?  How?  It acts on GABA receptors just like Benzos do, so it's no different than continuing to take a Benzo after your CT or taper has ended.  I would avoid alcohol and any further Benzo use during withdrawal the same way you'd avoid RAT POISON at any other point in your life.  

Hi @[Th...]

I would generally suggest staying away from alcohol during withdrawal and recovery. But it does not act on GABA receptors in precisely the same way as benzodiazepines. Some seem untroubled by consuming alcohol during their taper and/or recover. Ashton seemed to think there was no great problem if alcohol is consumed in moderation during withdrawal.

But there is another reason for not drinking alcohol: alcohol and benzodiazepines in combination can be very dangerous. For these reasons, I would generally advise against their simultaneous use. But some seem fine with it.

[[An...]]

Personally, I have a little different take when it comes to alcohol.

Professor Ashton said>>>

 

Quote

 

DIET, FLUIDS AND EXERCISE

There has been increasing interest in the question of diet in benzodiazepine withdrawal, particularly in North America. What food/drinks should be excluded? What supplements should be added? These are frequent questions. In my opinion there is no need to be over-obsessive about diet. Some people advise that caffeine and alcohol should be completely ruled out. However, the point about gradual dosage tapering at home is that people should get used to living a normal lifestyle without drugs. In my experience, coffee or tea in moderation (about two cups a day), or reasonable amounts of cocoa, chocolate or coca cola, are perfectly compatible with benzodiazepine withdrawal - except in the few individuals who are exquisitely sensitive to caffeine or those with very high anxiety levels. Clearly one should not take caffeine late in the evening or drink cups of tea/coffee (unless decaffeinated) in the middle of the night if insomniac, but to prohibit a cup of tea/coffee at breakfast is in general unduly restrictive. One is, after all, striving to be normal and sociable, not fussy.

Similarly with alcohol: a glass or two of wine is perfectly permissible (and even said by some to be advisable for health). Although it is important not to substitute increasing doses of alcohol for decreasing doses of benzodiazepines, there is no need to deny oneself small pleasures. Moderation is the key: there is no call to be puritanical.

 

This  👆 pretty much sums up my take when it comes to alcohol. It does hit those GAGA receptors as benzos but in small amounts, it should not impede benzo recovery or make benzo w/d worse in most ppl unless you are exquisitely sensitive. If you are not a drinker, do not start drinking for benzo w/d SX suppression. This will definitely make  things much worse. If OTOH you are a very casual infrequent drinker such as myself, I feel it is perfectly ok to enjoy a glass of wine or one drink or two (max) with a meal if you want.

Please note: I  not advocating that anyone start drinking alcohol. If you are a non-drinker, all the better. But if you do enjoy one or two drinks with a nice meal and you have never had any issues with alcohol abuse, I see absolutely nothing wrong here. 

If you are detoxing from benzos or have completed your taper and you have a little alcohol and feel that it impacts you negatively, listen to your body and do not do it again until you feel that your benzo recovery is complete. OTOH, if small amounts don't bother you and you enjoy, I say go for it. This is called using common sense. These things are not a one-shoe-fits-all.

 

 

[[Co...]]

27 minutes ago, [[A...] said:

Personally, I have a little different take when it comes to alcohol.

Potato/Potarto. I don't disagree with what you wrote there. Or with what Prof. Ashton wrote either. Acohol affects people differently. It took me a few years to understand that occasional, small amounts of alcohol (a drink or two, less than weekly), would tend to destabilise my recovery over time. Some other members have reported similarly. Though, the majority do seem OK with moderate use. But if in any doubt, I would suggest taking an extended break from alcohol to see if this helps. (I needed to be off for six months to feel better.)

[[An...]]

1 minute ago, [[C...] said:

Potato/Potarto. I don't disagree with what you wrote there. Or with what Prof. Ashton wrote either. Acohol affects people differently. It took me a few years to understand that occasional, small amounts of alcohol (a drink or two, less than weekly), would tend to destabilise my recovery over time. Some other members have reported similarly. Though, the majority do seem OK with moderate use. But if any doubt, I would suggest taking an extended break from alcohol to see if this helps. (I needed to be off for six months to feel better.)

👍