No Hope

[[Go...]]

I really need some good advice or a pep talk right now.  I see no point in continuing on like this, everyday filled with fear of everything.  I read the success stories, but I can’t imagine anyone going through this fear, depression, and negativity.  Very few weeks I write the same thing on here, and nothing gets better.  I AM truly, truly believing there is more wrong with me than simply W/D.  Why was I put on the benzos in the first place?  Fear!  And life without benzos is just fear.  10 months not a bit of difference.

[[Th...]]

Gonzo, you are not unique.  You don't have a "rare" form of withdrawal that no one else ever had.  I thought the same thing and so did most others on this forum at one point or another. Most on this forum went through fear, depression, anxiety and negativity.  I did.  In fact, being negative and only looking at the dark side of life is a withdrawal symptom.  There is nothing more wrong with you.  It's all withdrawal.  Most think the same thing and then get every medical test done only to show that there is nothing else wrong.  I did that.  I had every medical test my insurance and doctor would allow.  It got to the point that my doctor would no longer see me until I saw a psychiatrist that he recommended.  I did that and she diagnosed me with 3 or 4 mental illness conditions including General Anxiety Disorder and Depression.  That was all lies, as ALL of that went away over time and was directly a result of Benzo withdrawal. But if it will help ease your mind, go get whatever tests done that you think will help?

As I said in your other posts, most people don't get any type of noticeable relief until somewhere between month 18 and 24.  I was lucky and started to get some relief around month 9-10 after my CT.  I was completely healed by month 24.  No one knows how long your healing and recovery will take, but you will start to see some improvement at some point given more time.  If you already made it 10 months, why throw that out the door by considering reinstating Benzos, when Benzos put you in the place you are currently in right now?  Peace!  

Edited December 6, 2023 by [Th...]

[[Go...]]

Because I dont want to live like this anymore. 

[[Hu...]]

There could be underlying trauma? I was put on benzo's after a hospital visit when the same day I experienced a panic attack. One Oxazepam and I felt cured, little did I know I was just starting a cycle of taking pills.

You did CT right Gonzo2504? How does your day look like?

[[Go...]]

4 hours ago, [[H...] said:

There could be underlying trauma? I was put on benzo's after a hospital visit when the same day I experienced a panic attack. One Oxazepam and I felt cured, little did I know I was just starting a cycle of taking pills.

You did CT right Gonzo2504? How does your day look like?

Im not sure what you are asking?  What do you mean how my day looks like?

[[Bu...]]

Hey Gonzo,

I am so sorry you're dealing with this.  I was originally put on clonazepam for anxiety/panic/fear.  I think that while benzos can certainly make our original problems worse over time, it won't cure them just by getting off.  I was wondering if you have tried talk therapy or CBT to help deal with your fear?  I found both of those to be extremely helpful for dealing with the fear and anxiety that got me put on the benzo in the first place.  Those are the things that have allowed me to get off.  Or perhaps some other medication that is not a benzo?

Blessings

[[Hu...]]

8 hours ago, [[G...] said:

Im not sure what you are asking?  What do you mean how my day looks like?

You think you have a condition that is untreated. And I wonder if it could be some trauma

[[Go...]]

Yes I think I have an untreated issue that benzos was masking/taking care of.  My fear of the Earth floating in space is something I’ve heard NOBODY on here talking about, so I’m thinking it’s a mental illness not associated with benzos or W/D in any way.

[[An...]]

Gonzo, describe this fear you are having. Do you suffer with panic attacks? I have 1st hand experience with the fear from panic attacks and it is truly intolerable for long periods of time. It is perhaps the most agonizing psychological pain that you can endure.

The feeling of the earth floating in space seems more DP/DR to me. Did all this start when you were taken off the klonopin?

Did you have any of this going on prior to ever taking klonopin?

[[Go...]]

I cant remember if this was before or after starting the Klonopin. It feels like a severe panic attack is about to happen at every moment of the day.  The fear causes me to crunch up, move spastically, and the anticipatory anxiety is about everything.  Everything is scary. 

[[Th...]]

Gonzo, just because people don't talk specifically about an identical fear, doesn't mean your fear is unique!!!

No one ever talked about a fear of bringing their trash can down to the road to be picked up, so I could have used that and said see, no one else ever talked about that so I have a mental illness!  Flawed logic and simply not true.  The point I am making is that fear from Benzo withdrawal is typically unique to that person.  FEAR is FEAR regardless of whether it's a fear of the Earth or floating in space or being afraid to watch Hallmark Christmas movies.  It's ALL caused from Benzo  withdrawal and not a mental illness!

Edited December 8, 2023 by [Th...]

[[Go...]]

1 hour ago, [[T...] said:

Gonzo, just because people don't talk specifically about an identical fear, doesn't mean your fear is unique!!!

No one ever talked about a fear of bringing their trash can down to the road to be picked up, so I could have used that and said see, no one else ever talked about that so I have a mental illness!  Flawed logic and simply not true.  The point I am making is that fear from Benzo withdrawal is typically unique to that person.  FEAR is FEAR regardless of whether it's a fear of the Earth or floating in space or being afraid to watch Hallmark Christmas movies.  It's ALL caused from Benzo  withdrawal and not a mental illness!

See that is where I feel our opinions differ. Some have a fear of showering; they have a 10 minute period of fear each day.  Fear of the Earth floating in space is unlimited, and the fear is nonstop.  I called a psychiatrist this morning; I am not cut out to live without benzos.

[[Bu...]]

22 hours ago, [[G...] said:

Yes I think I have an untreated issue that benzos was masking/taking care of.  My fear of the Earth floating in space is something I’ve heard NOBODY on here talking about, so I’m thinking it’s a mental illness not associated with benzos or W/D in any way.

Gonzo,

I think that if these fears were happening before you ever took a benzo, then yes, you are right that something else is going on here.  Perhaps the psychiatrist you are going to see will recommend a type of therapy or a medication other than a benzo.  You can certainly ask about other options.

Blessings

[[Ed...]]

For decades, I have read and been dumbfounded by responses which insist that PRE-EXISTING disorders - phobias, paranoias, panics, etc. - are all just the results of benzo withdrawal, a benzo which was prescribed AFTER those disorders became unbearable. This is absurdly illogical, and not only is it bewildering, but potentially harmful, to the sufferer's state of mind.

@[Bu...]'s response gives the most rational, realistic observation and sound advice here:

On 06/12/2023 at 22:54, [[B...] said:

I think that while benzos can certainly make our original problems worse over time, it won't cure them just by getting off.  I was wondering if you have tried talk therapy or CBT to help deal with your fear?  I found both of those to be extremely helpful for dealing with the fear and anxiety that got me put on the benzo in the first place.  Those are the things that have allowed me to get off.  Or perhaps some other medication that is not a benzo?

I myself have pre-existing psycho-emotional ailments that are returning during my tapering. I am hopeful that the new ketamine therapy will help me get rid of a lifetime of crippling C-PTSD (which I had fully developed before benzos were invented!!!). I used alcohol (NOT a good solution) to cope, before xanax came along and gave me a comparatively less damaging, less endangering way of functioning in life without having to suffer emotional distress or else stay intoxicated. 

Ketamine with CBT therapy has helped many (not all) overcome pre-existing psycho-emotional disorders through neuroplasticity and potentially avoids the continuance of drug therapy. If not that, I'm going to try electromagnetic therapy. I don't want to continue to be a slave to xanax, which is not only insidiously destructive (alcohol being overtly destructive) and so hard to get prescribed these days, which is in itself another great stressor.

Edrek

Edited December 9, 2023 by [Ed...]

[[Bu...]]

Thanks, @[Ed...].  I really appreciate you adding your experience and treatment options to the conversation. 

[[Hu...]]

On 07/12/2023 at 22:14, [[G...] said:

and the anticipatory anxiety is about everything.  Everything is scary. 

Yes, that is something I recognize. But at the same time I know it's just hyperactivity in the brain that causes it, because when you take your dose it goes away.

I've never heard of people scared about earth floating in space. But I've seen the movie Melancholia (2011) and that was a pretty scary story. Also, quite interesting because the main character has a depression. 

Fear of death, which I think it is linked to in your case, is something you will have to deal with. I am not afraid of dying or the end of the world. In the first case I've written and recorded so much material for my family. They will remember me. And if the world ends, it doesn't matter anyway. 

Yes, we know these kind of videos and they are indeed pretty scary.

Is EMDR therapy something for you? 

Edited December 8, 2023 by [Hu...]

[[Go...]]

4 hours ago, [[H...] said:

Yes, that is something I recognize. But at the same time I know it's just hyperactivity in the brain that causes it, because when you take your dose it goes away.

I've never heard of people scared about earth floating in space. But I've seen the movie Melancholia (2011) and that was a pretty scary story. Also, quite interesting because the main character has a depression. 

Fear of death, which I think it is linked to in your case, is something you will have to deal with. I am not afraid of dying or the end of the world. In the first case I've written and recorded so much material for my family. They will remember me. And if the world ends, it doesn't matter anyway. 

Yes, we know these kind of videos and they are indeed pretty scary.

Is EMDR therapy something for you? 

Thank you but I need medical attention. Everyone mentions fears of objects or situations. My fear is 24/7, not when I am trying to do something.  From Day one I felt I was more severe than everyone due to my dosage and the time on such a high dose.  I cant live. 

[[An...]]

You sound like you are really suffering Gonzo. I wish I knew of something that might help you. Is Klonopin the only benzo you have ever been on?

[[An...]]

8 hours ago, [[E...] said:

For decades, I have read and been dumbfounded by responses which insist that PRE-EXISTING disorders - phobias, paranoias, panics, etc. - are all just the results of benzo withdrawal, a benzo which was prescribed AFTER those disorders became unbearable. This is patently illogical, and not only is it bewildering, but potentially harmful, to the sufferer's state of mind.

@[Bu...]'s response gives the most rational, realistic observation and sound advice here:

I myself have pre-existing psycho-emotional ailments that are returning during my tapering. I am hopeful that the new ketamine therapy will help me get rid of a lifetime of crippling C-PTSD (which I had fully developed before benzos were invented!!!). I used alcohol (NOT a good solution) to cope, before xanax came along and gave me a comparatively less damaging, endangering way of functioning in life without enduring emotional distress or staying intoxicated. 

Ketamine with CBT therapy has helped many (not all) overcome pre-existing psycho-emotional disorders through neuroplasticity and potentially avoids the continuance of drug therapy. If not that, I'm going to try electromagnetic therapy. I don't want to continue to be a slave to xanax, which is not only insidiously destructive (alcohol being overtly destructive) and so hard to get prescribed these days, which is in itself another great stressor.

Edrek

Yep, getting cut off one day is also one of my biggest fears @[Ed...]. Like yourself, I no longer wish to be a slave to these drugs. I hope I can cope w/o them one day. Honesty, if the brain never became tolerant (only addicted) to benzos with no loss in therapeutic effect from long-term use,, I'd probably choose to take them for life and accept the addiction component and other risks like possible dementia. 

However, I am sick and tolerant on the Valium so I have no choice but to try and come off and see if I can function and feel ok without these drugs.

[[Go...]]

28 minutes ago, [[A...] said:

You sound like you are really suffering Gonzo. I wish I knew of something that might help you. Is Klonopin the only benzo you have ever been on?

Xanax for a short time.

[[Ed...]]

@[Go...] I want to say that I'm also really feeling for you...even with you, Gonzo.  From what you say, it's clear that you're in a very fearful state, plagued with unusual fear that may baffle or disquiet others when you tell them, but there are thousands of strange phobias that are nonetheless very real to those of us who suffer them. Sometimes I think our subconscious may in fact morph all we really fear into a few symbolic phobias - maybe so we won't be overwhelmed by the great number of real threats to our peace of mind and heart.

First, let me confess one odd phobia of mine to you: I have a horror of all white walls in a house, even worse if it includes the furniture, cabinets and trim - but all-white happens to be very much the fashion these days!! I simply have to decline invitations to visit people whose houses are all white inside because that environment brings me intensely bad feelings of being in a hospital ward or a morgue, of death, of lifelessness, the color of long dried bones - a phobia that is "nuts" but is unbearable for me. I can't even watch modern movies with all white interiors! It's interesting that older movies and shows always had interiors with color (or shades of gray), so I watch a lot of old programs. I'm also disturbed to see that now 90% of cars in any parking lot are black, white, (silver) gray, or crimson - two lifeless opposites, one mixed, and one the color of fresh bloodshed. Symbolic?

My 24/7 background fears (which xanax helped me keep suppressed) are the ever-increasing dire trends and events in the modern world. In many ways, I feel that I've lived too long on this earth - beyond my proper time - lived into a mushrooming dystopia that I never imagined the future could be. Like a traveller from the past caught in a frightening future and unable to go back.

But I haven't been classified as "completely insane" (yet) - just suffering from C-PTSD, which is a stew of personality disorders. But it seems the cruelty, dysfunction, and loss experienced in my home life has now spread throughout all our civilization - but I'm already well-acquainted with all that. Maybe that's why I'm still anxious and depressed, but not "crazy" (which, darn it, would probably be a relief - "ignorance is bliss").

Gonzo, they say as long as you question your sanity, you're not insane - and a very wise philosopher said “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” Which I dare say we have.

I could never say what the best solution for your fear would be, Gonzo. As you can see, I haven't done so well for myself. But just a thought: maybe if you study some popular physics about gravity and remind yourself that Earth is not just floating in space, but it is locked into a gravitational field (whether Newtonian or Einsteinian) around the Sun; i.e., the Earth is not going to drift off into space any time soon - it would take quite a huge impact from another massive planet to even alter our orbit (this actually happened a zillion years ago and caused the formation of the Moon, which is also locked by gravity in orbit around the Earth). So we're not really just floating in space. Maybe think of the Sun's and Earth's gravity as a solid, tangible thing that we simply can't see - we can't see air, sound waves, radio waves, or the force that attracts two magnets together - but they're all most definitely there. Tell me what you think. Is your unique fear perhaps a symbolic manifestation of some greater, more tangible fear?

On 08/12/2023 at 21:35, [[A...] said:

Yep, getting cut off one day is also one of my biggest fears @[Ed...]. Like yourself, I no longer wish to be a slave to these drugs. I hope I can cope w/o them one day. Honesty, if the brain never became tolerant (only addicted) to benzos with no loss in therapeutic effect from long-term use, I'd probably choose to take them for life and accept the addiction component and other risks like possible dementia. However, I am sick and tolerant on the Valium so I have no choice but to try and come off and see if I can function and feel ok without these drugs.

@[An...] AMEN, BROTHER!!! We're definitely on the same page! I agree and/or empathize with everything you write here! We're fellow travellers on this bumpy ride!

Edrek

Edited December 16, 2023 by [Ed...]

[[An...]]

Thank you for sharing this @[Ed...]. I personally have a cardiophobia. This is what led me down the long-term benzo path. I think a lotta ppl have these fears and phobias that are completely  irrational and they can really disrupt you from living a normal life. I hope Gonzo can eventually find some peace in his life whether on drugs or off them. We all just have a limited amount of time on this planet and no one certainly wants to live the majority of it suffering and in pain, although drug-free. For most benzobuddies, the drugs have made us extremely sick and we are trying to get better by getting off the drugs and coping naturally with any underlying issues after w/d is complete.

[[Ed...]]

@[An...] Man, cardiophobia can be a SCARY ride, as it involves a feedback loop - a twinge in the chest provokes a panic response, which provokes muscular tension around the heart, which causes more panic, which causes more muscular tension around the heart, etc., etc. Angina pectoris, I think it's called. Most phobias don't involve this feedback loop and are relieved mostly by avoidance behavior, but you can't avoid your own chest pain when you're panicking about it. Were you ever offered a beta-blocker or nitro-glycerin sublingual, to see if that would work as well as a benzo? I found that a beta-blocker (atenolol) works pretty well for me when I have bouts of cardiophobia (which is one of my many assorted phobias).

I go in for my major shakedown session with a new therapist tomorrow. I just filled out a questionnaire to give the therapist tomorrow, and in doing so, I realize I'm worse off than I thought I was! Since this therapist can do ketamine and magnetic therapy along with CBT, I'll let the forum know how it goes whenever (if) I get that far.

Edrek

[[Fa...]]

On 08/12/2023 at 10:32, [[G...] said:

See that is where I feel our opinions differ. Some have a fear of showering; they have a 10 minute period of fear each day.  Fear of the Earth floating in space is unlimited, and the fear is nonstop.  I called a psychiatrist this morning; I am not cut out to live without benzos.

@[Go...]  I have not been able to contribute on here for a good while.  I will try to add my two cents regarding this.  I write this with much compassion.

Your comment about people fearing showering and it lasts for 10 minutes may not be accurate and is a blanket statement.  But, I understand why your brain is interpreting it that way.  I truly do.  We take words written and then we form an assumption which is not accurate because we are not there…maybe the writer has chosen to share it their way…to the best of their ability in that moment.  How do we know what happens after that shower?  Does the terror then transfer to the next thing?  Something tells me it would…it doesn’t just turn off.  Comparisons are sure to leave us feeling more isolated and afraid.

Here goes…I have been living in terror of life for over two years.  When I say life, I mean every thought, memory, every object, space, feeling, nature, animals, people, and the reality we are surrounded by which would be a list that would never end.  That would include the earth, stars, moon, etc.  I am not focussed on the earth, but I do focus on the mechanics of the universe…theories that I feel are flawed from a perspective that most would not entertain.  I cannot put my thoughts and fears into words because there are no words in any language…so, it is difficult.  I live my life 95% of the time in what I feel is a parallel universe my thoughts become so ungrounded.  It is paralyzing.  It’s a reality that feels like only I am existing in.  The terror attached to all of this leaves me in freeze mode…not fight or flight.  Scared stiff…unable to move often or talk.

I am still in here, and I’m trying my best to pull from ‘me’ to write this.

When healthy, I am a deep thinker.  Always been very inquisitive and loved the unknown.  My interest was so much in all the more abstract aspects of life and existence.  I was just born this way.  It excited me, and loved it when someone was interested in discussing with me.

Fast forward to here and now.  I happen to agree with @[Th...].  This drug has taken not just this interest and distorted, contorted and turned it upside down into a horror flick, but it has done it with existence itself in its mundane form.  It has taken love and has attached terror to it.  I am a very loving and demonstrative person…a very big part of me.  It has been ‘used against me’ due to the injury due to this drug.  It has taken all the ‘normal’ and has warped it into a threat.  It has hijacked my innocence, my sense of self, my sense of soul and yanked away all healthy perspectives.  It their place, only terror.  Every waking minute of my day.

These distortions began before tapering.  But, creeped in slowly as I made changes in my life that were due to my brain perceiving life as a threat.  Slow and insidious.  It’s hard to remember exactly when it began, but it was over years.

Here is the thing…there is no rhyme or reason as to why the brain chooses what it does to stick to.  Sometimes it can be a previous ‘weakness’…sometimes, it can be something that once brought us joy.  Trying to figure it out will be the definition of insanity because you will find it futile over and over.  My opinion…this is the drug.  It is the drug if it started while in it, it is the drug if tapering, it is the drug after cessation.  Period.

You cannot remember when this fear began…if this was a ‘pre-existing condition’, with this kind of fear you are expressing, you would remember.  It’s the injury.  And, if you are someone who experiences severe mental symptoms during WD, it can take someone who has never given anything deep thought and convert them into one…dissecting things one would never have entertained before.

No one wants to live like this…in this altered state.  It’s horrifying.  I’ve been it it for a long time, and I’ve still a ways to go.  It's the friggin’ drug injury.  It’s not who you are.  The brain needs to heal.  It is not there yet…but, it will get there.

I am not an advocate for benzo use.  It’s what placed me here.  It will not cure anyone.  There is nothing to cure…only healing that needs to continue.  I am firm on this, for me.

If after you feel more evidence of recovery as you move forward, reassess your fear of the earth floating in space.  See if your perspective has shifted…even a little.  If you see even small changes, you will have your proof that it is the drug injury.  Any post trauma from moving through this can only be done from a more stable place.  While so acute,  therapy is like raking leaves in the wind.  We need to be in a more stable space to utilize any kind of therapy.  But, talking it out…getting it out of your head is important.  Or writing it.  I am not in a place of being able to talk…and, writing is not so good for me right now either.  If you can’t, I relate.  Many have given excellent replies…caring replies.

Your terror is not unique.  It is unique to you in what it has attached to.  But, you are not alone in it.  There are many who suffer this badly.  We just don’t all write about it.  We are out here.  For me, I am terrified to discuss my terror…which is why I have not for a good while.  I hope you continue to move forward and allow healing to build upon itself.  Regardless of your choice, there are many who care and are supporting you.

Warmly,

F

[[PE...]]

On 07/12/2023 at 20:30, [[G...] said:

Yes I think I have an untreated issue that benzos was masking/taking care of.  My fear of the Earth floating in space is something I’ve heard NOBODY on here talking about, so I’m thinking it’s a mental illness not associated with benzos or W/D in any way.

That's a deep thought and very interesting. And true, we do floating in space. But why do you fear it?