Strange Phenomenon after Lorazepam to Clonazepam to Lorazepam switch! PLEASE HELP! ANY HYPOTHESIS WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL!

[[Ch...]]

 

After going back to lorazepam 1.25mg twice a day for 14 days now after experimenting with clonazepam 1.25mg to 2.5mg daily for ONLY 11 days as mentioned in the first post, I have been going through a very strange episode. 

Instead of experiencing the usual anxiolytic effects of lorazepam 1.25mg like I have in the past 2.5 years I am only being sedated and falling asleep with very little anxiolytic effects! I even tried 1.5mg, 1.75mg up to 2.5mg and it just strengthens the sedation without much anxiolytic effects. It is very strange  because it is acting ALMOST EXACTLY the same way that the clonazepam had acted on me for the 11 days that I used!!! 

I have no explanation for this phenomenon because it was EXACTLY THIS DIFFERENCE between lorazepam and clonazepam that I experienced after using clonazepam for 10 days, prior going back to lorazepam. 

At 1.25mg lorazepam had a strong anxiolytic effect but very little sedative effect. This has been very consistently the case for the past 2.5 years of using lorazepam 1.25 to 1.5mg. 

VERSUS 

Taking 1mg to 2mg of clonazepam I had strong sedation but also somewhat moderate anxiolytic effects. At 1mg clonazepam the anxiolytic effect was very low and sedation was moderate and going up to 2mg clonazepam the anxiolytic component increased to moderate but severe sedation. 

Now for the past 14 days, lorazepam 1.25mg is almost acting exactly the same way as the clonazepam! 

How could this be? What are some possible explanations? PLEASE HELP! ANY HYPOTHESIS WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL! 

 

Any explanations would be greatly appreciated because I really have high hopes in using lorazepam 1.25mg twice a day before using the Ashton manual. 

Thank You Dearly and Blessings to All Going Through Very Difficult Times! Never Give Up Hope! We Are All (10’s of millions people worldwide) in This Battle and There is Unimaginably Enormous Power In Going Through a Struggle Together!!! Bezos’s Have No Chance!!! =) 

 

[[Th...]]

I don't really have a good explanation other than you might be reaching tolerance no matter how large the dose.  I took Benzos for sleep and near the end of taking them, I was up to 3-4mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin) along with 30mg of Temazepam only to get an hour or 2 of sleep. Benzos are for short-term (2-4 weeks maximum) use.  IMO I'd try to figure out a way to safely taper off of them.  Good luck!

[[Ch...]]

 

Thank you very much for your quick response, I appreciate it very much.

The sedative effect stayed about the same or very slightly increased. However, the worst thing and a bit shocking thing was that the anxiolotic effect was never there! If only 25% of the anxiolotic effect of lorazepam (as I experienced with 100% consistency in the last 3.5 years) had been there it would EXACTLY be no different than taking clonazepam 1.25mg! A more important question is, "what happened to the anxiolotic component of lorazepam??" After all, 11 Days of using clonazepam is nothing to 3.5 years of using lorazepam daily with 100% consistent results.

My intuition says there is an easy explanation for this phenomenon. We can rule out withdrawal and tolerance for both lorazepam and Clonazepam since I used lorazepam daily for 3.5 years and actually decreased the dosage from 2mg to 1.25mg daily with no problems at all and stayed at 1.25mg for 2.5 years!

Very similar with clonazepam, I used it from 2013 to 2020 2 or 3 times a week between 1 to 1.5mh as needed and it had 100% consistency in day 1 as it did on last day!

Update: After the 14 days of using lorazepam 1.25mg twice daily, I experimented with going back to 1.25mg clonazepam once daily. That even had a much better effect than 1.25mg lorazepam twice daily.

I also tried 1.25mg clonazepam with 1.25mg lorazepam together. There was no difference!

I even tried 1.25mg clonazepam

In the afternoon and 1.25mg lorazepam at night. The Clonazepam acted the same way as before, more anxiolotic and less sedative and the lorazepam also slightly became more anxiolotic and less sedative.

The only possible explanation is that the 11 days of use of clonazepam with stopping lorazepam cold turkey confused the gaba receptors. And all needs to be done is to unconfuse the gaba recpeptors 

I can't see any withdrawal or tolerance playing any factor at all. It must be a different factor.

Thank you again for your quick reply, I appreciate it very much! Let me know what are your thoughts? 

Blessings!

 

[[ou...]]

20 hours ago, [[C...] said:

I can't see any withdrawal or tolerance playing any factor at all.

Wishful thinking

[[Th...]]

Benzos worked great for me at first, but slowly stopped working over about a 12 week period.  Increasing my dose when I couldn't sleep caused me to need to go to a higher dose to get the same effect (I rapidly reached tolerance at the lower doses).  I did not understand how Benzos worked or what tolerance or withdrawal were until I found BenzoBuddies.  I relied on what my PCP prescribed and his advice.  He didn't understand or believe in Benzo withdrawal along with most doctors in the US.

All Benzos down-regulate GABA receptors.  Lorazepam doesn't work on GABA differently than Clonazepam, but works faster (shorter half life), so I highly doubt it could "confuse" your GABA receptors?  Clonazepam has a longer half life so it provides a longer period of time for symptom relief and anxiolytic benefits.

You didn't stop CT by switching from one Benzo to another.  That's technically a crossover.  I did that a few times going from Xanax (Alprazolam) to Klonopin (Clonazepam) to Temazepam to Valium (Diazepam). You can drive yourself crazy "trying to connect the dots."  Eventually all drugs stop working given enough time.  

Good luck!

 

[[mi...]]

"You can drive yourself crazy "trying to connect the dots." This quote from @[Th...] is spot on. @[Ch...] I know you are an analytical person but you are not going to figure out all the details of how this works. You're just not. Benzos are a downward spiral. If they all did what we wanted to have them do and stayed predictable, none of us would be on here. You can't outthink brain chemistry gone awry. Once hell breaks loose, it's very difficult to tame this beast without getting off the drugs safely. You can try if you want to figure this out but you are going to be nailing jello to the wall wondering why it won't stick. Countless other super smart people have come before you trying to figure out all the angles, including myself, only to have a theory that is then turned on it's head when the benzos strike in a new and unfamiliar way with new symptoms. The brain is not designed to be altered like this so once the cat is out of the bag and pandoras box is open, all bets are off. Not saying there aren't safe ways to navigate off this stuff, but trying to micro disect each action is an act of futility because things change as the brain adapts and receptors are altered. Sorry Im not more positive but you are posting on several forums trying to find answesr that don't exist. Ride it out, come up wiht a plan and move forward however you decide but don't waste your time trying to answer questions you won't find answers for....the whys and hows of every symptom and feeling.

[[Th...]]

Well said MikeyJoed!  Benzos alter brain chemistry, and IMO, should be reason enough to try a safe, slow taper rather than looking for ways to stay on Benzos.

[[mi...]]

Yep. I don’t feel great when I make reductions but I feel horrible staying on the drug, so I just realize this is a timing thing, I balance and tolerability with reducing the drug and it’s worth it to me to suffer a little bit if I have to to keep moving forward because staying put is not getting me any better, and in fact, is making me worse.