Still suffering

[[no...]]

I have been on benzos for 30 years. I was on 2mg klonopin, I tapered from 2mg down to 1mg in about 2 months. I then slowed it down and cut 1/8 mg to get down to taking 7/8 of a mg. The suffering has been so bad that I have been holding there for possibly 3 months. I took an extra 1/2 mg one day and I did not even feel any difference.

I am on edge alot, get easily agitated, high anxiety, continuing depression, lack of motivation, no social life feel isolated, difficulty at work, terrible tinnitus, trouble falling asleep, aches and pain in my feet and legs, sometimes feels like pressure in my head and often times tell myself that I feel awful....like this doesn't even feel like all psychological but feels more like something physically is wrong with me.

Someone on here posted a success story stating that he hates to tell people this but most of this is just a return of anxiety rather than withdrawal symptoms that people believe never goes away.

I am confused, is this protracted withdrawal syndrome or just a return of anxiety? I am not even all the way off the klonopin, scared to reduce again. One doctor online said that one of the signs of protracted withdrawal syndrome is reinstating on the medication with no relief. Which made me think of the day I took some extra with no relief. 

[[je...]]

Gosh you have tapered very fast. I think your body is still recovering. One rescue dose is not considered updosing. Usually for updosing to be effective you need to take it for a while before you'll feel any relief. I certainly don't think you need to stress about protracted withdrawal. 

[[ma...]]

7 hours ago, [[n...] said:

Llevo 30 años tomando benzos. Estaba tomando 2 mg de klonopin, bajé gradualmente de 2 mg a 1 mg en aproximadamente 2 meses. Luego lo reduje y reduje 1/8 mg para llegar a tomar 7/8 de mg. El sufrimiento ha sido tan intenso que he estado allí posiblemente durante 3 meses. Un día tomé 1/2 mg adicional y ni siquiera sentí ninguna diferencia.

Estoy muy nervioso, me agito con facilidad, mucha ansiedad, depresión continua, falta de motivación, no tengo vida social, me siento aislado, dificultad en el trabajo, tinnitus terrible, dificultad para conciliar el sueño, dolores y molestias en los pies y las piernas, a veces siento presión. en mi cabeza y muchas veces me digo a mí mismo que me siento fatal... como si esto ni siquiera lo pareciera algo psicológico, sino más bien como si algo físicamente estuviera mal en mí.

Alguien aquí publicó una historia de éxito afirmando que odia decirle esto a la gente, pero la mayor parte es solo un regreso de la ansiedad en lugar de síntomas de abstinencia que la gente cree que nunca desaparece.

Estoy confundido, ¿se trata de un síndrome de abstinencia prolongado o simplemente de un regreso de la ansiedad? Ni siquiera estoy completamente fuera del klonopin, tengo miedo de reducirlo nuevamente. Un médico dijo en línea que uno de los signos del síndrome de abstinencia prolongada es restablecer el medicamento sin alivio. Lo que me hizo pensar en el día que tomé un poco más sin alivio. 

  d

[[ma...]]

You decreased too quickly.Read the Asthon manual There are safe ways to reduce.I would go back to an effective dose and From there start reducing very slowly.

[[ou...]]

On 25/11/2023 at 05:59, [[n...] said:

Someone on here posted a success story stating that he hates to tell people this but most of this is just a return of anxiety rather than withdrawal symptoms that people believe never goes away.

I am confused, is this protracted withdrawal syndrome or just a return of anxiety?

This is just wrong. There can be no return of anxiety because anxiety never leaves, it's part of the human condition. Even if you artificially get rid of it for a while, this would be an unnatural state which is why we become tolerant to the effects of drugs that alter normal brain function. What you seem to have is withdrawal symptoms from tapering too fast. I don't think going back up would help after holding for 3 months. When that happened to me the only way I was able to stabilize was by switching to Diazepam per the Ashton Manual. Somehow its long half life helps but I don't how exactly.

Edited November 26, 2023 by [ou...]

[[Th...]]

Hmmmm...anxiety left for me.  I never had anxiety prior to Benzos and after I healed, I've never had it again, except for the "normal" amount of anxiety people face in daily life; however, that anxiety was/is like a gust of wind compared to the category 5 anxiety I had during my withdrawal!

[[no...]]

Friends, I am still holding at 3 months or longer and suffering tremendously. I am wondering, should I wait until the suffering lessens before reducing again? Or am I just continuing the suffering by staying on the medication? I am afraid to reduce again at this point but am wondering if maybe I should reduce again at some point anyway? Any help appreciated 

[[An...]]

OP said>>>

Quote

I am confused, is this protracted withdrawal syndrome or just a return of anxiety? I am not even all the way off the klonopin, scared to reduce again. One doctor online said that one of the signs of protracted withdrawal syndrome is reinstating on the medication with no relief. Which made me think of the day I took some extra with no relief. 

I think it can be both once you are off these drugs if you started taking the drugs to manage an anxiety disorder. I had horrible anxiety and panic prior to going on the drugs. I am sure those underlying conditions were just being masked by the drug. Once tolerance starts, those SXs from the underlying condition usually return (much worse than baseline sadly) along with a whole host of other bizarre SXs you did not have prior to benzos. It is a very cruel painful irony.

I don't think you can call yourself protracted until you are completely off the drug and a year or more has elapsed with very little to no improvement in SXs.

There is also a subset of long-term benzo users (not sure how large) who find that once they are off the drugs and recover from the w/d, they discover to their delight that their anxiety and panic conditions are no longer there. Ideally, this is what we all hope for after we get off this stuff.

[[Go...]]

On 27/11/2023 at 08:33, [[T...] said:

Hmmmm...anxiety left for me.  I never had anxiety prior to Benzos and after I healed, I've never had it again, except for the "normal" amount of anxiety people face in daily life; however, that anxiety was/is like a gust of wind compared to the category 5 anxiety I had during my withdrawal!

So how am I suppose to live a life without benzos if all I ever had was anxiety?? Life without the benzos is terrible, but I can’t get them prescribed any more??

[[An...]]

47 minutes ago, [[G...] said:

So how am I suppose to live a life without benzos if all I ever had was anxiety?? Life without the benzos is terrible, but I can’t get them prescribed any more??

Gonzo, are you saying you would still like to be on benzos if you could get them Rx'd to you?

I thought you had become tolerant and wanted to come off them.

Were you forced off bc your doctor refused to Rx them to you any more?

Why won't other prescribers Rx them to you?

 

[[Go...]]

Because I was up to 7 mgs a day and I doubt anyone would prescribe that much.  But yes, life on the pills was better than these past 10 months where everything is fear.

[[An...]]

No, they may not Rx you 7 mgs but they may Rx you a lesser amount. If you need 7 mgs ok K for anxiety management, you are clearly tolerant and the drug has made you sick.

If you really wanted to go back on a lesser amount, I am sure you could find some doctor to oblige.

Have you even tried if you really think you'd be better off on the drugs?

I will admit I got some good mileage out of Klonopin when I was on it but once I became tolerant after approx. 13 years of use, I felt like I was dying every min of every second. I wished for my old anxiety and panic and fear back instead of the anxiety/panic/fear caused by the Klonopin tolerance.

I find it hard to believe @[Go...] you were feeling good on 7 mgs of Klonopin per day. Is that what you are saying to me? I bet when you 1st began taking Klonopin, they did not start you out on 7 mgs per day did they?

[[Th...]]

All Benzos seem great as long as they work, but when they stop working, and eventually they do, then you wish you never started taking them in the first place.  It's never easy for 99% of the people coming off of Benzos.  Yes, your last 10 months were terrible, but that's the way healing and recovery play out.  You have to go through the healing and recovery process in order to cross the finish line.  There are no shortcuts or ways over, under or around withdrawal.  It is what it is and it ends when it ends, BUT it does end one day as long as you stay OFF of Benzos and let your brain and body heal.  Peace!

Edited December 6, 2023 by [Th...]

[[Go...]]

23 hours ago, [[A...] said:

No, they may not Rx you 7 mgs but they may Rx you a lesser amount. If you need 7 mgs ok K for anxiety management, you are clearly tolerant and the drug has made you sick.

If you really wanted to go back on a lesser amount, I am sure you could find some doctor to oblige.

Have you even tried if you really think you'd be better off on the drugs?

I will admit I got some good mileage out of Klonopin when I was on it but once I became tolerant after approx. 13 years of use, I felt like I was dying every min of every second. I wished for my old anxiety and panic and fear back instead of the anxiety/panic/fear caused by the Klonopin tolerance.

I find it hard to believe @[Go...] you were feeling good on 7 mgs of Klonopin per day. Is that what you are saying to me? I bet when you 1st began taking Klonopin, they did not start you out on 7 mgs per day did they?

@[An...] thank you for this.  Yes, I felt way better on 7 mgs than I do with this constant fear.  10+ months of this; everyone I read has seen improvement of some sort by then.  My life is a bigger mess than ever before.

[[Go...]]

9 hours ago, [[T...] said:

All Benzos seem great as long as they work, but when they stop working, and eventually they do, then you wish you never started taking them in the first place.  It's never easy for 99% of the people coming off of Benzos.  Yes, your last 10 months were terrible, but that's the way healing and recovery play out.  You have to go through the healing and recovery process in order to cross the finish line.  There are no shortcuts or ways over, under or around withdrawal.  It is what it is and it ends when it ends, BUT it does end one day as long as you stay OFF of Benzos and let your brain and body heal.  Peace!

@[Th...] thank you for this, but all I’ve gotten in 10 months are promises tho gs will get better.  They aren’t.  The fear, which seldom people mention as often as I do, crushes you.  I don’t want to do this anymore, I want some relief from the fear.

[[Ma...]]

Hi! This is my first post here though I have been reading people here for quite a long time. I think everybody has had different reactions to different psychoactive drugs, but, there is one thing which is of key importance in my opinion, and it is the reason why you were prescribed benzos. If the reason is panic attacks, which are nothing but fear, terrible fear in a pure state (sorry about my English), then, everything gets very difficult. 
I am tapering 15 mg clorazepate (tranxilium) very slowly and doing quite well. But I also take Paroxetine, which has really given me a new life free from panic attacks and all kinds of symptoms related to anxiety, which I have suffered from a very very young age (am 60 now). This drug I know I need and no tolerance has ever hit me, as with other AD I have taken before. Benzos are another story, I was prescribed tranxilium because of problems at work and in my marriage, to make me feel better. 5 mgs. Became 10 mgs and soon 15 mgs and later 20mgs, everybody here knows why. I don’t need benzos, I had never needed them for my ‘illness’, which is severe anxiety since I was a child. When I read you, Gonzo, I wonder if it is panic what you are feeling and, if it is so, and you were given benzos for this reason, then I can’t but understand your claiming to get back to the drugs, which doesn’t mean that I advise you to. 
My advise is to find a good psychiatrist to help you taper off benzos and maybe give you a good AD to make you free from this awful fear. I know some people will think I shouldn’t be suggesting people to try an AD, but I can’t but help it to tell my experience, they are very different drugs, benzos and ADs. I wish I had never taken the latter, and, yes, my psychiatrist also thinks, even though she supports me in my slow tapering, there is not so big a fuss about stopping them. Clorazepate is, I think, a bit less ‘strong’ than valium and has a long life, but no way you taper it off in 2 or 3 months. I am taking my time, started tapering in June, 15 mgs. and have only tapered 3 mgs, now taking still 12 mgs, after 6 months. 

 

[[Pa...]]

Hello @[Ma...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

It sounds like you’re working a smart taper plan, I’m glad you’re taking it slow and doing as well as can be expected.

I too believe it’s important to know why one has been prescribed these medications because the original problem will still be there once the benzodiazepine nightmare is over.  I’ve seen some members benefit from taking antidepressants and would never suggest otherwise if the person and their doctor agree its a good idea.  I do know that some members have a difficult time taking other medications while going through this process because our central nervous system is so sensitized so its important to start slow.

We’re glad you’re here, thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Pamster

[[Th...]]

@[Go...] You said:   "thank you for this, but all I’ve gotten in 10 months are promises tho gs will get better.  They aren’t.  The fear, which seldom people mention as often as I do, crushes you.  I don’t want to do this anymore, I want some relief from the fear."

Of course you want relief from fear and for your symptoms to end.  Everyone does.  Everyone doesn't want to "do this anymore," but unfortunately there isn't any other way to cross the finish line.  You have to stay in the healing and recovery race.  Your life will be a bigger mess than it was being on 7mgs of Benzos.  Being on Benzos is like putting a piece of black tape over the "check engine" light on your car.  Sure, you no longer see the light, but the problem is NOT fixed.  Benzos cannot treat, fix or cure any underlying condition.  ALL they can do is MASK symptoms.  They are not like antibiotics that actually treat and cure an infection.  All they do is down-regulate GABA receptors by damaging or destroying them.  Those damaged and destroyed GABA receptors are what cause all of the symptoms including the FEAR that you are experiencing.  Going back on them is only going to cause more damage and prolong your healing. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by [Th...]

[[Ma...]]

Thanks a lot, @[Pa...], but it’s me who is very greatful to benzobuddies for all the information about tapering off benzos. Thanks to you, I managed to drop 5 mg of Clorazepate (it’s called Tranzene in USA, in Spain Tranxilium) from the 20 mg was on. I did it linear because I didn’t understand the proper way which I am doing now. It was a bit fast compared to now but I was younger, 7 years ago that was. I remember having hot flashes, some insomnia, GI issues and some craving. Now, as I just said in my previous post, I am going really slow and holding whenever irritability, light sleep, head lightedness, sudden sadness, intrusive thoughts or some anxiety seems to stay and doesn’t get better. Regarding the use of Paroxetine which is my golden medication which I will never stop taking because it’s great for severe anxiety, I was lucky I was already on it before being prescribed Tranzene, so I know for sure I can do without the benzos and I only have to worry about withdrawal. I agree with you that if you are in the process of benzo withdrawal you don’t know if an AD will help or not. Patience is the key word when tapering and holding whenever you feel you are not improving in anything. Thank you again and see you around.

 

 

[[Si...]]

@marianita what do anxiety disorders actually feel like?

I had a severe anxiety disorder but it was social anxiety and I didn't take pills for it, except sometimes beta blockers.  it didn't feel anything like withdrawal anxiety.  I woke up fine, relaxed, read went online, went shopping without a care in the world.  if I had work (teaching) to do I'd get a little nervous, but once the teaching was finished I'd feel great.

are there anxiety disorders that feel like withdrawal? where you wake up with horrible feelings in the body for no reason? where you can't function and live torture every second? 

was your anxiety disorder just there for no reason? or was it worry?

[[An...]]

16 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Hi! This is my first post here though I have been reading people here for quite a long time. I think everybody has had different reactions to different psychoactive drugs, but, there is one thing which is of key importance in my opinion, and it is the reason why you were prescribed benzos. If the reason is panic attacks, which are nothing but fear, terrible fear in a pure state (sorry about my English), then, everything gets very difficult. 
I am tapering 15 mg clorazepate (tranxilium) very slowly and doing quite well. But I also take Paroxetine, which has really given me a new life free from panic attacks and all kinds of symptoms related to anxiety, which I have suffered from a very very young age (am 60 now). This drug I know I need and no tolerance has ever hit me, as with other AD I have taken before. Benzos are another story, I was prescribed tranxilium because of problems at work and in my marriage, to make me feel better. 5 mgs. Became 10 mgs and soon 15 mgs and later 20mgs, everybody here knows why. I don’t need benzos, I had never needed them for my ‘illness’, which is severe anxiety since I was a child. When I read you, Gonzo, I wonder if it is panic what you are feeling and, if it is so, and you were given benzos for this reason, then I can’t but understand your claiming to get back to the drugs, which doesn’t mean that I advise you to. 
My advise is to find a good psychiatrist to help you taper off benzos and maybe give you a good AD to make you free from this awful fear. I know some people will think I shouldn’t be suggesting people to try an AD, but I can’t but help it to tell my experience, they are very different drugs, benzos and ADs. I wish I had never taken the latter, and, yes, my psychiatrist also thinks, even though she supports me in my slow tapering, there is not so big a fuss about stopping them. Clorazepate is, I think, a bit less ‘strong’ than valium and has a long life, but no way you taper it off in 2 or 3 months. I am taking my time, started tapering in June, 15 mgs. and have only tapered 3 mgs, now taking still 12 mgs, after 6 months. 

Well said @[Ma...] and @[Pa...]. Yes, it is always better not to take any Rx drug if you can manage your medical condition without them. Some ppl can and others can not. Panic disorder is probably the most intense of all the anxiety disorders. Left untreated, it can lead to suicide. The attacks paralyze you with overwhelming fear and impending doom. I have panic disorder.

I really feel for @[Go...].I know he would rather not have to go back on Klonopin. I can also feel the pain and desperation in his posts. No doctor is going to continually Rx you 7 mgs of K per day. He has clearly become tolerant on the drug. If he was stable on let's say .5 mgs (what I took for 13 years), then a case could perhaps be made for why he should go back on the drug. Even ppl who are doing well on benzos who have taken them long-term and don't want to come off them wish they were not dependent on these drugs. Miss one dose or run out of your pills and you can become violently sick.

I too think if you are off benzos and suffering intolerably, SSRIs are a far better long-term solution (provided you can find one that works that you can tolerate). Professor Ashton wrote about this in her Ashton manual.

The problem with @[Go...] I think is that he has been on several SSRIs or is on one now (can't remember). 

I would also pour my heart and soul into the lifestyle things like a super healthy diet and daily exercise along with some mind/body relaxation things like TM.

[[Ka...]]

18 hours ago, [[M...] said:

Hi! This is my first post here though I have been reading people here for quite a long time. I think everybody has had different reactions to different psychoactive drugs, but, there is one thing which is of key importance in my opinion, and it is the reason why you were prescribed benzos. If the reason is panic attacks, which are nothing but fear, terrible fear in a pure state (sorry about my English), then, everything gets very difficult. 
I am tapering 15 mg clorazepate (tranxilium) very slowly and doing quite well. But I also take Paroxetine, which has really given me a new life free from panic attacks and all kinds of symptoms related to anxiety, which I have suffered from a very very young age (am 60 now). This drug I know I need and no tolerance has ever hit me, as with other AD I have taken before. Benzos are another story, I was prescribed tranxilium because of problems at work and in my marriage, to make me feel better. 5 mgs. Became 10 mgs and soon 15 mgs and later 20mgs, everybody here knows why. I don’t need benzos, I had never needed them for my ‘illness’, which is severe anxiety since I was a child. When I read you, Gonzo, I wonder if it is panic what you are feeling and, if it is so, and you were given benzos for this reason, then I can’t but understand your claiming to get back to the drugs, which doesn’t mean that I advise you to. 
My advise is to find a good psychiatrist to help you taper off benzos and maybe give you a good AD to make you free from this awful fear. I know some people will think I shouldn’t be suggesting people to try an AD, but I can’t but help it to tell my experience, they are very different drugs, benzos and ADs. I wish I had never taken the latter, and, yes, my psychiatrist also thinks, even though she supports me in my slow tapering, there is not so big a fuss about stopping them. Clorazepate is, I think, a bit less ‘strong’ than valium and has a long life, but no way you taper it off in 2 or 3 months. I am taking my time, started tapering in June, 15 mgs. and have only tapered 3 mgs, now taking still 12 mgs, after 6 months. 

Hi Marianita, What is the AD you refer to here?  @[Ma...] thx

[[Go...]]

3 hours ago, [[A...] said:

Well said @[Ma...] and @[Pa...]. Yes, it is always better not to take any Rx drug if you can manage your medical condition without them. Some ppl can and others can not. Panic disorder is probably the most intense of all the anxiety disorders. Left untreated, it can lead to suicide. The attacks paralyze you with overwhelming fear and impending doom. I have panic disorder.

I really feel for @[Go...].I know he would rather not have to go back on Klonopin. I can also feel the pain and desperation in his posts. No doctor is going to continually Rx you 7 mgs of K per day. He has clearly become tolerant on the drug. If he was stable on let's say .5 mgs (what I took for 13 years), then a case could perhaps be made for why he should go back on the drug. Even ppl who are doing well on benzos who have taken them long-term and don't want to come off them wish they were not dependent on these drugs. Miss one dose or run out of your pills and you can become violently sick.

I too think if you are off benzos and suffering intolerably, SSRIs are a far better long-term solution (provided you can find one that works that you can tolerate). Professor Ashton wrote about this in her Ashton manual.

The problem with @[Go...] I think is that he has been on several SSRIs or is on one now (can't remember). 

I would also pour my heart and soul into the lifestyle things like a super healthy diet and daily exercise along with some mind/body relaxation things like TM.

@[An...] yes im on an SSRI now.  I just dont know what to do anymore.  This is worse than anything I've read here, and my dose was way higher.  Im out of other options.

[[An...]]

Gonzo, when you were initially put on K, how much did they start you out on?

[[Go...]]

2002, I started with 1.5 mgs