Switch from 1 mg K to V

[[fo...]]

Hello. I’ve been planning a water taper from K but feel I’m in tolerance and I’m struggling. I have severe long Covid and the symptoms are very similar to benzo tolerance I’m finding. I didn’t have one day of issues prior to Covid but it definitely messed with my brain. My psychiatrist mentioned switching to diazepam and I appreciate his offering but his crossover was crazy fast!

Im on 1 mg K daily and I take it at 9 am and 2 pm.

Can someone please help me figure out a cross taper from 1 mg K to 20 mg V dosing twice daily? My long Covid plus benzo mind isn’t doing so well.

Thank you!!

[Guest [...]]

Hi formy4kids

 

Does your psychiatrist give a reason for having you cross from klonopin to diazepam?

 

Also, if you were to cross over… you may be better off looking at crossing to more like 15mg diazepam, as the equivalence is more like 0.5mg k = 7.5mg diazepam. You could always up-dose if necessary, rather than crossing to a higher dose and then having to taper over a longer period of time.

 

Have you checked out the Ashton Manual crossover schedule for clonazepam to diazepam (as a guide)

 

Click on slow withdrawal schedules and scroll down to clonazepam 1.5mg crossover. I know you’re on 1mg… it’s just meant as a guide.

 

The Ashton Manual

[[fo...]]

His reasoning was that I’m pretty miserable and if it’s tolerance (hard to tell the difference between tolerance and long Covid symptoms) then he felt I may do better switching to a different drug and stabilizing prior to tapering. I am not certain about doing this. I just want a slow, safe taper and o need to be able to function, I was planning to water taper because I like microtapering. I’ve seen many struggle with cut and hold. It sometimes appears as if we are asking the CNS to stabilize and withdraw over and over again. If there were a way to microtaper from dry I’d love to hear it.

 

I have read the Ashton manual and yes, there wasn’t a 1 mg cross over offered. I did see the 1.5 but my brain is mush after long Covid plus benzo issues. I appreciate you replying. Thank you

[Guest [...]]

What are your symptoms?

 

Did your symptoms begin right after you contracted Covid?

 

Just trying to gain a better insight…

[[fo...]]

I had zero symptoms of any trouble with my benzo prior to Covid. Absolutely none. After my long Covid diagnosis I had internal tremors, POTS, stiff neck and shoulders, pins and needles mostly legs and feet (tested negative for neuropathy), weight loss, dry mouth, pain in ears, and originally was stuck in fight or flight due to long Covid attacking the autonomic nervous system but that’s improved with meditation, deep breathing and pacing myself. I also have histamine issues and get skin flushes like whole body goose bumps often. It’s been a year of this.

[Guest [...]]

I’m really sorry things got so bad after the Covid, F4K.

 

probably one of the reasons I ask… is because you mention you’re not sure about doing this crossover.

 

Im wondering how your body will handle the crossover, whether you’re aware symptoms may increase over the short term, and because of the question mark around whether your symptoms are benzo related or if they are still as a result of long Covid? It’s a bit of a guessing game… whether the crossover will resolve many of your symptoms or not.

 

But, that being said… there really is only one way to find out…

 

I did a direct switch from clonazepam to diazepam after a 19 day c/t, which was rough, to say the least, but it worked out okay in the end. You definitely want to do a sensible slow crossover though, if crossing over is in fact what you choose to do.

 

Just be aware that the first few weeks of diazepam can feel overly sedating, but the slow crossover will help with that to a degree, and you should eventually adjust to it as I did. Some members say they also experience a level of depression on diazepam, but, my experience was that that also resolved as I adjusted. I’m not saying any of this to scare you away from the crossover, just letting you know that it’s not necessarily all smooth sailing as you crossover and adjust to the new medication. Keep in mind that your body will be going through somewhat of a withdrawal period from the clonazepam underneath the diazepam.

 

I’ll take a look at the tables and see what sort of crossover schedule we can come up with.

[[fo...]]

I thank you. Yes I’m aware my body my not adjust and I’ve read other members that have really struggled. I am just trying to gather my plan. I currently have a water taper plan because I do prefer to microdose daily and not cut and hold. If these symptoms are tolerance, I am not sure I can handle all this for the years time it will take me to taper. My psychiatrist of course offered to cross taper to A to just stay on permanently but I don’t believe that’s s good option for me. The K has worked amazingly well since I initiated it until my Covid infection. Adding a taper to all these symptoms terrifies me but if it’s part of the symptoms then I need to address it. Very lost!

[Guest [...]]

 

Will get back to you about the crossover.

 

I’ve also asked an admin to take a look here.

[[Pa...]]

Hi formy4kids,

 

I’m sure sorry to hear long Covid has messed you up so much but I’m questioning the cross to Valium.  I feel a better option would be to wait until your Covid symptoms have settled, then see where you stand with the Klonopin.  I hate to see you introduce a new medication if you were doing okay with Klonopin especially if you’re still symptomatic from the Covid, it will be difficult to know what is causing what. 

 

 

[[fo...]]

Thank you, Pamster. This is for certain exactly my issue…..I don’t know what’s causing what. I had no problems with my K prior to long Covid but the LC symptoms mirror those of what I believe tolerance W/D would feel like. I’m waiting for my long Covid to ease but unfortunately many are still very sick at year 3 and I’m obviously hoping that won’t be my reality. However, if I AM in tolerance (several people on a benzo have stated their benzo stopped working due to the CNS damage from long Covid) won’t the tolerance worsen if not addressed? That’s my fear. I want to ne able to do a slow, safe taper and had planned a microtaper from water with help from Bob7. My greatest fear is for this to be tolerance and to get bad enough that I end up in a rapid detox situation instead of being able to slow taper. It’s true that if I tapered now, I wouldn’t know what was LC and what was w/d. It’s a mess for certain. I’ve had 5 neurologists prescribe gabapentin in a low dose because Covid did hurt my CNS and they stare it’s a neuron stabilizer. I’ve not taken it yet out of fear but I’m miserable.

Any thoughts on if tolerance can get bad enough that I then am unable to slowly taper? What a mess!

[Guest [...]]

Thank you, Pamster. This is for certain exactly my issue…..I don’t know what’s causing what. I had no problems with my K prior to long Covid but the LC symptoms mirror those of what I believe tolerance W/D would feel like. I’m waiting for my long Covid to ease but unfortunately many are still very sick at year 3 and I’m obviously hoping that won’t be my reality. However, if I AM in tolerance (several people on a benzo have stated their benzo stopped working due to the CNS damage from long Covid) won’t the tolerance worsen if not addressed? That’s my fear. I want to ne able to do a slow, safe taper and had planned a microtaper from water with help from Bob7. My greatest fear is for this to be tolerance and to get bad enough that I end up in a rapid detox situation instead of being able to slow taper. It’s true that if I tapered now, I wouldn’t know what was LC and what was w/d. It’s a mess for certain. I’ve had 5 neurologists prescribe gabapentin in a low dose because Covid did hurt my CNS and they stare it’s a neuron stabilizer. I’ve not taken it yet out of fear but I’m miserable.

Any thoughts on if tolerance can get bad enough that I then am unable to slowly taper? What a mess!

 

Hi fm4k

 

Based on this above post, I think you need to start tapering slowly. Tolerance or no tolerance, there’s no way off without tapering. Take it slow.

 

Initially, I wondered why your doctor would suggest crossing to diazepam, and I wondered if he thought it would help alleviate tolerance symptoms (if you were in tolerance), which it wouldn’t. Now I think it was probably just to make a slower taper (smaller reductions) easier. But I don’t think it’s necessary, as you can taper slowly off the clonazepam slowly with the right method and guidance, which, as you mentioned… Bob7 will help you with. Given how you are feeling… I don’t think it’s wise for you to put yourself through a potentially difficult crossover to diazepam for just that one reason… to make taper reductions easier. Personally, I would just figure out a nice slow taper method/schedule with Bob7 and go with that.

[[fo...]]

Thank you for your advice. Yes, the psychiatrist stated that if K  had stopped working for me, that we could simply cross me to At*van or Dia**pam. Not to taper, but just for long term treatment. It made me nervous he would think that was an answer. First, he recommended updosing the K. I’ve never increased in 15 years and haven’t wanted to do that. I know I’ve read it’s good to be stable when initiating a taper. I couldn’t be LESS stable than I am right now. My mental health is suffering as well but 10 months of 10/10 long Covid pain takes a toll and our brains are stuck in fight or flight. Tapering scares me because I wonder “how much can my CNS take?”.  I am also fearful of tolerance, however. I feel like I’m drowning, and I don’t see a way out. Long Covid is hell and there are no answers do embarking on this makes me wonder where in the world do I find the strength?