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Detox/Tapering w/Phenobarbitol & Librium. Anyone familiar with this method?


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        SO GLAD YOU ARE ALL HERE!!!  You are all a Wealth of Information!!! (which I really need right now).

 

Have been doing research for the past two weeks on my own & finding so many DIFFERENT protocols, etc. 

 

I contacted an MD that is on the Benzo Knowledgable List.

  This is what they have been using for Benzo/Xanax dependant people wishing to get off the meds.

   

THEIR PROTOCOL IS:

No IV, but Phenobarbital & possibly Librium orally. They claim that Librium (although also Benzo),

is an older medicine & has the ability to heal the Nervous System.  Then, taper down

from the Librium.

 

They claim they do Symptom Responsive therapy, rather than a Protocol (like the Detox centers).

 

They stated: "Detox is a Cinch, it's what you do after that, that is just as important".

 

  They stated that although the Ashton was the best method, in the near past, they have

seen better results coming off of Xanax with the above.

  They also believe in Supplementing heavily: Vitamin C, Fish Oil, multiple vitamin, speciliazed detox vitamins (they would not give me these specifics), etc.

 

They stated they have also seen patients from all over the US; that have failed attempt(s) in the normal Detox Centers.  Those patients were helped by the above program.  Each person is different, etc.

 

Any info. you would like to share. Or, if you've heard of success stories with the above meds, would

be nice to hear. 

 

No matter what I do, I feel as if I will be placing my life into someone's hands, just would like it

to be the Most Appropriate one & ONE TIME ONLY (if possible).

 

Will also be starting another topic:  Dental Issues/Bone Loss due to Long Term Benzo Use?

 

 

        Man, this Rollercoaster Ride is really tough...

 

 

                                  THANK YOU !!!!

 

                                                    Gina

 

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Their claims sound to good to be true, sorta like the sales pitch the Holistic Detox Center I went to gave me.  I'd be EXTREMELY careful!
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Hi & Thank You for your reply :-)

 

Am so confused. Ugh!!!

 

Am I to understand that there are many facilities out there that are out to

'make a buck', instead of helping us?

 

How can I tell who is really going to help vs. the fakes?

 

AM so exhausted from doing this research, just don't want to fall into the wrong hands.

 

  Are there any red flags I should be looking for when asking questions?

They do seem to be very expensive.  Will have to sell many of my belongings to pay for

this.  But want to make sure they are the REAL DEAL, instead of the fakes.

 

        Look forward to any information you may be willing to share...

         

                            Gina....

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In my opinion Gina, they are all fakes.  They prey on our misery and fears.  If there really was a magic cure for benzo w/d, people would be flocking to it by the masses.  Their claims that Librium being an older benzo has the ability to heal the nervous system is a flat out lie.

 

The only known cure for this is time.  If you look to medicine to cure this you will more than likely just be making more problems for yourself.  It is hard for any of us to swallow the fact that we have to endure so much torture to be free of this drug.  But as everyone says around here...Acceptance is key.

 

It is not easy, no way.  But you will be doing youself a huge favor if you can bring yourself to it.  I would be sick if I found out one more addiction person or medical person harmed you again, adding insult to your injury.

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Hi Gina

 

Can you please make a signature to your profile so we can better understand how to help you? Here are some instructions on how to do that;

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9432.0

 

Generally detox is just that - detox, and you're out the door. Their job is to get you safely through it, the recovery is another story and can take months to feel better.  They may know about benzos but not really aware of the long term recovery a person may have to endure and they don't have the time or accommodations to treat people long term, but they'll take your money to detox you safely.

 

Did you ask them what they mean by Symptom Responsive therapy and what it entails?

They claim they do Symptom Responsive therapy, rather than a Protocol (like the Detox centers).

 

Also, I'd ask them about their "detox vitamins"

They also believe in Supplementing heavily: Vitamin C, Fish Oil, multiple vitamin, speciliazed detox vitamins (they would not give me these specifics), etc.

 

Are you having a really hard time with tolerance?

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Yes, am having an extremely hard time in Tolerance Withdrawal.  I suspect have been in Tol. w/d for some time, just did not know what it was - perhaps since January. 

 

Did not want to do this, but actually upped the dosage a bit, just to get stable while I research what to do.

 

Have not stabilized.  Felt 'dopey' for 2 days, then the tremors, sweats, insomnia, no patience, agitation, etc.

  Now, the mind fog.  Have been very coherent for 20 years, now do not feel like me at all. 

 

Have to make a decision soon, otherwise, not sure where I will end up.

 

       

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Gina, thanks so much for adding a signature  :)

 

It looks like you're taking 2 mg a day? I think I remember you saying your doctor won't work with you to taper off, can you get another doctor to switch you to Valium or Klonopin? Do you have enough pills to get by for awhile? I hate to see you enter a detox if you're able to wean off, but I sooooo know how you feel right now as your story is so similar to mine.

 

I figured the doctors in that list were doctors that would help you to wean off slowly, were there none there to help you?

 

 

 

 

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Hi Star, Yes, THANK YOU for sending me the link for the Benzo Wise Docs.

  Started calling the next day.  One is no longer even listed in any phone books.

Was able to speak to someone at the other office (Doc on the BEnzo Wise List).

They use Phenobarbitol & Librium to get off Xanax. 

Have sent the post to the board to see if anyone has been successful with that

method.  Noone has responded yes so far.

  And, they are not using the Ashton Method, CrossOver to Valium, then

tapering method.

    Want to make a move, but the RIGHT move.  Am seeing that many places

want to put me on other drugs. My research shows that I would then have to be

taken off of those as well (Suboxone, Klonopin, and the list goes on).

        Still trying to find a good Benzo Wise Doc.

 

            Hanging in there for now....  Gina

 

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I'm sorry you're not having luck so far. That list may need to be updated, it's the only list I know of so it was worth a try. If you have an insurance company they my be able to help you land a doctor in your area, you might give that a try too.

 

Just the stress of indecision can make symptoms worse, I think once you find the direction to go, that alone will make feel a bit better.

 

Be strong, you'll get there  :thumbsup:

 

 

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[79...]

Gina,

Where do you live? PLEASE do not go to DETOX. UGH...I made that very mistake. I had NO idea that Benzo W/D even existed. I just thought that I needed to be medically supervised so that I did not have a seizure. I was told by them that I would be "fine" in 30 days. This was NOT the case. I left there in a WORLD of hurt and was so terribly messed up. I, too, was in tolerance W/D on the medication before I went in and this was my motivation for coming off. I was SO much better in tolerance W/D than I was when I got out of "rehab". Not to mention, I was treated poorly, called an addict, put on phenobarbitol (NASTY DRUG) and ripped off of all of my meds in one day. The pheno taper was six days long and once they took that away, I was in BAD SHAPE. If I can save ANYONE from going to rehab, I will speak up and do so. They're ALL the same...if you can taper, I believe that you'll ultimately wind up in a better place.

 

You need to find an MD that will work with you to cross to Klonopin or Valium in order to do a proper taper off. The cross itself may help you w/ the tolerance and interdose w/d that you're getting from Xanax. Where do you live? Perhaps we can help you find an MD in your area that will provide you w/ Klonopin or Valium. This does not always have to be a Psych. Some people are helped by their family DRs. Whatever the case, I would NOT go to rehab unless you think that there is no way on Earth that you can possibly do a slow, controlled taper from home.

 

Hang in there. There's a solution to this...you just have to work on finding an MD that will work with you. Some members show up w/ the Ashton method printed off and present it to their MDs in order to get them to comply. I wish you the best of luck in your situation.

 

Much love, Nicole

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Gina,

 

I agree with everything Nicole said.  Sorry if I came across extremely negative, but I too went to Detox and came out in really bad shape.

 

They gave me all the supplements you listed before and Vitamin IV's with GABA in them, which they made miraculous claims about.  All their claims turned out to be false in my case.

 

I COMPLETELY understand where you are.  I was in the same boat last year.  I was in tolerance w/d and becoming quite desperate.  I wanted to make the best decision about what to do as well.  I had to switch family doctors a few times until I finally found one willing to work with me.  He is a D.O. and agreed to switching the Ativan over to Valium.

 

I wish I would have known that some people do not do well on Valium, if I did I would have tried Klonopin instead.  When I did not do well with Valium I became even more desperate, and the Detox Center told me every reassurance my traumatised mind wanted to hear, so I went.

 

In hindsight, if I could go back in time, I would have told my doctor the Valium did not agree with me and I would have asked him to switch me to Klonopin.  Many people here have used a titration method with K and if I had known then what I know now, that is probably what I would have done as well.

 

I think that those of us who had bad Detox experiences are just scared of it happening to someone else.  No matter which way you go, in the end we all heal.

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Hi there,

I took Pheno for the 1st week after I jumped, but I would never take Librium. It's another benzo so... obviously it's a no-go. I still have some pheno on hand in case of emergencies. I was uncomfortable taking it because it's a barbituate but I got through it. It made my insomnia worse for some reason and I've read that's actually common. But the benefits were worth it for me. It took away the dizziness and replaced most of my other symptoms with a general relaxed kinda "high" feeling (which I also was uncomfortable with, but what can you do). If you take Pheno just know that it is made for VERY short term use. No more than 2 weeks I'd say (although your dr might offer more - my dr gave me 30 days worth!  :o) Be very careful with it and do not mix ANY other meds with it. It's dangerous but very useful for benzo w/d I believe.

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Hi All, THANK YOU Perseverance, Star, Hollyms, Lambr, I appreciate your information - REALLY!!!

 

Star, regarding the Benzo Wise Doc List, was able to contact one Dr. Kornfeld office - Mill Valley California. Then, Blugrey & Linda K (the 20 year club) recommended I speak with gsasf, as he lives in SF as well.

 

Gsasf recommended I NOT go to KORNFELD.  Kornfeld office is the Phenobarbitol & Librium process I had been asking about on this forum.

 

Yes, have received 2 other names of possibilities of where to go to find a DOC to cross me over to Valium.

 

With my Tolerance W/D & Inter Dose W/D, am just concerned that will end up in an ER somewhere & then, will

be in real trouble; since I've heard detox places are not result-oriented & sounds like HORRIBLE EXPERIENCES.

 

Will be making more calls today & tomorrow to hope to find someone that will work with me on this.

In the meantime, I don't really don't understand this drug & all it's w/d symptoms.

 

Lambers (sp?) you mentioned you tried the Phenobarbitol route.  Did it help & have you been able to

start tapering with your meds?

 

                Hanging in there, for now.......... Gina

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Star, regarding the Benzo Wise Doc List, was able to contact one Dr. Kornfeld office - Mill Valley California. Then, Blugrey & Linda K (the 20 year club) recommended I speak with gsasf, as he lives in SF as well.

 

Gsasf recommended I NOT go to KORNFELD.  Kornfeld office is the Phenobarbitol & Librium process I had been asking about on this forum.

 

That list is vague really, but it's the only one I know of so I thought you might have some luck, I'm sorry things didn't work out. Actually, maybe reporting this to that site could help keep that list up to date. I'm hoping you're closer to finding a doc to help you?

 

 

 

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[79...]

 

Lambers (sp?) you mentioned you tried the Phenobarbitol route.  Did it help & have you been able to

start tapering with your meds?

 

               

 

Gina,

As I mentioned previously, ALL of my meds were STOPPED in one day at rehab and I was given pheno for six days. It was a taper over six days off of the pheno. I was in TERRIBLE shape after this. NO, it did not help me. I was then told to "stick it out", as I was off for about 2 months before I discovered Ashton or any forums for support. By 4 months, my symptoms were WORSE and I was slipping. I was very suicidal and didn't know what to do, so I reinstated to 1.25mg of K (much less than what I was C/T'ed from...I was C/T'ed from 3mg K/d, 1mg X/d and 10mg Ambien/d, as well as 20mg/d of Adderall). Ugh. What a MESS I was. I am STILL a mess b/c my reinstatement 4 months into the C/T only worked to keep the C/T w/d from getting worse. So, I am still in terrible shape from the C/T and am not liquid titrating off of the Klonopin that I reinstated on. I am down to .875, but am in bad shape. I have no choice but to continue to taper as I am doing and to pray for the best.

 

If I had it to do all over again, even w/ the severe tolerance that I was in, I would have updosed slightly, dropped the X and Ambien and liquid titrated down from the K. Or, crossed to V. I think if you cross from your Xanax to a longer acting drug, you won't be experiencing as much interdose W/D and you'll most likely be more comfortable. Just my opinion.

 

If I can save ONE person from rehab or detox, I will speak out about my experience, as it was horrific and I am still suffering terribly from it today. I wish you the best in your decision and hope that you can find an MD who is willing to work with you so that you can taper.

 

Much love, Nicole

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