Kindling query

[[Mi...]]

Mixed messages on line so looking for a firm definition here.

Does it mean coming completely off a benzo then going back on (perhaps repeated)?

OR does it mean tapers when you have got down so far then reinstated without actually ever getting off?

Super anxious about everything today and appreciate some knowledge. Thank you MP

[[Th...]]

I know there are kinds of kindling. But kindling basically means doing something that father upsets your nervous system.

 

The common examples of things that cause kindling:

 

drinking alcohol

Trying a new drug or going back on one/taking and discontinuing drugs.

Reinstating a dose to try to get stable is a toss up.

Taking an antibiotic.

 

So something that causes your nervous system to destabilize more.

 

There is a link to a page on it but I can't find it. Hopefully someone will fill in if I missed somthing.

[[Mi...]]

Thank you. I read the page earlier but I was getting muddled.

I have been up and down on the lorazapam before crossing to diazepam but at no point have I ever been off them.

I am starting to think I have an impossible task ahead and I would like to hear some success stories as well please.

Thank you

I know there are kinds of kindling. But kindling basically means doing something that father upsets your nervous system.

 

The common examples of things that cause kindling:

 

drinking alcohol

Trying a new drug or going back on one/taking and discontinuing drugs.

Reinstating a dose to try to get stable is a toss up.

Taking an antibiotic.

 

So something that causes your nervous system to destabilize more.

 

There is a link to a page on it but I can't find it. Hopefully someone will fill in if I missed somthing.

[[Th...]]

There are a kindling success stories. I don't usually collect those ones. But here is one from the top of my head

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/22891-sheps-success-leaving-platos-cave/

 

Hopefully others will add on.

[[Bi...]]

Oooh - alcohol being referred to as kindling and affecting your nervous system, that really intrigues me, as the few times I have had a few drinks and then realised just how much it hits me and makes it hit my head in such strange ways, is that what kindling refers to?

[[Li...]]

Here’s the definition of kindling from the Alliance for Benzodiazepines Best Practices (ABBP):

 

Kindling: Sensitization of the nervous system due to repeated use and discontinuation of benzodiazepines. With each successive discontinuation, the individual is at higher risk for experiencing more severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

ABBP considers kindling to be a clinically relevant phenomenon but also recognizes that the research base for kindling in the context of benzodiazepine use is lacking. ABBP also suggests that PRN (as needed) use of benzodiazepines may result in kindling.

 

To learn more:

 

Kindling - The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices

https://benzoreform.org/kindling/

 

Kindling - Benzodiazepine Information Coalition

https://www.benzoinfo.com/kindling/

[[Mi...]]

Thank you Libertas. Do you think it means a complete stop and not a tomo type effect? Eg. 3mg - 1mg - 2mg - 0.5mg - 2mg lorazapam before I crossed over?

Here’s the definition of kindling from the Alliance for Benzodiazepines Best Practices (ABBP):

 

Kindling: Sensitization of the nervous system due to repeated use and discontinuation of benzodiazepines. With each successive discontinuation, the individual is at higher risk for experiencing more severe withdrawal symptoms.

 

ABBP considers kindling to be a clinically relevant phenomenon but also recognizes that the research base for kindling in the context of benzodiazepine use is lacking. ABBP also suggests that PRN (as needed) use of benzodiazepines may result in kindling.

 

To learn more:

 

Kindling - The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices

https://benzoreform.org/kindling/

 

Kindling - Benzodiazepine Information Coalition

https://www.benzoinfo.com/kindling/

[[Li...]]

Not according to the definition from the Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices. Please keep in mind that the research base on kindling from benzodiazepine use is quite limited.

[[Mi...]]

Thank you Libertas

Interestingly as I tried to go down from 11.5 to 11 diazepam at the start of the year. I was hit with some terrible s/x. I had done one updose last June from 10 to 12 and held. I also wondered if that had an impact.

I am a worry wart!

Not according to the definition from the Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices. Please keep in mind that the research base on kindling from benzodiazepine use is quite limited.

[[Mi...]]

Libertas - any thoughts here? Or anyone else.

Thank you Libertas

Interestingly as I tried to go down from 11.5 to 11 diazepam at the start of the year. I was hit with some terrible s/x. I had done one updose last June from 10 to 12 and held. I also wondered if that had an impact.

I am a worry wart!

Not according to the definition from the Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices. Please keep in mind that the research base on kindling from benzodiazepine use is quite limited.

[[Pa...]]

Libertas - any thoughts here? Or anyone else.

Thank you Libertas

Interestingly as I tried to go down from 11.5 to 11 diazepam at the start of the year. I was hit with some terrible s/x. I had done one updose last June from 10 to 12 and held. I also wondered if that had an impact.

I am a worry wart!

Not according to the definition from the Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices. Please keep in mind that the research base on kindling from benzodiazepine use is quite limited.

 

Are you asking if you were kindled?  If you are I don't believe the definition applies to your situation. 

 

[[Mi...]]

Thank you Pamster. Wonder why I would be hit so badly going from 11.5 to 11.25 to 11mg then.

I am now up at after putting together the diazepam and temezepam but still not stabilised. How much longer do you think? Scared to updose incase I am in withdrawal tolerance to the diazepam. Any genius ideas?

Symptoms are same as 11 drop - no appetite, upset stomach, little sleep, no concentration, not wanting to go outside and SI. I am getting so frustrated that it is not lifting.I stupidly assumed by putting them together it would be a good idea X

[[Ha...]]

Hi mp, I’m wondering if when you say stabilised you mean feeling better? Unfortunately, I can’t say I ever stabilised during my taper…..just a series of terrible days, awful days, not so good days and just days. It’s only now at 4 months off that I can really say I’ve had some very good days.

Sorry about that but like everyone keeps saying, the only way out is through.

I don’t think updosing would stabilise you and it would certainly prolong the recovery process….

however, I know you have been feeling pretty despairing lately and we all must do what we have to do.

I so regret taking a rescue dose a couple of weeks ago but I was in extremis and frightening my husband so it was necessary. I will now avoid any situation where I might need another.

You really don’t know if it is the change in drug regime that is making you feel bad, it maybe just how things are at this point in your withdrawal……and it certainly wasn’t stupid.

Everyone going through this is very brave indeed!

Hardy x

[[Mi...]]

Thank you Hardy ♥️

I also think the progesterone is playing a part from the bc pill and HRT.

It would be good to hear if anyone could get off the benzos while on the progesterone. It is making me so anxious x

[[Pa...]]

How long have you been on hormones?

[[Mi...]]

How long have you been on hormones?

 

Bc pill over 10 years

HRT April 2021

Benzos June 2020

 

Had majority of dips on progesterone (with or without reducing meds). Seems a bit suspicious but scared to come off. There are only not good stories about progesterone. These dips are long (usually 6 weeks) and really hard.

 

I am getting so upset that I am caught between all these drugs. Also seems to be very little success stories for diazepam 😢

 

Please advise next steps

[[Pa...]]

My suggestion would be to leave all hormones in place while you taper off of the Diazepam, I doubt they're causing you any problems at the moment and even if they are, the benzo is by far the greatest source of your discomfort.  I believe you're ready to begin your taper, Diazepam is the gold standard for benzodiazepine withdrawal, you're very lucky you found a doctor to prescribe it, very few doctors in the US will prescribe it.

 

What dose do you plan to reduce to and when?

[[Mi...]]

Pamster

I have just combined the temezepam and diazepam but still not feeling stable. Feel like I am in terrible wave.

Also I have hot it in my head that if I can not get off the diazapam then I will never be able to get off the HRT and progesterone bc pill. I feel like it is unconquerable.

My suggestion would be to leave all hormones in place while you taper off of the Diazepam, I doubt they're causing you any problems at the moment and even if they are, the benzo is by far the greatest source of your discomfort.  I believe you're ready to begin your taper, Diazepam is the gold standard for benzodiazepine withdrawal, you're very lucky you found a doctor to prescribe it, very few doctors in the US will prescribe it.

 

What dose do you plan to reduce to and when?

[[Li...]]

Also seems to be very little success stories for diazepam 😢

 

My recollection is that Professor Ashton’s patients had a success rate of over 90% with diazepam. Case in point — we’ve had at least two members in recent weeks who successfully completed tapers after crossing over to diazepam.  Also, please bear in mind that many members complete successful tapers but do not return to write Success Stories.

[[Ha...]]

Excellent points Libertas!

[[Pa...]]

Pamster

I have just combined the temezepam and diazepam but still not feeling stable. Feel like I am in terrible wave.

Also I have hot it in my head that if I can not get off the diazapam then I will never be able to get off the HRT and progesterone bc pill. I feel like it is unconquerable.

My suggestion would be to leave all hormones in place while you taper off of the Diazepam, I doubt they're causing you any problems at the moment and even if they are, the benzo is by far the greatest source of your discomfort.  I believe you're ready to begin your taper, Diazepam is the gold standard for benzodiazepine withdrawal, you're very lucky you found a doctor to prescribe it, very few doctors in the US will prescribe it.

 

What dose do you plan to reduce to and when?

 

Are you able to perform your daily tasks, what does your typical day consist of?

[[Mi...]]

No, I am not.

No appetite, upset stomach, no motivation, low mood, not wanting to do anything or see people, little sleep

Pamster

I have just combined the temezepam and diazepam but still not feeling stable. Feel like I am in terrible wave.

Also I have hot it in my head that if I can not get off the diazapam then I will never be able to get off the HRT and progesterone bc pill. I feel like it is unconquerable.

My suggestion would be to leave all hormones in place while you taper off of the Diazepam, I doubt they're causing you any problems at the moment and even if they are, the benzo is by far the greatest source of your discomfort.  I believe you're ready to begin your taper, Diazepam is the gold standard for benzodiazepine withdrawal, you're very lucky you found a doctor to prescribe it, very few doctors in the US will prescribe it.

 

What dose do you plan to reduce to and when?

 

Are you able to perform your daily tasks, what does your typical day consist of?

 

 

Edit: Content

[[Mi...]]

I cannot believe how low I feel

I would like to hear how people manage to continue to be brave

I think the progesterone is playing a part or that I am in tolerance to the diazepam.

Also seems to be very little success stories for diazepam 😢

 

My recollection is that Professor Ashton’s patients had a success rate of over 90% with diazepam. Case in point — we’ve had at least two members in recent weeks who successfully completed tapers after crossing over to diazepam.  Also, please bear in mind that many members complete successful tapers but do not return to write Success Stories.

[[Pa...]]

No, I am not.

No appetite, upset stomach, no motivation, low mood, not wanting to do anything or see people, little sleep

Pamster

I have just combined the temezepam and diazepam but still not feeling stable. Feel like I am in terrible wave.

Also I have hot it in my head that if I can not get off the diazapam then I will never be able to get off the HRT and progesterone bc pill. I feel like it is unconquerable.

My suggestion would be to leave all hormones in place while you taper off of the Diazepam, I doubt they're causing you any problems at the moment and even if they are, the benzo is by far the greatest source of your discomfort.  I believe you're ready to begin your taper, Diazepam is the gold standard for benzodiazepine withdrawal, you're very lucky you found a doctor to prescribe it, very few doctors in the US will prescribe it.

 

What dose do you plan to reduce to and when?

 

Are you able to perform your daily tasks, what does your typical day consist of?

 

 

Edit: Content

 

What tasks can you perform each day, can you get out of bed, can you prepare yourself something to eat, if you have pets, can you feed them, please tell me what you can accomplish each day.

[[Mi...]]

Can get out of bed

Can shower

Can make basic food

 

No, I am not.

No appetite, upset stomach, no motivation, low mood, not wanting to do anything or see people, little sleep

Pamster

I have just combined the temezepam and diazepam but still not feeling stable. Feel like I am in terrible wave.

Also I have hot it in my head that if I can not get off the diazapam then I will never be able to get off the HRT and progesterone bc pill. I feel like it is unconquerable.

My suggestion would be to leave all hormones in place while you taper off of the Diazepam, I doubt they're causing you any problems at the moment and even if they are, the benzo is by far the greatest source of your discomfort.  I believe you're ready to begin your taper, Diazepam is the gold standard for benzodiazepine withdrawal, you're very lucky you found a doctor to prescribe it, very few doctors in the US will prescribe it.

 

What dose do you plan to reduce to and when?

 

Are you able to perform your daily tasks, what does your typical day consist of?

 

 

Edit: Content

 

What tasks can you perform each day, can you get out of bed, can you prepare yourself something to eat, if you have pets, can you feed them, please tell me what you can accomplish each day.