Liquid Micro Taper Valium help

[[St...]]

Hi , can somebody please help me figure out a daily micro taper from pharma liquid diazepam ? I can't figure out how this is best done. I don't have pills, is it easier to do it that way? Should I ask for pills as well?

 

I have a 10ml syringe I use for my flat 1ml and I have 1ml syringes that I use for my small number and I am stuck at 5.1ml total dosing split 3x/day . I have 1ml syringes that drop in increments of .02ml. I also wonder is it wise to lower both my daytime doses at the same time? (1.7ml and 1.7ml) or work on eliminating one dose at a time? (I have 3 doses but i'm leaving my nighttime one of 1.74ml alone currently)

[[Pa...]]

Do you still need help, I can ask someone to drop by because I'm as confused as you are. 

[[St...]]

Do you still need help, I can ask someone to drop by because I'm as confused as you are. 

 

Pam, yes I definitely still need help thank you so much for reaching out! I just dont want to crash and burn.

[[...]]

Hi , can somebody please help me figure out a daily micro taper from pharma liquid diazepam ? I can't figure out how this is best done. I don't have pills, is it easier to do it that way? Should I ask for pills as well?

 

I have a 10ml syringe I use for my flat 1ml and I have 1ml syringes that I use for my small number and I am stuck at 5.1ml total dosing split 3x/day . I have 1ml syringes that drop in increments of .02ml. I also wonder is it wise to lower both my daytime doses at the same time? (1.7ml and 1.7ml) or work on eliminating one dose at a time? (I have 3 doses but i'm leaving my nighttime one of 1.74ml alone currently)

If sleep is your big issue, then save the nighttime dose to taper it last.

Everything you are doing - including using the right size syringes - seems spot on.

 

Journal each day your dose and your symptoms so you can use the journal to control the speed of your taper.

Everyone is different, but I have seen success at around 0.04 to 0.06 mL per day reduction. 

[[St...]]

Hi , can somebody please help me figure out a daily micro taper from pharma liquid diazepam ? I can't figure out how this is best done. I don't have pills, is it easier to do it that way? Should I ask for pills as well?

 

I have a 10ml syringe I use for my flat 1ml and I have 1ml syringes that I use for my small number and I am stuck at 5.1ml total dosing split 3x/day . I have 1ml syringes that drop in increments of .02ml. I also wonder is it wise to lower both my daytime doses at the same time? (1.7ml and 1.7ml) or work on eliminating one dose at a time? (I have 3 doses but i'm leaving my nighttime one of 1.74ml alone currently)

If sleep is your big issue, then save the nighttime dose to taper it last.

Everything you are doing - including using the right size syringes - seems spot on.

 

Journal each day your dose and your symptoms so you can use the journal to control the speed of your taper.

Everyone is different, but I have seen success at around 0.04 to 0.06 mL per day reduction.

 

Thank you so much! I will start journaling definitely. Also am I supposed to chase this pharma liquid val with water? Am I diluting it by doing that?

[[...]]

I have never used a compound liquid but if you want my opinion, I think you should drink water after it just in case it absorbs faster in the mouth.  Some chemicals, like vitamin B, absorb more effectively in the mouth than the tummy.  Since benzos were tested as oral pills, I think drinking water to wash it down would be more like a oral pill.

 

[[Li...]]

I have never used a compound liquid but if you want my opinion, I think you should drink water after it just in case it absorbs faster in the mouth.  Some chemicals, like vitamin B, absorb more effectively in the mouth than the tummy.  Since benzos were tested as oral pills, I think drinking water to wash it down would be more like a oral pill.

 

Two points of clarification if I may …

 

StrongLikeThis will correct me if I’ve misunderstood, but I believe she is using the 5mg/5mL, commercially manufactured oral diazepam solution — not a compounded liquid.

 

If so, the manufacturer was required to establish bioavailability and/or demonstrate bioequivalence of the liquid form of the drug (not the solid/pill form) via testing.

 

Re: StrongLikeThis’s question about ‘chasing the liquid with water’ ….

 

Some members have reported that the taste of the oral diazepam solution is less than pleasant.  Indeed, the manufacturer’s label states: ‘Dilute for palatability before using.’  As long as you measure and ingest your entire dose before you wash it down with water, you will be getting the correct dose.  Alternatively, it would also be ok to measure your entire dose, squirt it into a glass of water, and then drink the resulting drug/water mixture.

[[...]]

Thanks Libertas - your answer is much better than mine.

 

[[Li...]]

You’re most welcome, Bob7.

[[St...]]

I have never used a compound liquid but if you want my opinion, I think you should drink water after it just in case it absorbs faster in the mouth.  Some chemicals, like vitamin B, absorb more effectively in the mouth than the tummy.  Since benzos were tested as oral pills, I think drinking water to wash it down would be more like a oral pill.

 

Two points of clarification if I may …

 

StrongLikeThis will correct me if I’ve misunderstood, but I believe she is using the 5mg/5mL, commercially manufactured oral diazepam solution — not a compounded liquid.

 

If so, the manufacturer was required to establish bioavailability and/or demonstrate bioequivalence of the liquid form of the drug (not the solid/pill form) via testing.

 

Re: StrongLikeThis’s question about ‘chasing the liquid with water’ ….

 

Some members have reported that the taste of the oral diazepam solution is less than pleasant.  Indeed, the manufacturer’s label states: ‘Dilute for palatability before using.’  As long as you measure and ingest your entire dose before you wash it down with water, you will be getting the correct dose.  Alternatively, it would also be ok to measure your entire dose, squirt it into a glass of water, and then drink the resulting drug/water mixture.

 

Hey there!

 

First clarification is correct I don't have a compounded med I have the 5mg/5ml roxane brand liquid valium.

 

I'll definitely keep what you said in mind with the chasing of water. It tastes horrible and I even think it's irritating my throat  but i'm pushing through. I will be so glad when I get under 5mg lol i'm so close!

[[Li...]]

Greetings, StrongLikeThis.

 

Thank you for the confirm re: your liquid. Using the professionally formulated and manufactured oral diazepam solution increases the likelihood of accurate dosing.  Because it’s a true solution, each and every milliliter of the liquid contains exactly the same amount of drug.

 

You are not alone in reporting that the taste is horrible.  One member described the oral solution manufactured by Lannett as tasting like “Chernobyl toilet water.” 

 

Re: the throat irritation …

 

Dispensing your dose into a glass of water (or other liquid, e.g. milk), then drinking the drug/liquid mixture might help.  If you go that route, I suggest you swish a little water around in the glass after you consume the drug/liquid mixture; then drink the rinse water.  The rationale for doing this is to remove any drug that might be clinging to the sides of the glass.

 

[[St...]]

Greetings, StrongLikeThis.

 

Thank you for the confirm re: your liquid. Using the professionally formulated and manufactured oral diazepam solution increases the likelihood of accurate dosing.  Because it’s a true solution, each and every milliliter of the liquid contains exactly the same amount of drug.

 

You are not alone in reporting that the taste is horrible.  One member described the oral solution manufactured by Lannett as tasting like “Chernobyl toilet water.” 

 

Re: the throat irritation …

 

Dispensing your dose into a glass of water (or other liquid, e.g. milk), then drinking the drug/liquid mixture might help.  If you go that route, I suggest you swish a little water around in the glass after you consume the drug/liquid mixture; then drink the rinse water.  The rationale for doing this is to remove any drug that might be clinging to the sides of the glass.

 

Libertas,

 

HAHAHA yes the toilet water! If I don't drink anything the horrid taste lingers for sure.

Whew That potency must be why I feel every literal DROP of medicine I eliminate. I have been going down literally drip drop by drop. I wonder if i'm so sensitive to the cuts because I haven't been on it long and am already reducing....

[[Li...]]

Have you considered diluting your oral diazepam solution to make it less concentrated (e.g. 0.1mg/mL vs 1mg/ml)?  Some members do this so they can make smaller reductions in dose. 

[[St...]]

Have you considered diluting your oral diazepam solution to make it less concentrated (e.g. 0.1mg/mL vs 1mg/ml)?  Some members do this so they can make smaller reductions in dose.

 

Hmm I hadn't considered this! So happy to be learning there is more than one way to do this taper !

[[Li...]]

Our members are quite creative in finding ways to make ‘small enough’ reductions in dose.

 

Please be aware that diluting the commercial solution requires drug manipulation (i.e. modification of a commercial dosage form).  Per our Titration: FAQs, drug manipulation/modification conveys risk.  In this case, one of the risks is that some of the diazepam in the commercial solution may precipitate out of solution when more liquid (most members use water) is added.  To mitigate this risk, we suggest that members regard the diluted liquid as a suspension with unknown stability and handle it accordingly (e.g., make smaller rather than larger batches; shake the diluted liquid well before using it; measure doses as quickly as possible). 

 

We also have one member who is using whole fat, homogenized milk to dilute her highly concentrated (10mg/mL) commercial oral diazepam solution.  She performed an extensive literature review before arriving at this decision.  I’ve included a link to her post below.

 

Link:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=267260.msg3372864#msg3372864

 

[[St...]]

Our members are quite creative in finding ways to make ‘small enough’ reductions in dose.

 

Please be aware that diluting the commercial solution requires drug manipulation (i.e. modification of a commercial dosage form).  Per our Titration: FAQs, drug manipulation/modification conveys risk.  In this case, one of the risks is that some of the diazepam in the commercial solution may precipitate out of solution when more liquid (most members use water) is added.  To mitigate this risk, we suggest that members regard the diluted liquid as a suspension with unknown stability and handle it accordingly (e.g., make smaller rather than larger batches; shake the diluted liquid well before using it; measure doses as quickly as possible). 

 

We also have one member who is using whole fat, homogenized milk to dilute her highly concentrated (10mg/mL) commercial oral diazepam solution.  She performed an extensive literature review before arriving at this decision.  I’ve included a link to her post below.

 

Link:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=267260.msg3372864#msg3372864

 

Your responses have been so helpful ! Thank you so much. I'm terrified of the cut and hold as i'm still trying to be functional so i'm gonna eliminate drop by drop and hope this syringe change i'm about to do doesn't mess me up. Eliminating daily helps my mental too to know i'm making progress day by day. I'll squirt med into my mouth and immediately swish down with water. I'm gonna keep you updated !

 

I'll be so happy to make it under 5mg 😭

My psych wants me to use depakote for 2 weeks to help make bigger cuts but as bad as I want off this med I AM TERRIFIED of polydrugging. So slow and steady i'll keep going.

[[Li...]]

You are most welcome.  I’m glad my input has been helpful.

 

Please don’t be terrified of ‘cut and hold,’ especially not with diazepam.

 

Regrettably, ‘cut and hold’ is often mis-interpreted as making ‘too large’ cuts and consequently having to hold for ‘too long’ an amount of time to recover.  In reality, many individuals taper successfully using what I have dubbed the ‘Goldilocks Approach’ to tapering. They make ‘small enough’ reductions in dose on a schedule that is ‘just right’ for them. For example, we have members who have reduced diazepam by 2.5% every week or so as well as individuals who reduce by 0.1mg every week or so. 

 

Also please be aware that daily microtapering is just one approach to microtapering.  Another is the ‘Brassmonkey Slide’ approach (see link below).

 

The bottom line is that each individual must discover what works for them through a process of trial and error.  There are as many different ways to taper as there are individuals and benzodiazepines.

 

Please do keep us updated — I will look forward to a post from you indicating you have reached the ‘under 5mg’ milestone.

 

Link:

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering - Tapering - Surviving Antidepressants

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17671-the-brassmonkey-slide-method-of-micro-tapering/