how do I know if I am in tolerance withdrawal

[[Ne...]]

Hello, my story is very complicated. In short I started benzos because I got akathisia coming off a different drug. First low doses which I tried to come off of but I made the mistake to highly updose (was on 0.15mg Lorazepam and took 1.5mg) while I was in withdrawal and in wrecked my brain. the akathisia went to levels I hadnt experienced before and I had to go up to 4mg Lorazepam where I have stayed for 2 1/2 months. Now suddenly I experience anxiety. I havent noticed any sedating effects past werk 2 so I am in tolerance for a while, it develops really fast with me it seems.

 

So now I am worried I am in tolerance withdrawal even though I know its rare.

I dont know what to do. Would a tiny drop help? I am also scared I develop akathisia again if I drop too much, actually I already have it again.

 

It is a really difficult situation. I wanted to become really stable before I change my meds (I also take an AD and an antipsychotic, which I was prescribed due to the original akathisia)

 

Maybe someone can help me.

[[Pa...]]

This is an explanation of tolerance and its not rare, the solution is to taper from the medication.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-information/tolerance-and-dependency/

[[Ne...]]

It says its rare to develop relative tolerance.

Is it smart to updose to a point where you dont have symptoms and withdraw from there?

[[Ne...]]

relative withdrawal I mean

[[Pa...]]

It says its rare to develop relative tolerance.

Is it smart to updose to a point where you dont have symptoms and withdraw from there?

 

I think it depends on how bad your symptoms are, if you're functional I wouldn't advise going up in dose but if you're in bad shape its an option.  Hopefully other members with experience will drop by.

 

Do you feel you're dealing with relative withdrawal or tolerance, I guess it really doesn't matter, you're miserable no matter what we call it.

[[Ne...]]

I should mention here also that upon stopping to smoke less than three weeks ago I felt the Lorazepam was working stronger, I didnt feel it before at all anymore and suddenly it sedated me again. I learned via Internet that certain benzos have a connection to smoking so in fact it was an updose. Can you develop relative withdrawal this fast after an updose?

[[li...]]

Im very unstable at 3.5 mg and dont know if going up would help because i was fine a 1 mg for  10 days,and felt okay on 3.5 for about 10 days.

[[Ne...]]

Is there any advice out there?

My anxiety stopped, it was actually probably from a drop from a different medication.

 

Instead I have developed palpitations all day long plus a vibrating feeling throughout my body. Would that be typical symptoms for tolerance withdrawal starting? Also my sleep is deteriorating.

I am considering to start a taper and hope that it is better after a cut.

Other option is to cross over to Valium and hope it settles.

 

The akathisia is gone for the moment, thats the good update. Scared to trigger it with a stupid decision though.

 

Hope there is some knowledgable people out there who can give some advice.

 

Thanks so much in advance.

[[Li...]]

To help us help you, would you please share your medication history with us?

 

What medications are your currently taking?  How long have you been taking them?  In what amounts?

 

What is your current daily dosing schedule for the lorazepam — what amount(s) do you take at what time(s)?

 

What psychotropic medications have you taken in the past?  For how long?  When and how did you discontinue them — did you taper or stop cold turkey?

 

You shared that you stopped smoking in early May 2022.  How long were you a smoker?  How did you stop smoking (e.g. taper via patch or gum, cold turkey)?

 

 

[[Ne...]]

Hello, I do my best but my medication history is very messy.

 

2010-2022 Venlafaxine (twice CT (2016 and 2020) from low doses, had to reinstate last time because of akathisia after one year)

Wellbutrin, Amitriptylin, Deanxit for brief periods after my first CT 2016 (a few weeks each)

2016-2021 Trazodone (CT no problems)

Seroquel, Mirtazapine, Zolpidem very briefly (only 3 weeks) in 2021

since 2021 (current medication)

Olanzapin 3mg (smoking affects the metabolizing of Olanzapine so I went from 5 to 3mg when I stopped smoking, I researched it a lot before, from my calculations it should have been the same dose in my blood stream)

Venlafaxine 93,75mg

since Jan 2022 Lorazepam 4mg in total 1mg taken at 8am-12pm-5pm-9pm each (before that only 0.25mg for 4 months), had to up and up because akathisia kept breaking through, dont have it now at the moment, on 4mg for 2 1/2 months

 

I changed to vaping, thats how I quit smoking cigarettes, I am still taking nicotine. I was a smoker for 18 years but mostly not a strong one until lately (2021 and 2022 have been very stressful, horrible years for me)

 

Hope that helps.

 

My symptoms are mainly strong palpitations throughout my whole body all day long as well as a strong vibrating feeling through my body. And I wake up with muscle pains.

[[Ne...]]

If I am in tolerance withdrawal how likely is it that a cut might actually help?

Lying in bed trying to sleep with pulsating and vibrating body. I am scared.

[[Pa...]]

Thanks for letting us know your medication history, I've added it to your signature.

 

How long have you held your dose of Olanzapine and what other medication are you reducing?

[[Ne...]]

I have held my dose for a month now, experienced some anxiety but that is gone. everything else I kept stable more months now, I am not reducing anything else and the last two weeks (apart of the last three days) I felt pretty good actually. I just dont see what it could be apart from tolerance withdrawal and it is getting more intense.

 

so I see my options as

1) switch over to Valium and hope that evens things out but I dont know if that works in tolerance withdrawal

2) start to cut

3) updose to a stable level and then cut

4) wait and see if it is a very late reaction to the Olanzapin drop

 

I just dont know what to do… I dont want to make a mistake

What do you guys think?

[[Li...]]

Thank you for sharing your medication history with us.  Given the length and complexity of your history, my sense is there may be a number of different factors contributing to your current distress.

 

If I were in your shoes, my inclination would be to choose option #4.  In addition to the decrease in olanzapine, you also made a change in your nicotine ‘dose’ and form.  I also wonder if your central nervous system may be destabilized/sensitized as a result of previous medication changes and cold turkey discontinuations.

[[Ne...]]

I see your point, my system is definitely sensitized/destabilized. The thing is I never in the previous horror akathisia year had this vibration feeling, it is completely new and I have changed my nicotine intake over a month ago and didnt have it, I’ve never had it before.

But if you think so I will wait a few days and then update.

Thanks for the advice.

[[Pa...]]

I hated the vibrating, I felt like I was hooked up to a car battery all the time.

 

Neon7, I wish we could say for certainty what would be best for you but the fact is we can't.  We can hazard guesses, share our experience, and we can make suggestions but the bottom line is you're the subject in this horrid experiment and only you can be the one to decide how to proceed.  Its a terrible place to be in when we're so full of fear knowing there's a good chance what we try could make things worse.  I'm so sorry you're in this place and I hope you'll let us know what you decide and how its going because while we can't tell you what to do, we can support your decisions,  empathize when you're hurting and last but certainly not least, celebrate your successes.

 

 

[[Ne...]]

Have you heard of people feeling better after a cut, I mean fully stabilizing in between cuts? I am pretty sure it is tolerance withdrawal at this point, the Olanzapine drop is too long ago and I was symptom free in between and the smoking change didnt seem to affect me at all. would be strange if it started after a month.

 

Thank you Pamster for your lovely message.. I really planned to stay put with my meds for longer to allow my brain to properly heal but it seems time is running out.

[[Pa...]]

I've seen many members stabilize between cuts but I'm not sure I'd be willing to say fully stabilize without first defining this term.  For tapering purposes, we define stability as:

 

- withdrawal symptoms are not changing (not getting worse or changing in nature)

- able to function well enough to perform essential daily tasks

[[Ne...]]

even with people who had tolerance withdrawal?

[[Pa...]]

When most people show up here they're suffering while still taking the drug, they could be in tolerance withdrawal, relative withdrawal or dealing with interdose withdrawal but to me the label isn't as important as addressing the fact that it's the drug causing all of it and the only way out is to get off of it.  I can't say for sure what's happening to you, I'm only telling what I've seen here.

 

 

[[je...]]

I've heard people say they're in tolerance and feeling better when they got lower in dose. This thread might help: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=112032.0

[[Ne...]]

I am very impressed with you all, supporting so many suffering people, seeing so much suffering. I am in awe of everyone doing it. Thank you 🙏

 

Thank you jelly baby for the thread, it is indeed helpful. 🙏

[[Ne...]]

Would the symptoms change when you are in tolerance withdrawal? I dont have the vibrating anymore but now a general body pain and sleeping issues and my skin feels like it is burning. I am at a loss about what to do, it is completely debilitating.

 

[[je...]]

I see people having different symptoms come and go whether in tolerance or normal withdrawal. I think the thing to remember is we're dealing with the brain here. It's a very complex thing so I doubt we'll ever understand how this recovery process works.

 

I'm so sorry your suffering is this intense. I wish there was more we could do. I often feel the words we have to offer feel so superficial in light of the pain. I sincerely hope you feel some relief soon.

[[Ne...]]

Thank you jelly baby for your kind words, I dont think they are empty. They cant stop the suffering but they are good for the soul health  I cant decide what action to take. I tried switching half a dose with Diazepam last night but it didnt feel good. Of course in the state that I am in I cant tell if it was really the Diazepam. I am just hesitant to switch.

I also dont really know if I have tolerance withdrawal or if this has sth to do with the akathisia returning due to lack of sleep.

In short I am in hell again and have no idea how to get out.

If it is best to wait or to act.