Just realized the severity of my situation.

[[ko...]]

Ok, guys, I'm really treading in deep waters right now.

 

Took me long enough to realize how severe the gravity of the situation actually is, but I suppose better NOW and not even later.

 

I took my first benzo about half a year ago. Back in August, I started getting access to any amount of valium, xanax or ativan I wanted. Granted, these were not prescription, so they may be underdosed (I can only hope to god they are).

 

In August I started taking an average of 2mg Xanax or 20mg Valium recreationally once a week or so, and have kept that up, going up and down in frequency going as high as three times that amount in a week, to going without anything in for a week.

 

I never experienced any symptoms of withdrawal, or memory loss, or cognitive loss, or any of the common side effects.

 

Fast forward to the end of January, I started school again and this is where my benzo addiction really flew off.

 

I was taking between 20-40mg valium on school days, with 1-2mg xanax on average weekly, as well as between 0.75 and 1.5mg of ativan on some days before bed.

 

I have kept this up ever since then, going only a few days at most without any benzos (and strangely enough, with little to no withdrawal symptoms).

 

I realize I haven't gotten through a single full withdrawal due to valium's incredibly long half life. Only now do I realize how severe this is.

 

I don't want to get doctors involved if I don't have to (very complicated).

 

I believe I can do this on my own.

 

Here is what I have left for now. I'm hoping this is enough to get me through without getting something like a fatal seizure. I think I can handle the rebound anxiety at this point.

 

I have left: 38x1mg xanax, 10x2.5mg ativan, 26x10mg Valium.

 

I have reason to believe that the valium and the ativan are underdosed, as it takes about 30mg of valium to equal 1mg of Xanax in terms of effects. 2.5mg Ativan is about 1mg Xanax  as well.

 

I have no history of seizures in my family, and have never had one, so I am not at any predisposed risk.

 

Is there any chance I can get through this alone if I go at it responsibly?

 

I have never taken xanax more than one day in a row so I do not want to go on that unless absolutely necessary.

 

I'm thinking I'll just ride out valium's half life and take another single 10mg pill if symptoms start to appear. I'll keep this up as long as I can, each time extending the duration between dosage, at which point, if absolutely necessary, I can get an  extremely low-dose prescribed and go from there.

 

 

 

I would have started much, much earlier had I realized how bad this all is. It just *never* occured to me, even though I had some decent knowledge of the subject.

 

Believe me, I'm scared enough to quit cold turkey at this point but I know it's way too dangerous.

 

What is my best case scenario here? I realize I am not superhuman, but I believe it might at least not be as bad as I'm making it out to be.

 

FWIW, at best I just want to avoid getting a seizure. Although if massive insomnia and anxiety everyone is describing here will eventually hit me, it will probably be the least of my worries.

 

Funny thing is I was feeling completetly fine before this sudden "revelation" and it instantly hit me like the worst panic attack. This is my first sleepless night in a year and I still have plenty of valium floating around in my bloodstream.

 

Why didn't I listen before.... oh god.

[[ju...]]

Hello koolkattarbtl:

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

 

Your in the right place if your searching the net on how to safely get off these meds.

 

You don't have to make a decision this very instant.  You will have to make a plan.

 

Generally speaking I would suggest you try to settle for a number of days possibly as long as 14 days on a dose that you find manageable and keeps you stable.  From there you can make a plan on how best to get off the meds and a taper schedule.

 

I found it helpful to take one dose but to divide it up into several smaller doses during the day.  This helps to keep you from going into withdrawal symptoms during each 24 hour period.

 

The MODS most experienced in making an actual taper schedule will see your post and respond.  In the interim I wanted to acknowledge your post and welcome you and encourage  you to make a plan.

 

In general a cold turkey quit will set you up in the worst possible scenerio so I would not go there!

 

juleswife

[[Co...]]

Hi koolkattarbtl,

 

Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

 

Valium is the most useful to keep taking whilst you withdraw from the other benzos. It would probably help if you detailed your most recent use of benzos (the past two or tree weeks). How regularly have been taking Valium over the past weeks?

 

Long half-life drugs take time to build up in your system, so an infrequent 'equivalent' dose of Valium will not deliver blood levels that are equivalent to a one-off dose of something like Xanax - you would require a higher dose than stated equivalent doses to deliver a similar effect under these circumstances. This is why I need to know about your recent use of benzos.

 

If you have continued to take Xanax and Ativan infrequently (say, once or twice a week), you can stop taking them - in fact, I would recommend this. Then stay with just the Valium for a couple of weeks, but at a regular and constant dose (the minimum for you to feel OK). After you have stabilised on the Valium, you can then taper off this. If your Valium dose has been erratic, you should probably take a dose nearer the low end of your dosing range. If you have continued to miss some days with Valium, then you might need a bit of help to determin a sensible daily dose to replace the erratic dosing - I'll try to help you with this.

 

Lastly, I have to mention, we are not doctors, so you should be doing under supervision of a medical professional.

[[ko...]]

Hi guys,

 

I really appreciate you all taking the time to reply.

 

I forgot to mention that I am high dose adderall and caffeine. This is why I upped my benzo dosage - they just kept me from feeling "twitchy".

 

Today I am off of all stimulants as well. I've quit cold turkey before and although it's hard the first couple of weeks, I won't have to worry about anxiety.

 

In fact, all it took was 0.25mg Xanax at about 5am this morning to cool me off completetly.

 

It's now 1:25PM, and although I have not slept yet, I feel perfectly fine. But this is probably illusory.

 

I just don't see myself experiencing any anxiety if I stop taking stimulants. It makes no sense.

 

But there is no fooling my GABA receptors. They will do what they want to do.

 

Since Valium was my benzo of choice, I thought it would be wise not to continue it for the taper.

 

Given the incredibly potent effect Xanax has on me, I think it would be a better choice for my taper. I could use up the remaining Valium and titrate it by diluting it in liquid when the Xanax runs dry.

 

0.25mg Xanax in the morning and 0.25mg in the evening feels absolutely perfect for me right now, and I can go down from there.

 

Since you guys have much more experience, do you think a 3 month taper with consistent blood levels of benzos will be enough to prevent a seizure?

 

My plan is to go backwards. See how much I have left in stock and see what the highest dosage of Xanax I can start with.

 

I can't imagine taking more than 1mg Xanax a day, I really have no tolerance to it and it knocks me right out in any amount. I just think that I have a really, really high tolerance to Valium in particular.

 

The other reason I don't think I can continue tapering with Valium is that no doctor that I know will be willing to start me out at 40mg daily. I'll be flagged immediatly and it'll be more trouble than it's worth.

 

I'll start doing some calculations now and see what I can figure out, and I will post it here.

 

I am extremely confident that my plan will work. I will keep posting updates here. I don't know what your guys' stance on nootropics are (smart drugs), but I have kept up a steady dosage of them for about 2 years, and they have all sorts of anti-convulsant and brain repairing properties that kept my clock ticking just fine. I'll also be using L-Theanine near the end of my taper as it has a potent calming effect and does not have any side effects. It works on GABA as well. (I'm a biochem major). I'm a young guy, and I'm in tip top shape. I KNOW I can bounce back with minimal sides.

 

Here's what an average school week looked like since these last 2-3 weeks, benzo-wise. I'm at my lowest amount of benzos per week right now, and feeling perfectly fine. I had a panic attack last night because of paranoia induced by other drugs which I will not be taking anymore.

 

Monday: 1.25mg Ativan before bed.

Tuesday: 10mg Valium before bed.

Wednesday: Nothing.

Thursday: 10-20mg Valium & 1.25mg-2.50mg Ativan before bed.

Friday: 2mg Xanax

Saturday: Nothing

Sunday: 10mg Valium & 1.25mg Ativan before bed.

 

I have strong reason to believe the Ativan is bunk, as it only has a mild sedative effect on me at 2.5mg, whereas 0.5mg of my friend's prescribed Ativan will knock me right out and put me to sleep. Same with the Valium to a lesser extend. The Xanax is what hits me hardest and what I have the least tolerance to. Like I said, I've never taken it more than one day in a row and 1mg will hit me extremely hard.

 

The only reason I took Valium over the others is that it was the least potent, but longest acting of all three and for some reason I really liked it over the others. The bunk Ativan I used only before bed, and the Xanax mostly for emergencies or partying.

 

I will be updating shortly. Thanks again for the help. I will not hesitate to see a doctor if things start getting out of control.

[[Je...]]

Hi Koolkatt!!

 

Welcome to benzobuddies!!  I am so glad you had your "revelation" and realize that benzos are nothing to be played with.  People just don't know how potent and addictive these drugs are!!  I see that you have a level head and a plan to get off these drugs.  Good for you!!  I wouldn't be messing with the caffeine, it really made all my symptoms worse. 

 

Love,

 

Jen

[[el...]]

Hi Koolkatt,

cute name. 

 

 

I forgot to mention that I am high dose adderall and caffeine.

 

It's not totally clear, are you still on adderall and caffeine? Or off them now?

It's so good you are getting off benzos now, and not 20 years from now! Good for you.

[[ko...]]

I just can't believe how quickly I got carried away with it. Since mine are not prescription, I treated them like "candy" and took them even when I did not need them. 

 

Sadly, I know I am not the only one out there, and there are much worse cases who don't have access to these kinds of resources to get off before it's too late.

 

Same goes for the Adderall and Caffeine. I have a love-hate relationship with caffeine. It's been my drug of choice for almost 3 years now and I have never been able to quit.

 

Last night I resolved to go cold turkey on all stimulants for exactly one year! Amphetamine withdrawal is right up there with benzo withdrawal from what I've read, but at least it will relieve most of the anxiety and insomnia, and there is absolutely no danger in going cold turkey on stims.

 

 

Week 19+: L-Theanine 200-400mg, as many times as needed for as long as needed.

Week 18: 1mg Valium x7 = 7mg weekly

Week 17: 1mg Valium x7 = 7mg weekly

Week 16: 2mg Valium x7 = 14mg weekly

Week 15: 2mg Valium x7 = 14mg weekly

Week 14: 3mg Valium x7 = 21mg weekly

Week 13: 3mg Valium x7 = 21mg weekly

Week 12: 4mg Valium x7 = 28mg weekly

Week 11: 4mg Valium x7 = 28mg weekly

Week 10: 5mg Valium x7 = 35mg weekly

Week 9: 5mg Valium x7 = 35mg weekly

Week 8: 6mg Valium x7 = 42mg weekly

LIQUID VALIUM TAPER PHASE

week 7: 0.25mg Xanax x7 = 1.75mg weekly

Week 6: 0.25mg Xanax x7 = 1.75mg weekly

Week 5: 0.50mg Xanax x7 = 3.5mg weekly

Week 4: 0.50mg Xanax x7 = 3.5mg weekly

END OF VALIUM'S ACTIVE LIFE. WILL BEGIN TAPERING HERE.

IF SIDES ARE TOO HIGH, WILL REMAIN AT THIS DOSE FOR AS

LONG AS NEEDED

Week 3: 0.75mg Xanax x7 = 5.25mg weekly

Week 2: 0.75mg Xanax x7 = 5.25mg weekly

Week 1: 0.75mg Xanax x7 = 5.25mg weekly

 

This will be the "short and not so sweet" crash taper. Just enough to prevent me from DYING, which is my main objective. 18 weeks seems like an insane amount of time, but it's better than gobbling up that same amount over a 1 month period. My main concern is the daily Xanax - something my body is unfamiliar with. I think 0.75mg daily will feel like an up-dose to my body given the low tolerance. But a plan is a plan and I'm going to have to just stick with it.

 

By the way, did anyone see the movie "Into the wild?" I watched it all as I was trying to fall asleep last night. Big mistake.  :'(

 

The 1-month mark is where I'll really be able to gauge my progress, with valium completetly out of my system I'll be relying on extremely low-dose Xanax. If that goes well, then I know the rest of the taper will be a piece of cake. Unfortunately, most of my anxiety will probably be the result of a vicious feedback-loop from being aware of the potential health risks. This is where daily meditation comes into play.

 

Hi Koolkatt!!

 

Welcome to benzobuddies!!  I am so glad you had your "revelation" and realize that benzos are nothing to be played with.  People just don't know how potent and addictive these drugs are!!  I see that you have a level head and a plan to get off these drugs.  Good for you!!  I wouldn't be messing with the caffeine, it really made all my symptoms worse. 

 

Love,

 

Jen

[[ru...]]

Hey Koolkatt!!

 

Welcome to the forum!!!

 

Hmm... stopping the Xanax at 0.75 mg a day may be problematic. That was my highest dose; I was on it regularly for only three weeks and in that short time I developed a physical dependency on it. When I started cutting my dose by .125 a week, I experienced extreme anxiety and my skin felt like it was on fire. Plus I had interdose withdrawals. So I had to go to a longer lasting benzo (diazepam) to taper off and did so.

 

It's possible that by using Xanax every day in your taper, rather than occasionally, you may end up with a dependency you don't have now. That would be unfortunate.

 

rufus

[[Co...]]

Yes, tapering the Valium after quitting the other benzos is what I would recommend. However, if your supplies are limited, then you will have to do what you have to do I guess.

 

I must say, I don't fully understand your taper plan.

[[ko...]]

Sorry for the confusion guys, my plan goes bottom to top. I starts at "Week 1", at the bottom, starting today. Obviously, finishing with the highest dose would be a bad idea.

 

I have the same concern about taking the Xanax daily, and I definietly feel some minor "rebound" anxiety of which I experience none with valium, but this problem should be eliminated with twice daily dosing, in the initial weeks (0.25mg morning, 0.50mg evening) and tapering to evening-only doses.

 

Another problem is Xanax is the only benzo that significantly messes up my sleep. I cannot get any good rest when I take it before bed, no matter what, so I'll have to time it 2-3 hours before falling asleep.

 

Oh boy... well, at least there's a good chance I'll get some decent sleep tonight, given that I have not slept at all in over 2 days.

 

The ironic thing is that these are not even WD symptoms yet, they are symptoms induced by merely THINKING about the WD.

[[el...]]

Last night I resolved to go cold turkey on all stimulants for exactly one year! Amphetamine withdrawal is right up there with benzo withdrawal from what I've read, but at least it will relieve most of the anxiety and insomnia, and there is absolutely no danger in going cold turkey on stims.

 

 

 

As far as I know, stimulant wd is no where near as difficult as benzo wd. I've done both. There may be more psychological craving though. As for emotional sx, some depression may be expected. Physical sx would include over sleeping, maybe overeating. Just think of the opposite effects of amphetamine, and there you'll have it's wd symptoms.  

[[ko...]]

Last night I resolved to go cold turkey on all stimulants for exactly one year! Amphetamine withdrawal is right up there with benzo withdrawal from what I've read, but at least it will relieve most of the anxiety and insomnia, and there is absolutely no danger in going cold turkey on stims.

 

 

 

As far as I know, stimulant wd is no where near as difficult as benzo wd. I've done both. There may be more psychological craving though. As for emotional sx, some depression may be expected. Physical sx would include over sleeping, maybe overeating. Just think of the opposite effects of amphetamine, and there you'll have it's wd symptoms. 

 

Been there. Went cold turkey after heavy ephedrine+caffeine use and stayed in bed for a couple of weeks straight. After that it was smooth sailing (and back to the caffeine addiction... which actually isn't all that big of a deal IMO, but if I'm gonna "quit all stimulants for a year", then I better do it right this time. A little coffee here and there means its right back to the morning Adderall, and back on the train we go.

 

This place is the only support I've got. I've got loving parents, but I just told them I'll be going through some rough patches getting off "some meds". I don't want to worry them too much. God knows they have enough on their plate already.

 

Has anyone actually done this successfully while going to school? People know the "drugged" me from this semester, and now nothing about what I'm really like underneath. I've got a lot of friends but they must all think I'm some bi-polar maniac. Coming in tweaked out of my mind one day and zombified the next. I'm not going to bother trying to explain any of it, I'll just observe silently. I don't think I'll want to talk to anyone for a long time anyway. It's not an anti-social thing. It's the fact that I'll be a 21 year old jock acting like I'm PMSing for the rest of the semester, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. Oh yah, this will be fun.

 

As a side note, I've been watching my blood pressure very closely since the beginning of the year and keeping track of the results.

 

I have found that my anxiety alone can bump my blood pressure from 110 to 140 mmhg in a matter of minutes. Also, as BP goes up, so does pulse STRENGTH (I can feel it jumping out of my chest), but actual pulse RATE goes DOWN. (From an average of 85 to 65). I've got a weird reverse correlation going on with that.

 

I was hoping I could keep my BP hovering around 110 after quitting stimulants, but the body, when under a lot stress will find yet another way to screw me over! Damn you!

[[Co...]]

Week 9: 5mg Valium x7 = 35mg weekly

Week 8: 6mg Valium x7 = 42mg weekly

LIQUID VALIUM TAPER PHASE

week 7: 0.25mg Xanax x7 = 1.75mg weekly

Week 6: 0.25mg Xanax x7 = 1.75mg weekly

 

You are asking for problems by this abrupt switch. As I wrote earlier, it takes time for Valium to build up in your system, so your are likely to experience significant withdrawal symptoms at the time of the switch, and the Valium will likely take weeks to build up to full blood levels for a given daily dose.

 

And, actually, if I understand correctly, you now intend to switch directly (all on one go) from Valium to an equivalent dose of Xanax for the start of your taper. Because Valium leaves the system slowly, but Xanax is at full blood levels after just a day or two of taking it regularly, you will have both the Xanax and the Valium in your system at the same time for the start of your taper. You will be boosting your total dose of benzos before you start.

 

I'll say it again. Since you already take Valium regularly, and it stays in your system for a long time, you are probably very accustomed to Valium by now. However, your use of Xanax and Ativan has been irregular and infrequent, so you are probably safe to drop them both now, straightaway. This means that (after you have adjusted to no longer taking Xanax and Ativan) you will then taper off just your Valium. Yes, you will need to obtain more Valium for your taper.

[[ko...]]

Week 9: 5mg Valium x7 = 35mg weekly

Week 8: 6mg Valium x7 = 42mg weekly

LIQUID VALIUM TAPER PHASE

week 7: 0.25mg Xanax x7 = 1.75mg weekly

Week 6: 0.25mg Xanax x7 = 1.75mg weekly

 

You are asking for problems by this abrupt switch. As I wrote earlier, it takes time for Valium to build up in your system, so your are likely to experience significant withdrawal symptoms at the time of the switch, and the Valium will likely take weeks to build up to full blood levels for a given daily dose.

 

And, actually, if I understand correctly, you now intend to switch directly (all on one go) from Valium to an equivalent dose of Xanax for the start of your taper. Because Valium leaves the system slowly, but Xanax is at full blood levels after just a day or two of taking it regularly, you will have both the Xanax and the Valium in your system at the same time for the start of your taper. You will be boosting your total dose of benzos before you start.

 

I'll say it again. Since you already take Valium regularly, and it stays in your system for a long time, you are probably very accustomed to Valium by now. However, your use of Xanax and Ativan has been irregular and infrequent, so you are probably safe to drop them both now, straightaway. This means that (after you have adjusted to no longer taking Xanax and Ativan) you will then taper off just your Valium. Yes, you will need to obtain more Valium for your taper.

 

You're absolutely right. This is sort of what I was expecting to hear all along. Starting Xanax daily is asking for trouble.

 

I'll start at 10mg Valium until I can figure out the rest. I've got 26 days at that dosage. I guess there's just nothing else I can do.

 

[[ko...]]

I just woke up today after a solid 8 hours of sleep (and none the 2 days before).

 

I definitely woke up with a feeling of unease. Like some very very mild anxiety is etched in my chest and won't leave no matter what. It seems to have no source. I am also extremely cold all the time.

 

It begins....

[[ko...]]

I just made some calculation based on my order history. I am twice as scared now.

 

I have printed out all the pertinent info I could find and am just going to go from walk-in clinic to walk-in clinic until I find a doctor that is willing to help me (I live in Canada so at least it does not cost anything).

 

If anyone has any useful advice, please help. I am going to be completetly upfront and honest with every doctor I meet about my addiction.

 

Sun 10 Feb 2008

Diazepam (Bosaurin) 30x10mg  x2  (25x10mg left, subtract from total)

Xanax 30x1mg  x2  (51x1mg left, subtract from total)

 

Sun 21 Oct 2007

Diazepam (Bosaurin) 30x10mg  x4

Ativan (Lorazepam) 20x2.5mg  x2

 

Tue 14 Aug 2007

Xanax 30x1mg  x2

Diazepam (Bosaurin) 30x10mg  x1

Ativan (Lorazepam) 20x2.5mg  x1

 

Total amount consumed Mid-October:

Valium: 185x10mg

Xanax:  70x1mg

Ativan:  60x2.5mg

Average daily consumption since Mid-October  (approx. 150 days):

12mg Valium Daily

0.5mg Daily

1mg Daily

Daily equivalence in Valium (Ashton equivalence table:  0.5mg Xanax = 10mg Valium = 1mg Ativan :

27mg Valium Daily.

 

[[Co...]]

I've not checked your figures from above, but do bare in mind that if your dosing has been erratic, you are likely to be able to settle on a daily dose significantly less than the average dose. This is especially true with erratic use of short-acting benzos. In fact, because of the pattern you reported for your use of Ativan and Xanax, you could probably work just from your average daily dose of Valium. 10mg per day of Valium could very well be all you need to stabilise! You do need to bare in mind that taking Valium EVERY day will increase blood levels a fair bit from your present situation. There is a much stronger additive effect when taking a long half-life drug.

[[ko...]]

I've not checked your figures from above, but do bare in mind that if your dosing has been erratic, you are likely to be able to settle on a daily dose significantly less than the average dose. This is especially true with erratic use of short-acting benzos. In fact, because of the pattern you reported for your use of Ativan and Xanax, you could probably work just from your average daily dose of Valium. 10mg per day of Valium could very well be all you need to stabilise! You do need to bare in mind that taking Valium EVERY day will increase blood levels a fair bit from your present situation. There is a much stronger additive effect when taking a long half-life drug.

 

That's good news. I feel fine on 10mg a day so I'll stick with that.

 

I called around and from the looks of it, no doctor will be willing to help me short of prescribing anti-convulsants.

 

I'll just ride out my remaining valium (about 24 10mg doses), or maybe think about ordering some more and continuing longer with a liquid titrate (this would have been my first line of treatement but I am broke and prices have gone up exponentially recently).

[[ko...]]

OK.

 

I think I should be ok.

 

I have secured enough valium for a safe and proper taper (thank god). The only problem is that they are all 10mg tabs but I have enough experience with converting compounds into liquid to titrate.

 

Feels like a huge load taken off of my shoulders. I will continue posting my progress here. I appreciate all the help, guys.

[[Co...]]

Let us know if you would like a titration schedule. The table removes the necessity for you to make any calculations.

[[ko...]]

Let us know if you would like a titration schedule. The table removes the necessity for you to make any calculations.

 

Thanks Colin.

 

I'm keeping it as simple as possible.

 

Starting at 13mg a day (perfectly stabilized at this dosage) and going down 1mg a week and the last week (at 1mg a week) will be held for two weeks instead of one.

 

So it will be a 14 week taper.

 

At the contrary to what everyone is saying, I have re-introduced small amounts of adderall and caffeine. Paradoxally, it has a profound anxyolitic effect on me. I think the symptoms I experienced were not benzo withdrawal but actually withdrawal to stimulants. The proof is in the puddin' - I had an oral presentation in english today and I NAILED it with almost no preparation (was too tired to do anything these past couple of days).

 

I plan to taper down the stimulant usage as well, but I will do that about at least half as slow as the valium taper.  I'll have to do more research on the effects of caffeine and convulsions. Some say its an anti-convulsant yet others say it has antagonistic actions towards diazepam. Whatever it does, it helps.

 

I don't want to stray too far off topic here, but have you guys heard of a substance called "Phenibut"? It is basically a form of GABA that is able to cross the blood-brain barrier. For some it does nothing, for others, it has an extremely profound euphoric and anxyolitic effect (but tolerance is built up ridiculously fast and you will never experience an effect as powerful as your first time).

 

Anyway, my point is, I had a run-in with this magical substance about a year ago, and have developped complete tolerance to it. Again, something to do with GABA receptors being permanantly fried. (There is speculation that long-term benzo use does this but through a different mechanism... it's not like developing tolerance to stimulants where your DA and NA receptors become sensitized... they have the ability to fully recovver, but once your GABA receptors are screwed... that's it. There is NO going back, which explains much of this "protracted withdrawal" phenomenon.

 

Anyway, the interesting thing about phenibut is that tolerance is developped even with irregular use (once a week, for instance) but there are ZERO withdrawal symptoms if you quit cold turkey, compared to benzos (unless you are taking it daily). No rebound anxiety whatsoever.

 

But I digress.... I'm really interested in finding some more in-depth explanations about how it all works. I think the model we now have is oversimplistic, and not nearly enough research is being done.

 

I believe there is potential to produce a compound that can help benzodiazepine withdrawal, but no one has the incentive to do it. Oh well.

 

Hint, hint; maybe I have found a new life mission?

[[el...]]

Anyway, my point is, I had a run-in with this magical substance about a year ago, and have developped complete tolerance to it. Again, something to do with GABA receptors being permanantly fried. (There is speculation that long-term benzo use does this but through a different mechanism... it's not like developing tolerance to stimulants where your DA and NA receptors become sensitized... they have the ability to fully recovver, but once your GABA receptors are screwed... that's it. There is NO going back, which explains much of this "protracted withdrawal" phenomenon.

 

 

Hi KoolKat,

 

Well, I don't know about this "magical" substance, but I do know this is not true of benzos. Too much research has been done, and of what I know, there is no evidence of this.

In some (very few) cases yes, there may be some long term wd sx that seem to linger, but The GABA receptors are not permanently fried or screwed!

About the longest I have ever heard of one or two "protracted wd" sx lasting, and this is not common in the least, is 2 or 3 years. And I'll bet in most of those cases there is something else going on besides a history of benzo use. 

 

Linda

[[ko...]]

Anyway, my point is, I had a run-in with this magical substance about a year ago, and have developped complete tolerance to it. Again, something to do with GABA receptors being permanantly fried. (There is speculation that long-term benzo use does this but through a different mechanism... it's not like developing tolerance to stimulants where your DA and NA receptors become sensitized... they have the ability to fully recovver, but once your GABA receptors are screwed... that's it. There is NO going back, which explains much of this "protracted withdrawal" phenomenon.

 

 

Hi KoolKat,

 

Well, I don't know about this "magical" substance, but I do know this is not true of benzos. Too much research has been done, and of what I know, there is no evidence of this.

In some (very few) cases yes, there may be some long term wd sx that seem to linger, but The GABA receptors are not permanently fried or screwed!

About the longest I have ever heard of one or two "protracted wd" sx lasting, and this is not common in the least, is 2 or 3 years. And I'll bet in most of those cases there is something else going on besides a history of benzo use. 

 

Linda

 

 

Sorry, Linda, I didn't mean to come across as "scaring" anyone, if that's the impression you got.

 

The point I was trying to make is that phenibut has a similar mechanism of action as benzos, and once tolerance is developped, it never, ever comes back. Tons of anecdotal evidence (including myself) demonstrating that even years after abstaining from phenibut use, it no longer has any kind of positive effect. The only variable being a permanant change in brain neurochemistry.

 

Likewise, many people who are addicted to benzos for years encounter problems in that they will "crave" them even years after successfully discontinuing their use. Much like former alcoholics cannot ever touch alcohol again, ever. There is something in the brain that never fully recovers, I believe, despite the fact that we are able to overcome most of the symptoms.

 

I am not saying this to bum people out, heck, I'm on the same boat as everyone else. All I'm suggesting is that there's more to GABA than meets the eye...

 

Highly recommended reading (I have not seen anyone post this yet!):

 

http://www.thebenzobook.com/benzo/pdfs/the-benzo-book10.pdf

 

 

[[el...]]

Likewise, many people who are addicted to benzos for years encounter problems in that they will "crave" them even years after successfully discontinuing their use. Much like former alcoholics cannot ever touch alcohol again, ever. There is something in the brain that never fully recovers, I believe, despite the fact that we are able to overcome most of the symptoms.

 

 

 

It's ok, KK. 

This is a place for discussion after all.

But i think the kind of problems you are talking about above relates more to someone who has taken benzos in an abusive manner, to get high, to forget, to bury feelings etc. I think at least on this forum, most of us didn't take it for that reason, therefore I don't believe there would be a a residual "craving" for it in most cases. I may be wrong. Just speaking for myself and I think for the people I have grown to know here on this forum. 

[[el...]]

By the way, thanks for the heads-up on 'Phenibut'. That stuff sounds like a nightmare!!