Updosing

[[Ja...]]

It looks like hell is breaking loose and I'm not even close to being stable yet...I think I will updose to 10mg and restart my taper from there...this is day 17 and life has just been miserable. 

 

I want off benzos, but if it takes a year and not have to go through this again, I'll just do that...

 

Jarocho

[[si...]]

hi are you talking upping your valium to 10 mg?

 

sorry things are hard for you i don't know if it is the cross over or what - but i will tell you this much - i will never recommend a cross over to valium - valium just does not appear to be easily managed by many people.

 

someone will be by to help you sort things out.

 

take care for now.

[[Je...]]

I'm sorry you are having a tough time!!  Do what you feel you need to do to stabalize.  Perhaps you are going too fast.  Slow and steady wins the race.

 

Love,

 

Jen

[[Ja...]]

Yes I was going way too fast and I'm paying a hefty price for it.

 

I re-read the Ashton Manual this morning and now I understand benzo free is not necessary the goal to have in mind when you are tapering or you'll do yourself some harm. She suggests lowering the dosage as an initial goal, then go from there as easy and comfortable as you feel.

 

Also, considering some anti-depresants, but the one that worked for me was Paxil, but it did something to my sex life that I young person (31) should not be experiencing.

 

My goal right now is to stabalize and get this aweful anxiety off my back already. Updoing to 10mg might provide enough relief to regroup and beging a new and much slower tapering schedule.

 

I gave Colin instructions to come up with a schedule that reduces 10% every 14 days, but I think I'll re-work that schedule so I can do 10% every 21 days.

 

Jarocho

[[tr...]]

I want off benzos, but if it takes a year and not have to go through this again, I'll just do that...

 

Jarocho

 

That the attitude to have.  Come hell or high water...... :thumbsup:

[[...]]

Hi Jarocho

 

You say: "I gave Colin instructions to come up with a schedule that reduces 10% every 14 days, but I think I'll re-work that schedule so I can do 10% every 21 days."

 

Why make such large cuts? Why not 5%  every 14 days. Or even less? Moving forward is all that really matters.

 

John

[[Co...]]

Hi Jarocho

 

You say: "I gave Colin instructions to come up with a schedule that reduces 10% every 14 days, but I think I'll re-work that schedule so I can do 10% every 21 days."

 

Why make such large cuts? Why not 5%  every 14 days. Or even less? Moving forward is all that really matters.

 

John

 

I didn't notice this until now.

 

5% over 14 days (equal to 10% over 28 days - 10% of a diminshing dose takes longer than 100% over 280 (28x10) days) is a very slow taper. Decreasing the taper rate from 10% over 14 days down 10% over 21 days lies between his present taper plan and the one suggest. Your are right, it is not a race, and the important thing is to get off safely and comfortably, but your suggestion might be unduly pessimistic. Jarocho, I can draw up a new schedule for you, for whatever rate you wish. Have you stuck to your original schedule so far? If so, I can draw up a new to start off from tomorrow or the day after from your present dose. 10% cut over 21 days - yes?

[[ge...]]

Jarocho,

 

After I could not stabilize at 35 mg of Valium, I updosed to 39 mg and it did nothing for me. I hope and pray updosing will work for you. It does work for many people, but I was so tolerant, it didn't much matter. Good luck to you!  Now, I have a higher dose to come down from. But, if the only reason you're symptomatic is that you tapered too quickly, then updosing might work for you.

 

Love,

Genie

[[Ja...]]

It's a tough choice to make as I yesterday I got hit real hard and updose all the way to 11.25mg 

 

Perhaps I need to make this more clear but here are my last few cuts:

Original Dosage: 15mg

Cut 1: 13.75mg On 7 days

Cut 2: 12.5mg On 7 days

Cut 3: 11.25mg On 8 days

Cut 4: 10mg On 14 days

Cut 5: 8.75mg on 14 days

 

As you can see above I made a 41.6% in 36 days (again  )

 

Now I updosed twice already this way:

 

Updose 1: 9mg On 5 days

Updose 2: 11.25mg On 1 day

 

Ok let's review this again...

 

I was starting to see windows on 9mg but YESTERDAY I got desperate and decided to updose to 11.25mg!

 

I know one day can't do much harm in the long run.

 

I was so caught up by trying to do too much while tapering including work (which I have to do), be a Dad, and deal with  :idiot: in laws who call my house to lie about stuff so I take my girlfriend either out of rehab or leave her for good (i.e. they don't like me).

 

The problem was that it was 10 days of which 10 were real bad and 10 were tolerable.  Seeing this now in the larger picture, I know I'm lucky for having  50% off on such quick taper.

 

The plan now is as follows:

 

0) Stick with the 9mg Valium

1) Keep the kids with the babysitter as long necessary

2) Work during windows (normally in the mornings)

3) Distract myself outdoors during bad times (I'm home alone and hate that during bad w/d)

4) Get my girlfriend to call each of her parents and sisters to stop messing with me

5) Pray a lot

6) Wait at least at least 10 days before reconsidering this plan

7) Get a doc to check my overall health once a month

 

I'm only doing this because I started to experience windows and got away with it for 10 days and only the last 6 have been bad enough that I thought about updosing...yet even then I still had windows and was sleeping fine (thanks for Lyrica...not endorsing as you know my feelings about this drug).

 

You guys have any opinions on this?

 

Jarocho

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ja...]]

Genie,

I just read your signature and I had to double check it because it seems like you had reached benzo freedom and now taking benzos again? What puzzles me the most is why Dr. Ashton herself would prescribe the same drugs she's so public against for long term usage?

I'm sure I'll find an answer somewhere within your blog, but what gives?

 

Yes, I believe my symptoms are due to a fast taper not because I was suffering at anywhere the level I am today...I have to admit I'm puzzled by what to do here, but if 10mg could provide a little relief within the next two weeks, that wouldn't be such a bad idea...this could avoid more ER trips, expensive babysitter, and creating more long term damage.

 

Again, I'm open to suggestions...

 

 

Jarocho

[[Ja...]]

Ok you know it's bad when I need to post three times on the same thread and I'm the only one replying 

 

But I had to rethink my plan and put things in perspective:

 

1) I've been a short term user and can benefit from an updose up to 11.25mg, here is why:

 

* I have a job and if I have symptoms going this bad any longer I'm risking a nice paying job that I do from HOME

* My kids: I have two of them and I don't want them to go to the babysitter any longer (they'll go to day care and that's enough)

* A girlfriend who is in rehab from meth addiction. I need to inspire him not have her worry about my health and lose track of her own recovery.

* In the long run I will only be losing a couple of months in my taper and will increase my chances of keeping my job going for next year and continue recovering.

* More importantly: Since Sept. 07, I made lots of progress and have cut my dosage from 30mg to 11.25mg and that's huge in my book.

* Peace of mind: I had too many consecutive bad days and that is not suppose to happen during a slow taper, so I'm backing off the big cuts and making smaller ones from this point forward. 

 

 

In summary, a lot of things are at stake here and I don't want to risk losing them due to my stuborness. It's not a race anyways!

 

 

Jarocho

[[si...]]

so you are at 9 mg now - and at 9 mg you did have windows?

 

holding at 9 mg sounds like a good idea - if that is where you had relief hold it.

 

as far as being harassed you don't need it - focus on yourself and your children - the rest is all expendable - if people don't like it - don't answer the phone or door.

 

it is your life you control it.

[[Ja...]]

Silver,

I WAS at 9, but no more! Enough...20 days without relief was all I could take. I'm updosing to 11.25mg.  I know it will take a few days to feel better, but I took the 11.25mg yesterday and today had tolerable symptoms already.

 

Windows in hell aren't windows...in the pain scale of 1-10, it meant having pain and axiety at 6 instead of 9 or even 10!

For 20 days? No thanks, I'll back off this one and start a slower schedule from 11.25mg down.

 

As stated before, I went too fast anyways, so overall I don't see myself losing too much ground anyways.

 

The plus side is that I can get Valium here by just paying the consultation fee ($15) and I'm out the door to get a new 90 10mg batch. This is good for me because I don't have to give speeches or prepare any documents for the doctor to prescribe it. Plus they have seen me there enough times to know that I suffer from "anxiety disorder" (good one to tell them), but I want off slowly while I get my therapy (another good one).

 

There was a lot of pressure from people and family members to get off this stuff that's why I was in the hurry mode, but at least my niece is now on my side and I'm sure cried when I told her last night I couldn't take it anymore. She read the Ashton Manual and this morning, she stopped talking about quitting cold turkey and even encourage me to go slower 

 

Also the goal was to be stable and I knew that even at 10mg I was going to suffer, so for now being stable is the goal even if it goes against Dr. Ashton's own words, but again she herself said "this is not the last word on benzos", so I hope that on the next update she covers updosing as an option as the point here is to w/d while still having a life.

 

Btw, I read ampersand's COLD TURKEY and couldn't believe it.  I would be jumping off buildings if I did that, but to each his own...no more people pressuring me or telling me how to taper...I'm in control of my own taper damn it!  LOL

 

Jarocho

[[Je...]]

Amen Jarocho!!  Only you know how you feel and what you can tolerate and what you can't.  You are in control!!

 

Love,

 

Jen

[[Ta...]]

Jarocho,

 

You are absolutely right - follow your instincts! We all need to be careful not to get into the trap of "have to keep going down at any cost".

 

Hope you get some relief soon! 

 

Tanya

 

 

[[si...]]

i was re-reading ampers thread today to.

amper does not have the pressures that you have and he has experience.

[[Ta...]]

Yes, we are all sooo different and in different circumstances. I couldn't have cut 1/2 of klono (like you did 1/2 of ativan) without dying (I think). 1/8 sent me to hell.

[[si...]]

i had no responsibilities - no pressure no one depending and no one whose expectations i had to live up to.

[[Ja...]]

Well, the good of Valium far outweights the bad, but the long half life does make it tricky to know when it's ok to cut because one may not feel the cut until a week later or even more.

I also understand that this is day two and I need to wait at least another 8 or so days to have the updose build up into my system.

 

Don't expect miracles from this updose, but I do expect tolerable symptoms that can allow me to feel sane for a change...

 

Jarocho

[[ge...]]

Jarocho,

 

I hope the updosing works for you. It didn't work for me for longer than a few days, since I hit tolerance again. But, we are all different, and I don't have the responsibilities you have. Your rationale for updosing made sense to me, and only you can know what your body can tolerate. With a job, kids and a girlfriend going through rehab, you have a lot on your plate. I would not wait longer than three weeks before cutting again, if you stabilized at 11.25 mg. Maybe you came down from 30 mg too quickly. Good luck to you, and we're in your corner no matter what you decide.

 

Love,

Genie

[[Ja...]]

A quick review of benzo history:

Started at 3mg Ativan

Cut to 2.5mg within a week

Cut to 2.0mg the next week

Cut to 1.75mg the next week

Cut to 1.5mg the next week

Cut to 1.25mg and hit the wall (tingling on my scalp started here and still there)

Updosed back to 1.5mg and stayed there for about a month

Crossover to 15mg Valium and felt sedated

and so on...

 

When I was tapering off Ativan I was under the care of a "shrink" so that's why I was tapering so fast. It was very difficult, but I never knew I could be on benzos today because of just plain ignorance and doctors saying I can cut my dosage by 25% every week until off.

 

Then there is that extra pressure from family members and relatives to stop reading stuff on the Internet and cold turkey this sucker already.

 

Just month ago I used to talk about my benzo issue to almost anyone, but now I hardly mention it because I know people don't understand one bit of it.

 

My niece is the closest person that gets it, but then again she's a hard core Christian and she thinks I should believe more in God and have more faith and then God might do a miracle for me. 

 

Another Christian person told me to start talking in tongues because that will mean I'm one with the Holy Spirit and then I can also cold turkey my benzo.

 

And it's just not religious people who say these things, but I'm sure people who think they are stronger than meds and have been able to withdrawal from anti-depresants and suffered for 1-2 weeks and it was over. 

 

A smoker told me that he had 3 days that were real bad after he quit and so if he was able to quit smoking I should be able to quit benzos too!

 

This is worst one of them all...

 

A former benzo head who runs a rehab center told me that she cold turkey benzos, but that was 14 years ago and I can tell that today she's still not doing great. She has poor memory and a bad temper and wants me to follow her?

 

I'm sure you all have had these encounters, so my  goes out to you because I UNDERSTAND.

 

Jarocho

 

 

 

 

[[TP...]]

Ooohhh la la la la la!!! :2funny: OK. I'm better now! Oh man! And the smoker! (Holding my sides laughing.) Quitting smoking is so easy compared to benzos. Man, People just have no idea at all. 

 

T

[[Mi...]]

Jarocho,

 

People who have never been on benzo's or tried to get off them can NEVER understand what we are going through. I've heard the following:  I don't have enough faith, I'm not trusting God, I must not really want to quit, I must have a mental problem, (was fine mentally before benzo's btw,) I must be depressed, and on and on.  I have often had this really evil thought that I wish some of these people would become accidental addicts and then see what withdrawal is like.  BUT, I would not wish benzo w/d on my worst enemy.  I just want someone to understand what I'm going through, ya know?

 

Hang in there.

 

Love,

Missy

[[TP...]]

Jarocho,

 

People who have never been on benzo's or tried to get off them can NEVER understand what we are going through. I've heard the following:  I don't have enough faith, I'm not trusting God, I must not really want to quit, I must have a mental problem, (was fine mentally before benzo's btw,) I must be depressed, and on and on.  I have often had this really evil thought that I wish some of these people would become accidental addicts and then see what withdrawal is like.  BUT, I would not wish benzo w/d on my worst enemy.  I just want someone to understand what I'm going through, ya know?

 

Hang in there.

 

Love,

Missy

 

Amen!

[[...]]

I love your posts because they seem to capture the essense of this nightmare we are going through. As a treatment to help them  I'd like to put any of those self proclaimed counselors though a single week of benzo cold turkey withdrawal...especially the doctors....they should get a year.

 

I quit smoking many times in my life...but I have never quit benzo dependance once. Aren't in the same universe.

 

Overly religious people are well-meaning, but often times are not acknowledging the realities of life. Give them one day of above treatment.

 

Benzo's people who have quit and therefore should give you good advice, but then lie and say it's a piece of cake, should get a treatment of one month.

 

Hang in there compadre, you are full of satire and humor..a good sign.

 

INB