Starting Liquid Taper Soon

[[Dr...]]

Thanks to this great community for helping me troubleshoot early problems with my liquid titration solution.

 

My doses are now as follows:

1 dose = .375mg = 1mL liquid.

daily total = 1.125mg = 3mL liquid

 

doses:

9am .375mg = 1mL liquid.

2pm .375mg = 1mL liquid.

7pm .375mg = 1mL liquid.

 

the 1mL syringe has markings every .02 mL (2% of dose).

 

I forgot what page refers to it the speed limit, but I think it's like no more than 10% every 10-14 days?

 

2 candidates:

 

Plan 1:

 

Day 1  .98mL, 1.00mL, 1.00mL (-.07% per day)

Day 2  .98mL, .98mL, 1.00mL

Day 3  .98mL, .98mL, .98mL

 

That will take me 150 days*

 

Plan 2

 

If I reduce all 3 doses simultaneously and skip a day in between

Day 1  .99mL, .99mL, .99mL (-1% per day)

Day 2  .98mL, .98mL, .98mL

 

That will take me 100 days*

 

*barring the inevitable bumps along the way.

 

Anyone have any opinions, references, links, or advice?

[[Li...]]

I found it helpful to have a very specific schedule to start out.

 

Once I got comfortable with making a suspension and drawing doses, I adjusted my rate of reduction from time to time. When things were going pretty good, I did speed up a bit (not a lot though). When I was going through a rough time, I made super tiny cuts - like .01 ml = .001 mg. My thinking was that I could tolerate a tiny cut and those would add up day by day especially combined with regular cuts.

 

Whatever works is the best plan. That varies for each of us.

 

Your plan looks solid. You may ride that all the way. Or, you may make some adjustments (up or down or steady) as needed. The main thing is to keep chipping away.

 

I hope you will have a smooth taper. Just hang tough. You can do this.

[[Ji...]]

My doses are now as follows:

1 dose = .375mg = 1mL liquid.

daily total = 1.125mg = 3mL liquid

 

doses:

9am .375mg = 1mL liquid.

2pm .375mg = 1mL liquid.

7pm .375mg = 1mL liquid.

 

the 1mL syringe has markings every .02 mL (2% of dose).

 

I forgot what page refers to it the speed limit, but I think it's like no more than 10% every 10-14 days?

 

2 candidates:

 

Plan 1:

 

Day 1  .98mL, 1.00mL, 1.00mL (-.07% per day)

Day 2  .98mL, .98mL, 1.00mL

Day 3  .98mL, .98mL, .98mL

 

That will take me 150 days*

 

Plan 2

 

If I reduce all 3 doses simultaneously and skip a day in between

Day 1  .99mL, .99mL, .99mL (-1% per day)

Day 2  .98mL, .98mL, .98mL

 

That will take me 100 days*

From a mere figures stand point:

Plan 1 is about 9.3% reduction/14 days

Plan 2 (with the 1 day hold after 14 days) is about 13% reduction/14 days

Both fit the general recommendations to reduce between 5%-10% every 10-14 days.

 

But is the mere percentages really the source of your unsettling symptoms? I would have a few doubts I want to share with you.

 

1. The preparation of the solution

The idea behind is to use a minimum quantity of ORA-Plus to prepare your solution. By its viscosity, it will keep the particles of your tablet, previously reduced to fine dust by yourself, suspended in the solution. Without this suspending agent, by gravity those particles after some time will sink to the bottom of the jar. And although you may vigorously shake the bottle before use, not always you will be able to get the right benzo quantity in what you draw up if the solution is too "thin". You can of course use 100% of ORA-Plus like you do for your solution but you don't need to. Besides the fact to be buying more ORA-Plus you are swallowing more chemicals than needed. So possibly keep ORA-Plus between 50-60% of the total volume while the rest is water+other inactive ingredients you wish to add.

 

2. The "suspended" ORA-Plus solution

I risk to repeat myself. Many buddies experienced drop of benzo effect by switching from all tablets to all liquid. But it appears also that while buddies using "DISSOLVED" solution seem to be less impacted with this phenomenon, buddies using "SUSPENDED" solution like in your case frequently reported something like a real drop of effect. Benzo/antidepressant different sites talk about a loss of about 5%-10%. But I have read in BB about buddies having the feeling to have done a cold turkey.

 

The reasons of this drastic reduced bioavailability is to be found between the loss of the enteric coating used as a barrier to protect the benzo inside the tablet, once this one is reduced to powder. The second is the gastric agression by the stomach, chemical and mechanical, against something it qualifies as food, while we might see in a ORA-Plus based solution just a "dense" liquid. After been worked by the stomach benzo arrives "battered" and reduced in the small intestine where it is absorbed in the blood stream.

 

So again, yes with the ORA-Plus based liquid but introduce it gently. Wherever you can, integrate your daily dose with tablet. Only the cut part will be liquid.

 

All the best!

[[Li...]]

I agree wholeheartedly with Lilyann — “Whatever works is the best plan. That varies for each of us.”

 

There is no “one-size-fits-all” approach to tapering.  Each of us has to discover (via experimentation) what works for us in terms of reduction amount and interval given our unique physiology, the properties of the particular benzodiazepine we take, where we are in our taper (i.e., beginning, middle, end) as well as other factors.

 

Lilyann also has made an important point about the need to make adjustments during a taper.  Examples of adjustments include changes in drug (as in substitution), method, and drug format as well as in reduction amount and/or interval.

 

Sending all best wishes your way for a successful taper ... Libertas

[[Dr...]]

Thanks for the validation and encouragement Libertas and Lilyann.

 

Jim Hawk, my taxed benzo brain needs to read your great information over and over to really absorb it (It's mildly frustrating that my brain used to be so sharp and quick... now any more than a paragraph of technical info starts to turn into gibberish).  That said I'm thankful for really educated people like you and others here that taught me so much about this journey in just the several weeks I've been on here.

 

I think I'm going to stick with the 100% oroplus solution from here forward because a) even trying to cut the pills in any way causes them to shatter and crumble, therefore negating any type of accuracy I'm trying to achieve and b) I think my body is very quickly adjusting to the solution I've made, so that's good.  (The biggest problem with my solution I discovered was not shaking the it before dosing + extracting from the top of the solution, giving me virtually 0% ativan for about 2 days)

 

Also, my PsyD offered to refill my Rx with liquid ativan that a compounding pharmacist can dilute into whatever strength I want, so I may take him up on that.

 

 

 

 

[[Li...]]

If you can get a compounded solution and can afford it, I think that would be ideal. Making it from scratch can be quite stressful. There are also the "unknown" factors, since no one is testing and double checking homemade mixtures. All in all, buying a mixture made by professionals is great but not possible for many. I'm glad you will have that option.