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It's official, it's not withdrawal, it's a brain injury.


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So I sent a list of about 100 symptoms to my medical doctor not long ago, and she reviewed it and agreed it is a brain injury, because of how my brain chemicals were altered and how long it has been going on. She said there's no telling how long it can go on and there's nothing that can be done about it, so that's why it is a brain injury. There was no specific name for it. And then I told my therapist about it, and she agreed it is a temporary brain injury. She did not think it would be permanent though. And then I ask my pharmacist about it, and he said he would have only expected it to go on a couple of months at the most, anything after that is a brain injury or pre-existing condition. So that's three professionals all at the same time here at the beach saying it's a brain injury, which means it is. Something I never did before getting off of pills, was listen to doctors but now I am. So I took this new info and gave it to an attorney here in North Carolina, and they are going to start a process to either sue my old doctor that prescribed the medicine, or Genentech, the makers of clonazepam. They are working during coronavirus and trying to figure out what the best route to go is. So right now I'm waiting on money from Social Security Disability which has not been approved yet, and housing through Trillium program for mental health, and hopefully getting some kind of reimbursement for medical bills and suffering and time out of work, possibly permanent. Also for other things that happened I can't talk about on here, having to do with depression. So, it looks like everything is working out for the long run. But I'm so used to saying benzo withdrawal, I'm going to have a hard time not saying it's withdrawal, and now saying that it's a brain injury.
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You do realise in the unlikely even you can take someone to court that they will use your drinking g etc against you and it will be pointless.

 

And yes, it is a brain injury.

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If you want to do the lawsuit route, you would be better represented to do a class action lawsuit ( you and many other ppl affected by the drug). Drug companies have deep pockets ($$$), and they in the past have just dragged out litigation so that the good guy runs out of time and money and give up pursuing it anymore.

 

I applaud you for having the fire in you to want to do this - but it will be quite the battle.

 

And I agree with ajusta ...they will throw everything from your past in your face to make you look like an incompetent person, and then use any other substance you may have used to say that those substances may have been the cause and not necessarily the K.

 

I am sorry. Just wanted to prepare you for what may lie ahead.

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I saw in "Medicating Normal" that you cannot sue a drug company over a drug once it has gone into generic status. It seems that it is futile and a waste of time and money going after these drug companies. (one of the subjects consulted a lawyer to sue over clonazepam)

 

Your best bet is to elect politicians who do not take BIG PHARMA money. Maybe then they will change the laws in favor of justice and fairness for us.

*steps off soapbox

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It's interesting that so many docs and others realized it's a brain injury.  It's also a full body CNS injury as well, in my case.
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Yes. And I’m trying to be grateful because for us It’s not permanent. Some people have permanent brain injuries with little hope of fully recovering. They’d kill to be us. So I’d rather focus on how goddamn grateful I am that my symptoms have gotten 90% better in the last 2 years.

 

Does it make this happening ok? Fuck no. It’s so wrong, what happened to us. It will never be ok.

But should we also focus on the fact that it gets better? Absolutely.

 

If I saw a class action lawsuit commercial on tv for this, I’d sign up and tell my story. That’s probably your best bet. Get a giant group of people to sue collectively.

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Well first off, I agree of course there's going to be an argument from the other side. But there's nothing for them to say I did wrong. It was my choice to get off of them, and I didn't have any drugs or alcohol in my system.

 

And yes, people do win against big Pharma all the time. Big Pharma pays out tons and tons of money every day just about. And I don't care about somebody on medicating normal to be honest. They have nothing to do with me, and everybody's story is different. Also, I wasn't taking psychiatric medicine like them, I was taking neurological medicine. So for those of you being positive, I appreciate it. There's nothing to be scared of, and there's no reason not to do it. All I have is time on my hands. And the reason I have time on my hands, is because of the medicine. So everything works in my favor and works against them.

 

Yeah, normally doctors do that. They normally try to blame me for anything that doesn't go your way, and use doing things wrong against you. But in this case, Klonopin was prescribed to me from 2018 until 2019. I did not have any drugs or alcohol in my system during that time. I was prescribed an extremely large dose, 16 half milligram tablets a day. That's eight milligrams a day. And it was prescribed for over 4 weeks, almost an entire year. So that was too long.

 

If I had pre-existing mental health conditions, they should not have prescribed them because I ended up in the hospital multiple times from them. But it was prescribed for neurological reasons, not psychiatric reasons. So I think everything that happened which ended me up in the psychiatric hospital was completely due to the Klonopin. But if I really had been extremely depressed, they should not have been prescribing a depressant.

 

I ended up calling up my doctor and telling them I wanted to be off of my meds. We talked through the phone and over the Internet for several months trying to figure out the best route of getting off of them. They were making me suicidal at the time. So it was very important that I got off of them immediately. It was my decision to get off of them, not the doctors.

 

And then really bad things happened because of them. And then I was in the hospital multiple times again and eventually discharged home because they couldn't figure out any other meds that worked. And now, I'm really close to being back to normal. So because of that, the doctor prescribed meds incorrectly and the way they should not have.

 

So that's a problem on the doctors part. If for some reason it's not the doctor's fault, that means it's the pharmaceutical company's fault. I didn't have those problems on valium, just clonazepam. So the way the lawyer described it was it's not an auto accident but you still have to go after the insurance company. In my case, the insurance of the doctor. Or possibly Insurance of Genentech. Of course they're not going to pay out millions or anyting, but they would gladly pay some medical bills and rent and stuff as opposed to Millions. That's what they do, they pay out little bits of money in hopes that they don't get sued. That's why it's called an insurance settlement. And I'm going after it.

 

It's not like I'm asking for money Beyond what they owe me. Just the hundreds of thousands that they do. Legit bills. And if there was more people involved, it would be really easy to do a class action as well I'm sure. A few months ago I inquired about that on here, but I was told I can't share information on here. So the moderator edited my post. I don't know how anybody on here is ever supposed to accomplish that, maybe there's another way to do it. But if I have success, I can always post their information. There's no rules on here against posting my lawyers information. So I will keep you guys up to date.

 

I have a couple of lawyers in Florida reviewing my case and a couple of here in North Carolina and I had reached out to some others as well but some of them are saying they can only practice in the same state that they reside. Either way, my doctors are on my side and the company can't go against medical doctors, and the company can't tell the pharmacist and therapist that they are wrong either.

 

So that's three professionals going against whoever wants to make an argument on their side.

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Yes. And I’m trying to be grateful because for us It’s not permanent. Some people have permanent brain injuries with little hope of fully recovering. They’d kill to be us. So I’d rather focus on how goddamn grateful I am that my symptoms have gotten 90% better in the last 2 years.

 

Does it make this happening ok? Fuck no. It’s so wrong, what happened to us. It will never be ok.

But should we also focus on the fact that it gets better? Absolutely.

 

If I saw a class action lawsuit commercial on tv for this, I’d sign up and tell my story. That’s probably your best bet. Get a giant group of people to sue collectively.

 

Hi Meganz,

 

Please familiarize yourself with our forum rules concerning the use of profanity, thanks.

 

Rules and Guidelines

 

Pamster

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Pamster, I don't mind profanity and it's my post, so she is just fine.

 

Hi JustInTime,

 

I'm glad you're not offended but some will be and the forum rules specifically point out it is against them.

 

Pamster

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It's interesting that so many docs and others realized it's a brain injury.  It's also a full body CNS injury as well, in my case.

 

Same. It’s cns injury, brain injury, cellular mitochondrial injury, muscle injury, bone injury.....

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Please let us know if you have luck. Make sure to alert the media too. I hope everyone finds out about the brain injury that can occur.
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Does it make it [doctors prescribing benzos] ok? Fuck no. It’s so wrong, what happened to us. It will never be ok.

 

...

 

Hi Meganz,

 

Please familiarize yourself with our forum rules concerning the use of profanity, thanks.

 

Rules and Guidelines

 

Pamster

 

Too many damn rules! Megan's use of profanity to express moral outrage is perfectly reasonable. Grow up, forum!

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It's interesting that so many docs and others realized it's a brain injury.  It's also a full body CNS injury as well, in my case.

 

Same. It’s cns injury, brain injury, cellular mitochondrial injury, muscle injury, bone injury.....

 

Yes we are going through it all ,  hope it's really a temporary thing  that might also explain medical community non seriousness towards us

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You are absolutely correct, what we have is BRAIN INJURY.  it is not really withdrawal, that would be over in a week or two.  We are NOT ADDICTS, we developed a tolerance and dependency to a dangerous drug.

However, I had tried to get Social Security disability several years ago.  I stopped working at age 55.  I really could not longer work.  I had mental confusion among other things.  My husband was still working and making excellent money, and I was able to start collecting a small pension I had earned.  Because I no longer could work, I applied for Social Security Disability.  I was rejected.  I was told that many applicants are rejected for this federal benefit unless they are EXTREMELY severe cases, like someone who is paralyzed in an accident, for example.  I then contacted an attorney who took my case with just a small retainer, as he would then get a percentage of the money I would get for the first year. Well, I went to court here in Buffalo, New York and was rejected again.  I would have gotten $1400 per month, the amount of my social security I would have gotten at age 66, the highest amount.  My next door neighbor also apply for SS disability and got rejected the first time.  She then got a lawyer and went to court. With the help of the lawyer, she got her benefits, but SHE HAS MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS, and has no chance of ever getting better.  The lawyer had the testimony of several doctors who said her disease has progressed, drug therapy helps somewhat, but she has NO CHANCE of recovering.

Our situation with BENZOS is very different.  Most people do recover eventually.  It is not PERMANENT brain damage, thank God. According to your signature, it looks like you are still in your 30s. In my opinion, you will probably not get Social Security Disability, even with a lawyer. This is just my experience, but it was a lot of paper work, going to lawyer's office, going to a hearing, and really a big hassle for nothing. 

I REALLY considered suing the THREE doctors, one a family practice primary doctor who gave me my first benzo, ATIVAN, in 2001.  The other two were psychiatrists, one who continued to give me 4 mg of Ativan per day for 12 months and told me there was no problem, the other who continued to prescribe it for me for another SIXTEEN YEARS!!!  I researched this website and others, and as far as I could see nobody in the United States has ever won a lawsuit against a doctor.  Some have tried, but have only met with frustration and expense.

So what can you do?  That is a difficult question.  We know that healing will come, but it takes time.  It may take several more years for you, but you WILL GET BETTER, YOU WILL HEAL.  What do you do for money until then?  You cannot work, that is for sure.  Do you have a spouse or perhaps parents or siblings that will let you live with them while you recover? My husband pays the bills, does the grocery shopping, drives me to medical appointments and the hairdresser, basically is my caretaker. I can shower, get dressed, do a little bit of cooking and cleaning, go for a walk or exercise on a good day, but that is all.  I have not driven a car in about three years. I am 20  months off benzos after a one year gradual taper.  I will probably be like this for at least another year. 

Good luck to you, God bless, don't give up.  I hope you have a spouse, parent, sibling, or friend that will help you until you are whole again!!!

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Does it make it [doctors prescribing benzos] ok? Fuck no. It’s so wrong, what happened to us. It will never be ok.

 

...

 

Hi Meganz,

 

Please familiarize yourself with our forum rules concerning the use of profanity, thanks.

 

Rules and Guidelines

 

Pamster

 

Too many damn rules! Megan's use of profanity to express moral outrage is perfectly reasonable. Grow up, forum!

 

Hello Hypatia17,

 

Thank you for your input, the comment I'm about to make is to you, not to Meganz who as far as I know accepted my gentle reminder or has not yet seen it.

 

How is it a sign of "growing up" or maturity to use profanity on a forum in which the rules were clearly stated and agreed to by each and every member who joined?  How is it a sign of "growing up" to allow the debasing of our discourse?  How is it a sign of "growing up" to use words offensive to others when there are so many others available to us all?

 

I don't want nor expect a response to my post, what I do want is your cooperation in respecting your fellow members and the rules of this privately owned and volunteer staffed forum.

 

Pamster

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Yeah the whole disability thing is a wreck, I completely agree. But I have started to realize it's not the actual Social Security Administration that's the problem, it's the people representing us not knowing how to do their jobs. I applied in 2011 because of a broken ankle and injured back. And I also had my mental health stuff but I didn't have any of the mental health stuff turned in to Social Security. So they just kept denying it over and over, and I would be in and out of hospitals and everything else over the years and they just kept saying it wasn't severe enough. Well fast forward to this year, in 2020. I went to court last year and I got denied this year. But I read the judge's explanation on the denial, it's because all he had was negative stuff from detox hospitals stating that I had substance problems. When in all reality, I didn't, I had a long list of outpatient providers stating that I never had a substance problem. So he was using that against me, even though all he had was the detox records. So I had to gather all of my medical records from outpatient medical providers and mental health providers, and I had to take a form to my doctor for them to fill out stating that I'm permanently disabled. You can get temporary disability, they do it in increments. It can be 4 years or it can be 7 years or it can be permanent. In my case, I have been struggling with the same mental health conditions since the age of 17 years old and it only gets worse, not better. So on the mental health capacity worksheet that my provider filled out, it states the prognosis is Lifetime. Everything is severe and extreme and the prognosis is a lifetime. My back injuries and neurological problems are also included with all of the new documentation submitted on my appeal. So now they have everything that they need, neurological, back and spine, and mental health records from the age of 17 until 36. And right now it's in Falls Church Virginia at the federal Appeals Council, and all they have to do is look at why the judge is wrong which we also wrote a letter explaining why, and included all of the evidence, AKA medical records. Now it will get approved permanently most likely. It's not going to be much, maybe like a thousand bucks a month or a little bit more. But that's better than nothing. And I also got approved for Trillium housing, which is an extra thousand bucks a month. That was also approved using the same documentation. So when you combine the two, that's a couple Grand a month. And once your disability gets approved, there's also SSI on top of SSDI. But you have to have disability first, and then you can get supplemental security income which is an extra few hundred bucks. So then you're looking at 2500 or 3000 a month. Of course, if your mental health improves and you are capable of going back to work, or if you work over substantial gainful activity any given month or year that you are disabled, they will reassess it and cut you off and you will be required to work like everybody else. But it's really not what everybody makes it out to be, it's not as complicated as people think. It's just that it's next to impossible to know what you're doing when you apply and nobody else knows what they're doing either, even lawyers. I had to fire my first lawyer. They did a horrible job representing me so I got a new one here in North Carolina. The first one was from Illinois and thought they knew everything but they didn't know anything at all. Needless to say my life was almost ruined completely because of them. But now I know what I'm doing and because of the new records submitted as well as my old records from 17 years old forward until now at 36 years old, it will be approved I'm sure. And as far as right now, I got very lucky that my family cares enough to pay for a winter rental that was only half of what rent usually is, because landlord can't get anything during the winter in North Carolina at the beach. And they didn't want me to be homeless again, they didn't want me to ruin my body and mind anymore than it already is, so they stepped in. But we are hustling these places like Trillium and Social Security trying to get them to do their jobs quickly because they are slacking on the paperwork. But I think everything will work out in the end. If I had any advice for you on disability, it's get those medical records from your past and also current because current is the most important, and make sure your doctor support you because if they don't, most likely they will turn it down. It's because they only look at what's on paper because that's all they have to go on. Imagine if you were the judge, you would only see what was submitted to you and you would have to make a decision based on that. I got really upset at the judge when I got denied and wished bad things on him and all kinds of stuff because I was going through withdrawal, even though I really didn't if you know what I mean. I guess you could say I was being dramatic. But I was really pissed and going through a really rough times through withdrawal. And then when things started to clear up in my mind, I started to realize he had a good point and that's exactly why it was denied, because he was looking at all kinds of crap from the first lawyers submitting useless detox records. Now the federal level Appeals Council will get the correct picture and make the correct decision. Remember, everything is on paper and on video These Days, so it has to add up. Unfortunately, it's like proving your innocence. But they can't just go off your word, if they did, imagine the types of people that would get it.
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I believe it is like a brain injury, and hopefully a temporary one; I also agree it is a CNS injury, a gastrointestinal injury, etc. I also have the perspective of having actually had a brain injury in the past. Fortunately, mine was not "severe" enough for me to not recover and go back to doing life things after a while. But I agree there are people out there with brain injuries so severe that they never even regain consciousness or talk/walk and that I'd rather be me, coping with drug injury.

 

What I will say is that my sense of despair at the time of that other (car accident) brain injury was that I had similar thoughts: "I will never get better." "I am damaged." The despair was big. The difference was that I saw much more rapid progress in my healing. A physical injury like from an accident is more concrete and can show up on a scan. It is also likely to garner more understanding from others. I spent years being angry at the other driver but have since forgiven him.

 

I find myself also saying I have a drug-induced brain injury and have outrage at the pharmaceutical industry; at the same time, I can only move forward and work on healing however I can. Some people find activism to be very healing, so if finding a way to sue feels healing, then do it. If it does not seem healing to you and only entrenches you more in despair, then that is a distinction only you the individual can make.

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Yeah both you and another member earlier pointed out the fact that it might be detrimental instead of beneficial. And I really did have too much stress yesterday because I was trying to tackle too much at once. So I'm going to slow my roll a little bit, but I'm still going to research things since I'm on the internet all day anyways just about. And I was thinking about what you said with the car accident brain injury, how it shows up on scans. I'm pretty sure benzo withdrawal would also show up on scans. If I went and got an MRI, I don't think it would be normal. But I'm pretty sure nobody on benzo buddies has gotten an MRI during this process for that reason. Or maybe they have who knows.
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Here are some medical and scientific folks who understand what we go through, I hope you watch it, it's good stuff.
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People with ptsd have abnormal “functional MRIs”, so maybe benzo people will to. I’m pretty sure regular mri will be normal unless there is major structural change, a mass, or cut in blood supply aka stroke, all of which Benzos don’t cause.
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Would that be the white spots that have recently shown on my latest mri’s..??

-Perhaps why they want me to have a check up one done now..

:(

 

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